Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[Conn]

So...that trade tip yesterday was no good, huh? Or was it supposed to happen today? Man.

[Spooky]

Yet another useless thread started by Ryman to take the opportunity to attack the front office. We get it Ryman: you hate Snyder, Shanahan, and Allen.

[paloosa]

I was a big Haynesworth support until I heard that he took the money then asked for a trade. In my opinion he is wrong and deserves all the criticism he is getting. I can't say that it is all his fault because something had to be said by Snyder to make him believe he wouldn't be playing out of position. So both sides are to be blamed here and Shanahan offered a solution to the problem by allowing him to seek a suitable trade partner before he would receive his bonus. He never found one and took the bonus which said he would be a Washington Redskin.

You don't take money from any company then quit without having to pay it back because that is called a breach of contract. How can a guy that doesn't show up for a mandatory mini camp, after taking a signing bonus that says you are on this roster to play, expect to keep the bonus and leave? He hasn't lived up to his end of the contract either. He is basically making $2.66 per game based on only playing in 12 games last season. No one in the history of the game has been paid that. I don't care what his contract says about the signing bonus or what type of defense the Redskins are running, unless it specifically states that he will never play in a 3-4 defense then he needs to come in and report for camp. Don't trade him and make him honor his contract just like you would at any company. He has little support from any of his teammates or any of his previous teammates which doesn't bode well for his trade prospects. I guess he will be saying hello to TO.

[Conn]

So...that trade tip yesterday was no good, huh? Or was it supposed to happen today? Man.

Hmmm...nevermind, looks like espn thinks something is going on...

[Ryman of the North]

It doesn't surprise me the people who are aligning with you .

The mob mentality you talk about is nothing compared to the asshattery that spewed bile against Jason Campbell who did nothing but try to be the consumate professional and good team mate .

Albert Haynesworth is in no position to dictate terms . He is a player, a cog, in a much bigger scheme . It is like my left foot deciding it no longer wants to be my foot because it disagrees with my choice of footwear .

Bottom line . He took the money . He is under contract . He has NO leverage at all .

People keep saying the Redskins are not going to be able to get the $21 million bonus back I don't see that is a problem . In a normal year big Al would take up a roster space and valuable cap $$$$ but this season . The season with no cap there is no reason for the Skins to do anything . As long as they let him into the facility it sounds like the players have already turned on him so no one will care if big Al is practicing with the scout team . It is his career he is pissing away . If you remember Dan Snyder offered to by Coles a 50 inch plasma so he could watch the season at home . I am sure he wouldn't mind making an example of Albert Haynesworth .

IF anything big Al needs to think about how much that $21 million meens to him and if it is an issue about being played out of position then it is a small price to pay to ensure you can play in a system somewhere he can be the dominating force he wants to be .

LaVar Arrington did the same thing he ended up paying millions to be released .

He talked about being the next Reggie White but he will become a forgotten man . 2009 may be the last time he plays meaningful football .

The thing you fail to notice is that ever other player last year played in a 4-3 were they lied to ? London Fletcher is the consummate 4-3 MLB and he didn't throw his toys out the pram . He came to the Redskins to play in Gregg Williams defense . Was he lied to ? The players coming out to criticize Haynesworth are sheep they are professionals . To try and defend him is incomprehensible ....

I agree with some of what you wrote, now stop and reread what I wrote.

Nobody lied to fletch and the others because when they were signed they signed as NORMAL players, not 100 million dollar 3 tech tackles.

[Ryman of the North]

Yet another useless thread started by Ryman to take the opportunity to attack the front office. We get it Ryman: you hate Snyder, Shanahan, and Allen.

Yeah I start a lot of useless threads, funny how almost none of the threads I start ever have less than 8 pages in replies and discussion on a DISCUSSION BOARD. away with you peasant you have nothing of value to contribute here.

and BTW I have always stood up for Snyder, go try to find another thread ever where I joined in the snyder bashing. I also like Allen even if I am not a fan of some of his most recent moves and lack thereof, I do not like Shannahan because thus far he has allowed his ego to dictate a lot of his moves, if his ego makes this team better I will lump it.

[Ryman of the North]

I was a big Haynesworth support until I heard that he took the money then asked for a trade. In my opinion he is wrong and deserves all the criticism he is getting. I can't say that it is all his fault because something had to be said by Snyder to make him believe he wouldn't be playing out of position. So both sides are to be blamed here and Shanahan offered a solution to the problem by allowing him to seek a suitable trade partner before he would receive his bonus. He never found one and took the bonus which said he would be a Washington Redskin.

You don't take money from any company then quit without having to pay it back because that is called a breach of contract. How can a guy that doesn't show up for a mandatory mini camp, after taking a signing bonus that says you are on this roster to play, expect to keep the bonus and leave? He hasn't lived up to his end of the contract either. He is basically making $2.66 per game based on only playing in 12 games last season. No one in the history of the game has been paid that. I don't care what his contract says about the signing bonus or what type of defense the Redskins are running, unless it specifically states that he will never play in a 3-4 defense then he needs to come in and report for camp. Don't trade him and make him honor his contract just like you would at any company. He has little support from any of his teammates or any of his previous teammates which doesn't bode well for his trade prospects. I guess he will be saying hello to TO.

Umm you do understand the concept behind roster bonuses right?

[SWFLSkins]

You somehow doubt that I am extremely superlative at something marketable?, well you doubt wrong my friend. And I am not tooting my own horn like an internet tough guy. I walk away from contracts all the time, I value a relationship and sometimes I don't feel the love. But I don't take the check and then not do the work as contracted, no matter the margin. I have morals.

And while the numbers are considerably lower I negotiate contracts at a higher quantity than that of an NFL player. Imagine if they had to contract on a per game basis, that is what I do. Maybe my reputation is of more value to me in future negotiations because of that.

I have no problem asking for what I am worth, and neither did he. One big diff though, I actually deliver as promised. Evidenced by the fact that in this economy I still have as much work as I want. When I look someone in the eye and shake their hands, it is as good as the ink on the paper.

Where is the value in Haynesworth word now? So based on that, who is more successful AH or Me? I guess I already know your answer.

BTW, I will be working next week for the check I already cashed, he won't.

Sitting this dance out Ryman?

[Ryman of the North]

Sitting this dance out Ryman?

No, there just was no point in arguing when you obviously dont get it.

the number of contracts you sign means nothing its not even remotely similiar.

The point is simple even for you, Albert signed a contract, he signed based on someone telling him something that turned out not to be true. Thus he felt no compunction about being untruthful towards the people who he felt misled him. Yes this happens a lot to normal people, point being Albert is not normal. and has recourse that normal people dont have. neither you nor I have ever been in his position at that level, your delusions of grandeur notwithstanding.

Its rather funny that everyone is freaking out that He collected that bonus when he had no intention of playing in the 3-4, sort of like us signing him , making promises that he wouldnt be playing in a 3-4 and then not keeping our word. fact is the bonus was for being on the roster no more no less. and the redskins screwed the pooch on this entire situation.

[McD5]

Weak effort.

Players coaches and schemes change. So would it be okay now, for our WRs to all quit, because JC is no longer the QB?

Please. This is complete trash. Have some spine and character OP.

[Ryman of the North]

Weak effort.

Players coaches and schemes change. So would it be okay now, for our WRs to all quit, because JC is no longer the QB?

Please. This is complete trash. Have some spine and character OP.

Good post, only somewhat retarded, I'll give you a c for effort.

You may not agree, thats fine, but the facts are the facts.

your example needs some work, it would be more like all 4 receivers were told they were now going to be blocking tight ends and only on goal line and only when its a run.

fact one- the Best free agent DT in decades signed with us after being assured that we would scheme to use him to his best ability.

fact two - we paid him an obscene amount of money IN SOME PLACES CALLED PUTTING YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.

fact three - we hired an egomaniac who arbitrarily decided that we should run a 3-4 without even looking at our roster. despite the fact that this would obviously require making a 100million dollar player into a blockabsorber.

so now im waiting for one of you brilliant scholars to show me why this would all be Alberts fault when it clearly is not.

and btw I dont agree that this is all the skins fault either, there is lots of blame to go round.

[grego]

ryman,

hard to say that anyone 'misled' albert. i'm not even convinced he was told - much less promised- that he was going to play in a certain scheme in a certain position. clearly, he knew what kind of D the skins ran at the time. but to say he was misled implies that people withheld info from him when he signed the contract. i doubt dan was having conversations with shanny and jim haslett last february about what kind of D they were going to run when shanny was hired a year later.

if albert was indeed promised anything like that, i would think it would be in the contract. its important for him to use it as an excuse now, yet wasnt so important to put it in writing a year ago. given his character, comments from teammates, actions, ...everything, its more likely he spent a year here (because of the skins paid him the most money), didnt necessarily get along with his teammates according to reports, realized he could probably take his 21 mill bonus and still go somewhere else and get paid yet again.

the whole 'they promised me a, b and c' is just a way to make him look less greedy. and it looks like you bought it.

[Ryman of the North]

Grego- when he signed here we ran a 4-3, we had never even talked about 3-4 ever. as a matter of fact we were one team that had NEVER run anything other than a 43.

other people besides Albert have commented on what he was told to get him to sign, and it was spoken of a long time before this gong show happened.

btw he got along ok with teammates before this stuff happened that wasnt an issue before this ill advised stupidity.

[grego]

fact one- the Best free agent DT in decades signed with us after being assured that we would scheme to use him to his best ability.

maybe you didnt mean this the way you put it, but one could argue that we are going to use al in a way that best utilizes his strengths. why wouldnt we?

i think the issue isnt playing him to his strengths, but, as fletcher said, him wanting to do other things (go after the QB rather than absorb a blocker or 2).

anyhow, shanny has said that DL's will play all positions on the line, so his claim looks even more transparent.

[Conn]

Shanahan didn't "arbitrarily" decide to change to a 3-4, he studied it during his year off, extensively, and decided he wanted to install the scheme on his next team. And hired the appropriate personnel to do so. Does our talent fit it perfectly? No. But when a new coach comes in, the players that have been on the team only last a couple of seasons anyways, during which you transition while bringing in the young players who DO fit.

You bring with you a scheme to build a team around, you don't stick with something that doesn't fit your system just because the players on the team that went 4-12 the year before don't fit it.

[grego]

other people besides Albert have commented on what he was told to get him to sign, and it was spoken of a long time before this gong show happened.

havent seen that (other than his agents comments) but its possible. but he would have some of my sympathy had the scheme changed and the team told him to take a hike and tried to keep his money (which they really couldnt of course). but it appears to wanted him. and never asked him to take a pay cut.

btw he got along ok with teammates before this stuff happened that wasnt an issue before this ill advised stupidity.

i might have just read it on NFL.com but fletcher said that last year, he wasnt really open to doing things defensively that did not involve him making a play- if it didnt benefit him, he wasnt on board. and his former teammate said the his teammates in tennessee arent surprised at how this has turned out having known the guy.

edit- ya here it is http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818af50a&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Fletcher and others went further, painting a portrait of a player who has been self-centered since the day he joined the Redskins.

"It's no different than his attitude and approach to last year's defense," Fletcher said, "about wanting everything to revolve around him and him making plays. And if it didn't benefit him, he wasn't really willing to do it."

i'd say he wasnt that well thought of in the locker room.

[Renegade7]

Rayman,

I feel what you're saying about Big Al signing here to be part of a defense that is completely different from what he expected with Blache being so stubborn and now this 3-4 switch. But I feel like boo-boo the fool right now because of my defending Haynesworth, he'll be to camp, he's working really hard to the best he can for us;

When in reality, it seems like he made up his mind he was done playing for the washington redskins before he even took that last bonus from us. What's retarded on our part is that we had it in the contract that he'd get that bonus before the start of mandatory camp. We should've prepared ourselves better then this, because at this rate we aren't going to get back what we want, not even close. I'm predicting a rude awakening on this issue in the coming days with the NFLPA.

The olive branch needs to stay out there as long as it can for multiple reasons, tho, imo. Losing him drops our d-line to worst in the division over night, and there's no way to get equal value in trade, especially after this cluster****. Who the hell is really going to give up a first or second rounder for a player who at any given moment could say "**** ya'll, I dont wanna play anymore".

If we can't get the money back, I'm down with holding him hostage ala Stephon Mabury until he wakes up and puts the B&G back on, fine him as much as we can. Contract is reasonable enough to just let him sit till he can't take it anymore or we get offered a deal that makes sense to trade him. Call it pride or principle, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of making him happy trading him to a team he wants to play for after paying him that much money to play ONE year. That's total get-got...

[Renegade7]

To keep from landing on 666, I'd really like to stop hearing player comments about a guy who obviously doesn't a flyin **** about them. You need to focus on getting those routes right, and how we going to control the line of scrimmage; with or without Haynesworth.

[Ryman of the North]

Rayman,

I feel what you're saying about Big Al signing here to be part of a defense that is completely different from what he expected with Blache being so stubborn and now this 3-4 switch. But I feel like boo-boo the fool right now because of my defending Haynesworth, he'll be to camp, he's working really hard to the best he can for us;

When in reality, it seems like he made up his mind he was done playing for the washington redskins before he even took that last bonus from us. What's retarded on our part is that we had it in the contract that he'd get that bonus before the start of mandatory camp. We should've prepared ourselves better then this, because at this rate we aren't going to get back what we want, not even close. I'm predicting a rude awakening on this issue in the coming days with the NFLPA.

The olive branch needs to stay out there as long as it can for multiple reasons, tho, imo. Losing him drops our d-line to worst in the division over night, and there's no way to get equal value in trade, especially after this cluster****. Who the hell is really going to give up a first or second rounder for a player who at any given moment could say "**** ya'll, I dont wanna play anymore".

If we can't get the money back, I'm down with holding him hostage ala Stephon Mabury until he wakes up and puts the B&G back on, fine him as much as we can. Contract is reasonable enough to just let him sit till he can't take it anymore or we get offered a deal that makes sense to trade him. Call it pride or principle, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of making him happy trading him to a team he wants to play for after paying him that much money to play ONE year. That's total get-got...

you didnt say anything in that post that I disagree with.

[brianm23]

Heard a trade might be happening this afternoon.

Rather not say, but I was fine with the trade, and I think everyone here would be fine with it as well. Guess we'll just wait and see if anything happens.

Only thing I can give you is OL.

Wow, looks like the two gentlemen below can eat crow. What kind of side would you like with it, and how do you want it cooked?

I will be the first to apologize to JC#17 if a trade happens today or even within the next couple weeks...

When was JC17 ever right ? Oh yes I remember when we traded Chris Cooley to the Patrio... oh wait that never happened . People keep backing him up saying he is an insider and to be honest he touts himself as that but I cannot remember a single thing he has predicted that actually happened ..

From now on, how about both of you keep your stupid comments to yourselves when it comes to insiders. You guys act like the nothing changes. I'll give you this article to read so you can see how things drastically changed for Chris Canty and the Redskins within a matter of a hour or two.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/1.html

1:00 am - Vinny tells his agent they are out of the AH sweepstakes and he's lining up a jet for him the next day.

2:20am- AH's agent calls back with different demands and a deal is done.

We went from signing Chris Canty to AH in a matter of 1 hour and a half. It's like this all the time. Most deals that are talked about never materialize. The information he (or other insiders) give might never materialize, but it doesn't mean it's not 100% accurate at the time.

Both of you can now have a seat. \_

Thank you JC#17

[bedlamVR]

Wow, looks like the two gentlemen below can eat crow. What kind of side would you like with it, and how do you want it cooked?

From now on, how about both of you keep your stupid comments to yourselves when it comes to insiders. You guys act like the nothing changes. I'll give you this article to read so you can see how things drastically changed for Chris Canty and the Redskins within a matter of a hour or two.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/1.html

1:00 am - Vinny tells his agent they are out of the AH sweepstakes and he's lining up a jet for him the next day.

2:20am- AH's agent calls back with different demands and a deal is done.

We went from signing Chris Canty to AH in a matter of 1 hour and a half. It's like this all the time. Most deals that are talked about never materialize. The information he (or other insiders) give might never materialize, but it doesn't mean it's not 100% accurate at the time.

Both of you can now have a seat. \_

Thank you JC#17

Swing and a miss on calling us out . 17 said the trade would happen with Haynesworth .. as far as I know and what was reported AL was never a part of the Brown deal .

This deal with Brown has been on the slow boil for a long time . The Canty/Haynesworth change of direction was an accounting move not a philosophy change . Big Al was always the main target but thought to be not a viable option given the cap situation .

JC17 was still wrong but I am willing to concede he may well be an insider and I am wondering if I might know who JC17 is ...and may well be a media insider given the rumors of Brown to the Skins has been going on since April and they heated up yesterday following a tweet from JD .

[evmiii]

Over looking Albert's apparent attitude issue, so far his only crime is the skipping of a mandatory training period for which he has already reportedly been fined. Skipping the voluntary training, while disappointing, is not in violation of the terms of his deal.

I think the extreme negativity is based on his clear interest in what's best for Albert, not the Redskins. Clearly not the desired attitude, but he is hardly the only professional athlete with this position.

Unfortunately, I think bridges are being burned as I type so his place on this team is lost. No doubt he has the physical skills to be dominate, but I don't think his attitude and drive will ever make him the player he could and should be. What a waste of talent and an expensive lesson to the owner.

[JC#17]

So I guess I was half right/wrong.

Originally was told AH to NO for Jammal Brown and possibly draft picks involved.

Regardless, love the trade, go skins.

[SemperFISkins]

I say we play him on special teams and extra point attempts. We park his butt on the bench and let him rot.

If we can't trade him, and he does not want to play Defense, then he can be the highest paid 4th string DE that rides the pine.

[Loco Bob]

I say we play him on special teams and extra point attempts. We park his butt on the bench and let him rot.

If we can't trade him, and he does not want to play Defense, then he can be the highest paid 4th string DE that rides the pine.

Not very smart. Tough mike is in a corner, and AH is standing in his way. All big Al has to do is show up, jog around a bit, and say his foot hurts. He will be ready in a week. Then his knee hurts. Get the idea? He will still get paid. As long as AH goes through the motions, he must be paid, and there is nothing tough Mike can do. Mike screwed up big time, and now all he can do is bluster.