Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[aREDSKIN]

Logic would dictate that when you are offered to leave because they understand the situation, and you take the money anyway and then demand a trade, you are a thief.

Not sure why more people don't understand this. FASS was given an out, reportedly, and he refused it, took the money and ran. He's such a heaping pile of :pooh:

[skinsfan913]

I am in partial agreement with Ryman.

Here is something that is not being mentioned. Isn't it possible the Shanahan and Allen basically orchestrated this from the beginning? I mean' date=' as soon as I heard the numbers 3-4 in that order, I thought, "Haynesworth is gonna be pissed." Surely they knew this too.

I don't think they ever really wanted him here. So, they decided to push the crazy man's buttons.

As for the player criticism...NFL players are sheep. By the time you reach this level, you have been forced to conform for so many years that it's next to impossible to even conceive of challenging management.[/quote']

So Shanahan and Co. decided to swith our whole defensive scheme just to piss off A.H. and cause tremendous team controversy. C-H-I-L-D please!

[evmiii]

Regardless of what you believe has transpired to date, we must look forward. Fat Al was not a contributer last year and I sure haven't seen anything to make me believe that will be any different this year. All the team has invested in cash (admittedly a bunch). We need to cut our losses, get what we can for him (not much by my estimation) and move on.

My personal opinion, he is a lazy, disrepectful, non trust worthy, drastically over valued, out of shape defensive line man. Why would we want him?

[dcdiscokid]

I just dont buy AH's bull****, he could not have honestly expected to sign a 7 year contract and think he would be playing in a 4-3 for that whole time. So it came earlier than expected, but cmon the turnover of coaches in this league is tremendous and at some point the defensive scheme was going to change. I'm sure he would rather be in a 4-3 that's where he is comfortable, in the 3-4 he will actually have to work, which is where i think his lazy ass has the real problem.

[TheLongshot]

Fat Al was not a contributer last year and I sure haven't seen anything to make me believe that will be any different this year.

Let's have a dose of reality here: saying that Haynesworth was not a contributer last year would be flat out wrong. Defenses didn't put double or triple teams on him for nothing. He was a big reason why we were able to apply pressure to opposing QBs and have two guys with over 10+ sacks.

Also, this defense would be better with Haynesworth than without him. Haynesworth's talent is indisputable. Now, this is qualified with if he worked with the coaches and his teammates. Since he's decided not to, he's pretty worthless.

But, let's not let the hate overpower the fact that Haynesworth is a talented player who does make an impact on the team that he's on.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So Shanahan and Co. decided to swith our whole defensive scheme just to piss off A.H. and cause tremendous team controversy. C-H-I-L-D please!

No...but they had to know that this was going to be a potential result of the move. I don't think they schemed for this to happen but were just indifferent to the obvious end game.

I mean, I knew it was coming. And I'm just me.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I just dont buy AH's bull****, he could not have honestly expected to sign a 7 year contract and think he would be playing in a 4-3 for that whole time.

Why wouldn't he? Unless he thought Bill Cowher was coming here someday, he was coming to a 4-3 team with a 4-3 coach and 4-3 personnel.

I still am stunned that we are actually going through with this. Our two best defensive pieces are Haynesworth and Fletcher. And we are making them move to a system that they have never played in and that does not match their specific strengths.

It's a rather bold move, I think.

[Ryman of the North]

Unfortunately, your argument falls right here, leaving you stranded.

Here's what Haynesworth said in his introductory press conference last year when we brought him in:

umm no my argument hasnt failed not even remotely and not by your quote.

Uhh yeah as the premier DT in the league he was gonna be getting doubled and tripled, its all about HOW, as a 3 tech you get doubled by a guard and a running back sometimes a center can hook as well, as a NT you automatically get at least a Guard center combo, you tell me which one is worse.

I get it, some of you have no clue as to the nuances of interior line play or you just ignore it.

My own personal take is he should show up , refuse to play NT and only play DE and DT in the nickel, thats what I would do, or I would offer a percentage of the bonus back and ask for a trade.

[Ryman of the North]

and LKB is abslutely correct, the skins have always been a 4-3 team, have never even really experimented with a 3-4 have nothing approaching a 3-4 type roster and just signed a premier free agent DT who excels in the 4-3 only Shanny knew he was gonna force this ****eyed scheme change through no matter what.

and I saw this coming a mile away, having been put in the same spot as haynesworth (minus the hundred mil lol) I know that I walked away from football for a year rather than be a block absorber.

[erock353]

Haynesworth handling this thing with the class of a hooker shooting heroin is his fault.

Not fair to the hooker if you ask me. At least she will do what she is paid to do, :laugh:!

But, seriously Fats(AH) sucks.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've been trying to sort out my feelings on this, and it's basically that I support the right of any person to just quit their job if they want to. Albert doesn't owe the team or the fans or anyone anything except in some vague moral sense.

Now, how much of the money he was paid should go back to the team is up for the lawyers to work out. My own philosophy in these circumstances is that the party with the money keeps the money until someone with the authority to make you pay actually makes you pay. Strictly speaking, "bonuses" are not a fee for service. The Redskins can obviously fine him and withhold pay checks. But I don't know if it's so easy as "Give me back the money, you fat ****."

[HailGreen28]

Fat Al got the majority of the guaranteed money he was to get, with that 20 million dollar bonus, where we had him relatively cheap the next few years, right?

I think Fat Albert is just looking to get out now, so he can get a bigger payday from another team than what the Redskins would've realistically paid him for the remainder of his time here.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think Fat Albert is just looking to get out now, so he can get a bigger payday from another team than what the Redskins would've realistically paid him for the remainder of his time here.

I believe that is called "Pulling a DeAngelo Hall."

DeAngelo Hall may be the smartest player in the NFL. And if he criticizes Haynesworth, someone should kick him in the nards.

[Ryman of the North]

I believe that is called "Pulling a DeAngelo Hall."

DeAngelo Hall may be the smartest player in the NFL. And if he criticizes Haynesworth' date=' someone should kick him in the nards.[/quote']

hahahahaha, yup.

I am still waiting for the anti Albert guys to explain why its ok for one party to break their word and not the other?

truth be told I wish we would just shut up and run the 4-3 and avoid all this but we are now committed to shannys ego trip, lets hope its borne out.

[BLEED-B&G]

I wonder if there was a Haynesworth thread anywhere around here your support could have fit in....

[TheLongshot]

My own personal take is he should show up , refuse to play NT and only play DE and DT in the nickel, thats what I would do, or I would offer a percentage of the bonus back and ask for a trade.

Course, part of the problem is that he didn't decide to force the issue until well after he took his $21m. It sounds like the coaching staff made it pretty clear what they expected out of him and what his options were, and the assumption was that if he took the money, that he was going to be here eventually.

I am still waiting for the anti Albert guys to explain why its ok for one party to break their word and not the other?

It has nothing to do with words and everything to do with the contract he signed. According to Shanahan, they were open to moving him, but once he took the $21m, he was expected to do everything the coaching staff asked of him.

[HailGreen28]

hahahahaha, yup.

I am still waiting for the anti Albert guys to explain why its ok for one party to break their word and not the other?

truth be told I wish we would just shut up and run the 4-3 and avoid all this but we are now committed to shannys ego trip, lets hope its borne out.

Please let me know if you're trolling, because I thought you were a smart guy before this.

Just to answer your strawman: The coaches who promised Haynesworth what he would be doing DIDN'T LIE. They used him in the 4-3 as promised. They aren't there anymore. The only party that broke their word is Fat ***.

And just to pre-empt another stupid distraction: do you think Fat Al's contract actually stipulates that Fat *** is released from his contractual obligations by a coaching or assignment change?

Fat *** is a liar and a thief. He knew very well what our defensive scheme was going to be this year, when he decided whether or not to take the 20 million.

Hayesworth supporters, please tell me you have more integrity than Fat ***.

[Ryman of the North]

sorry longshot, im not buying what you are selling, he signed a contract that for all intents and puposes was a 100million dollar contract, if he had said " yeah I want to be traded trade me now, then you and I both know the skins would have attempted to rescind that 21 million dollars and kept it frozen in court while finding Al another place to play. but the way the contract is written its his if he plays period.

looking at it from his point of view, He signed with the skins, he kept his end of the bargain so the skins owed him that 21 million. now that he has it I doubt they will get it back and frankly I think its a good wake up call for Danny.

what we should see is contact adjustments based on incentives , based on making weight, based on showing up for team stuff. not small bonuses that mean nothing.

that 21 million was a bonus for being on the roster. period.

[Ryman of the North]

Please let me know if you're trolling, because I thought you were a smart guy before this.

Just to answer your strawman: The coaches who promised Haynesworth what he would be doing DIDN'T LIE. They used him in the 4-3 as promised. They aren't there anymore. The only party that broke their word is Fat ***.

And just to pre-empt another stupid distraction: do you think Fat Al's contract actually stipulates that Fat *** is released from his contractual obligations by a coaching or assignment change?

Fat *** is a liar and a thief. He knew very well what our defensive scheme was going to be this year, when he decided whether or not to take the 20 million.

Hayesworth supporters, please tell me you have more integrity than Fat ***.

Part trolling partly serious.

Im not talking about coaches, coaches are middle management, im talking about the guy who signs the cheques.

and I am gonna say this now, read it carefully, Albert WILL show up for training camp if hes not traded, he wont be in shape, and he will play uninspired football but he knows (or his agent does) that if he doesnt THEN he will have to forfeit money that hes been paid. I think the skins will suspend him or trade him though because shanny has too much riding on this.

[dcdiscokid]

Why wouldn't he? Unless he thought Bill Cowher was coming here someday' date=' he was coming to a 4-3 team with a 4-3 coach and 4-3 personnel.[/quote']

Because what team that is a perennial bottom dweller has not made fundamental changes to both offensive and defensive schemes in an effort to get out of the rut. Zorn was on the hot seat when he signed the contract. The skins have sucked for more than a decade. Change was coming, and AH is an idiot if he didn't consider that it might be a possibility that the next coach would shake things up. Plus the NFL is a copy cat league and most teams are now running the 3-4. So again i just cant believe he never considered that over the life of the contract he might be playing in a 3-4 base. And as a side note when he did sign the contract there were lots of rumours swirling around that Bill Cowher could be coming here this season.

[Ryman of the North]

why would you blow things up when you have what is pretty much agreed to be the best 4-3 DT and solid 4-3 personelle at every spot except sam and FS?

[HailGreen28]

Part trolling partly serious.

Im not talking about coaches, coaches are middle management, im talking about the guy who signs the cheques.

and I am gonna say this now, read it carefully, Albert WILL show up for training camp if hes not traded, he wont be in shape, and he will play uninspired football but he knows (or his agent does) that if he doesnt THEN he will have to forfeit money that hes been paid. I think the skins will suspend him or trade him though because shanny has too much riding on this.

Understood on your part, I think.

Not surprised anymore if Fat *** does the exact rotten thing you predict. Assuming he really doesn't want to play the role Shanny and Co. have for him, the minute he took the money ALREADY KNOWING what our defense was going to be this season, Haynesworth = POS.

[The Tris]

Shocking that the biggest opponent of the 3-4 supports someone who is also opposed to a 3-4. I am shocked.

It's be one thing if you simply were against the 3-4 because its going to take multiple seasons to aquire and integrate the right personnel, I get that, and agree that it is a major issue.

But the fact that you do not buy the 3-4 as a viable defensive scheme whatsoever means these threads of yours are nothing more than a personal vendetta against a philosophy that we have yet to see in practice. Much like Albert Haynesworth.

[angel2]

I am in partial agreement with Ryman.

Here is something that is not being mentioned. Isn't it possible the Shanahan and Allen basically orchestrated this from the beginning? I mean' date=' as soon as I heard the numbers 3-4 in that order, I thought, "Haynesworth is gonna be pissed." Surely they knew this too.

I don't think they ever really wanted him here. So, they decided to push the crazy man's buttons.

As for the player criticism...NFL players are sheep. By the time you reach this level, you have been forced to conform for so many years that it's next to impossible to even conceive of challenging management.[/quote']

You are stating the obvious, of course it's possible. There's something in AH's make up that rubs football people the wrong way.

Vinny and Dan created this mess and now Dan wants Shanahan to be the point man. We can speculate what Dan, Bruce and Shanahan may have said about this and come with the conclusion that Albert Haynesworth does want to be here. But I would not cut or trade him. Make him play in his present stew of events and really feel the anger of the fans and former players/present players. Albert has made himself the poster boy of greed first, team somewhere down the line.

[NewCliche21]

Understood on your part, I think.

Not surprised anymore if Fat *** does the exact rotten thing you predict. Assuming he really doesn't want to play the role Shanny and Co. have for him, the minute he took the money ALREADY KNOWING what our defense was going to be this season, Haynesworth = POS.

1) I'm glad that we're on the same side of something for once.

2) Nick names aren't so bad when you hate the guy. I get that now.