Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 West Coast offenses vary significantly. The Packers are my second favorite team and they LOVE to throw the long ball and have the receiving threats to make defenses play the entire field. Using Rodgers as a baseline for what quarterbacks in a West Coast offense should be doing isn't really fair.McNabb is a better baseline, IMO. McNabb and Reid love to throw the deep ball, but emphasize the short passing game like most West Coast offenses. Guess what percentage of McNabb's passes are thrown within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage? 74%...pretty damn similar to JC's stats. both teams run a similar offense, and both teams stretch the field. santana moss is one of the best deep threats in the game and still is, he just doesnt have a QB that can hit him on those deep passes very well. and pull up mcnabbs splits, his deep numbers this year have been extremely impressive now that jackson is there. hes 5/8 on passes thrown 41+ yards, which has to be the best in the NFL at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hes not really that inaccurate.....until the ball needs to travel very far. I think JC is far more accurate than Mcnabb in the short passing game.Its when you get into the intermediate, and deep passing game when Mcnabb dominates JC. Deep passes win games in this league.....and I think its a big reason why JC loses much more than he wins... 100% agree, why mcnabb can throw beautiful touch passes 20 to 30 yards, yet he skips check downs and short throws into the dirt at 6 yards away is a mystery lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 West Coast offenses vary significantly. The Packers are my second favorite team and they LOVE to throw the long ball and have the receiving threats to make defenses play the entire field. Using Rodgers as a baseline for what quarterbacks in a West Coast offense should be doing isn't really fair.McNabb is a better baseline, IMO. McNabb and Reid love to throw the deep ball, but emphasize the short passing game like most West Coast offenses. Guess what percentage of McNabb's passes are thrown within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage? 74%...pretty damn similar to JC's stats. Except its not 74%. McNabb: 67% Rodgers: 68% Jay Cutler: 68% David Garrard: 64% Kyle Orton: 69% Mark Sanchez: 62% Trent Edwards: 77% Brett Favre: 70% Matt Schaub: 72% Kurt Warner: 70% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 both teams run a similar offense, and both teams stretch the field. santana moss is one of the best deep threats in the game and still is, he just doesnt have a QB that can hit him on those deep passes very well. and pull up mcnabbs splits, his deep numbers this year have been extremely impressive now that jackson is there. hes 5/8 on passes thrown 41+ yards, which has to be the best in the NFL at the moment. You're changing the subject of the debate. Campbell's critics argued that Campbell is an inaccurate passer. I then pointed out that he's completing 66% of his passes. Campbell's critics argued that his completion percentage is high merely because he throws short passes. I then noted that Campbell's completion percentage is high when compared to quarterbacks in ANY system, including quarterbacks who play in West Coast offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 JC is a dumbbell. He is a 40-60 QB. He makes 40% good plays, and 60% poor decisions/bad throws, etc. That is not what the statistics say. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE&d-447263-n=1 He is 7th in completion percentage. Ahead of Tom Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 You're changing the subject of the debate. Campbell's critics argued that Campbell is an inaccurate passer. I then pointed out that he's completing 66% of his passes. Campbell's critics argued that his completion percentage is high merely because he throws short passes. I then noted that Campbell's completion percentage is high when compared to quarterbacks in ANY system, including quarterbacks who play in West Coast offenses. if you wanna talk about accuracy than his comp % is not a good measuring stick. if he throws a poor pass and someone makes a great play and catches it, its a completion. was it an inaccurate pass? yes. did someone make a great play? yes. same works the other way, could be an accurate pass and someone dropped it or bobbled it, etc. if youve watched campbell enough, numbers aside, its hard to argue with your eyes that hes an accurate passer. if you wanna go just by the numbers, his comp % is inflated by mostly short throws. hes been doing this for years, its nothing new. 4 more games until we can move on. i did not think id have to stomach a whole season with campbell behind center again. january 4th cant come any quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 if you wanna talk about accuracy than his comp % is not a good measuring stick. if he throws a poor pass and someone makes a great play and catches it, its a completion. was it an inaccurate pass? yes. did someone make a great play? yes. same works the other way, could be an accurate pass and someone dropped it or bobbled it, etc. The same is true for EVERY other quarterback in the league. Other quarterbacks are playing behind a different line and with different running backs and wideouts. Do you think that our line, wideouts, and backs are better than average and making him look better than he really is? I would argue that talent around Jason this season (especially when you consider the injuries) is pretty piss poor. if youve watched campbell enough, numbers aside, its hard to argue with your eyes that hes an accurate passer. Sorry, but he is an accurate passer and the FACTS bear that out. You just tend to notice Jason's inaccurate throws more because you're more emotionally invested in his success/failure. If McNabb doesn't place the ball well, you probably don't notice it or get riled up about it. If Campbell doesn't place the ball well, you probably *#^@ your pants like I do because you love the team. if you wanna go just by the numbers, his comp % is inflated by mostly short throws. hes been doing this for years, its nothing new. Total BS. You are arguing: (1) Jason Campbell throws a lot of short throws; and (2) therefore, his completion percentage is inflated. HOWEVER, I already pointed out that Jason Campbell's completion percentage is high even when compared to other QBs who are in West Coast offenses and throw a lot of short passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 The same is true for EVERY other quarterback in the league. Other quarterbacks are playing behind a different line and with different running backs and wideouts. Do you think that our line, wideouts, and backs are better than average and making him look better than he really is? I would argue that talent around Jason this season (especially when you consider the injuries) is pretty piss poor.Sorry, but he is an accurate passer and the FACTS bear that out. You just tend to notice Jason's inaccurate throws more because you're more emotionally invested in his success/failure. If McNabb doesn't place the ball well, you probably don't notice it or get riled up about it. If Campbell doesn't place the ball well, you probably *#^@ your pants like I do because you love the team. Total BS. You are arguing: (1) Jason Campbell throws a lot of short throws; and (2) therefore, his completion percentage is inflated. HOWEVER, I already pointed out that Jason Campbell's completion percentage is high even when compared to other QBs who are in West Coast offenses and throw a lot of short passes. Sorry, BLC. Gotta go with Madison on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 You consider making an 8-yard throw to a tight end trying to make something happen? You crack me up. :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Sorry, but he is an accurate passer and the FACTS bear that out. Stop it! How many times have we seen Jason miss a wide open receiver this season alone? You call that an accurate QB? He had 1 pretty good game this entire season, and half this board jumps on his band-wagon. I will admit he has stepped up, and I was even proud of the man last Sunday, and screw you Shuisham, but he still leaves points on the field by missing these wide open receivers. We will know if Jason has taken the next step when NY comes to town, they have given him fits the last 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Stop it! How many times have we seen Jason miss a wide open receiver this season alone? You call that an accurate QB?.....but he still leaves points on the field by missing these wide open receivers. We will know if Jason has taken the next step when NY comes to town, they have given him fits the last 2 seasons. Dude every QB misses open receivers. Have you seen Eli, Romo sits to pee and McNabb they miss open receivers all the time. If JC missed more open receivers then average the stats would bear this out. And clearly they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Total BS. You are arguing: (1) Jason Campbell throws a lot of short throws; and (2) therefore, his completion percentage is inflated. HOWEVER, I already pointed out that Jason Campbell's completion percentage is high even when compared to other QBs who are in West Coast offenses and throw a lot of short passes. You are failing to acknowledge that Jason throws short, on average, more then any QB in football. He leads the league in passes thrown short of 10 yards.That obviously inflates his completion %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Without Jason Campbell we are completely blown out that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 if you wanna talk about accuracy than his comp % is not a good measuring stick. if he throws a poor pass and someone makes a great play and catches it, its a completion. was it an inaccurate pass? yes. did someone make a great play? yes. same works the other way, could be an accurate pass and someone dropped it or bobbled it, etc.How many times have his receivers made spectacular catches this year? Not many.if you wanna go just by the numbers, his comp % is inflated by mostly short throws.1) And yet his ypa is in the top half of the league (14th)2) We've been running a lot of shorter routes in recent weeks, particularly in the Dallas game, where we knew that our pass pro wouldn't be able to hold up for very long. The NO game was the first time in a while where we've dialed up a bunch of deeper passing plays. Course, it was also the first time in a while where JC actually connected on a bunch of deeper passing plays.:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 You are failing to acknowledge that Jason throws short, on average, more then any QB in football. He leads the league in passes thrown short of 10 yards.That obviously inflates his completion %. I take it you didn't read the prior posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I take it you didn't read the prior posts. I read them. I do not see an explanation for how his completion % is not inflated by throwing short, on average, more then any other QB in any offense. Even a mobile QB like Vince Young that runs options, with tosses and pitches. All I see is that you argue his completion % is higher then other West Coast QBs and an incorrect statistic on Donovann McNabb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 That is not what the statistics say.http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE&d-447263-n=1 He is 7th in completion percentage. Ahead of Tom Brady. So he must be better and worth more trade value then Brady right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 So he must be better and worth more trade value then Brady right? Be careful. Some butthead will start crying why you're trying to compare Campbell to the likes of Brady (or Brees or Manning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I really dont see the point of the argument anymore. Its clear the FO is going to do anything they can to get another QB in here. Why waste time arguing about a guy that, buy this time next year, shouldn't be Redskin anymore? You like him? Who cares You dont? Who cares Hes gone anyway lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 The throw wasn't a bad decision by Jason. Vilma just made a good defensive play on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 So he must be better and worth more trade value then Brady right? Jason Campbell has practically no trade value because he will be going on the open market soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I really dont see the point of the argument anymore. Its clear the FO is going to do anything they can to get another QB in here. Why waste time arguing about a guy that, buy this time next year, shouldn't be Redskin anymore? You like him? Who cares You dont? Who cares Hes gone anyway lol I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'd think this too, if it wasn't for the fact Chris Samuels will not be back next year. LT is just too important not to draft high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Jason Campbell has practically no trade value because he will be going on the open market soon. I pray for that but doubt it will happen with everything going on. He didn't have any trade value last year either btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'd think this too, if it wasn't for the fact Chris Samuels will not be back next year. LT is just too important not to draft high. This is very true. Unfortunately there are a couple of problems. If Vinny is back I have a hard time seeing us not going QB. Snyder and Vinny love them those shiny players. Tackle may not be sexy enough. Then there is the issue of this class being pretty thin as far as elite level LTs. You have Okung who I think could definitely be great and will go in the top 10 if not top 5, depending on the combine, etc. After that it sort of drops off. Personally I'd love to trade back and grab an extra pick or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yup.In case folks didn't see Tom Brady at the end of the Miami game...Campbell's pick has nothing on that one... these sort of brain dead comparisons always make me want to puke. the poster invariably minimizes a JC error by pointing out that other...quality QBS...have occasionally fallen prey to the same mistake. but NEVER...EVER....NEVER.....do these same posters return to the idea that these same QBs have done one thing JC has never done: WIN. they never take the time to assess what these QBs do well that JC has not duplicated. the standards on this board have fallen so low from its inception that it boggles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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