Poll: Should Tailgate Posts Count??

[Titaw]

IMHO posts in the tailgate should count because the tailgate is such an integral part of this board. It is a great way to know your fellow board members outside of being Skins fans. As others have stated the regular members know who are the quality posters and who are what we like to call post count padders.

Tailgate posts should count because people aren't going to come here for JUST the tailgate. They'll get their Skins fix and then venture on into the tailgate for great conversation and banter.

Let'em count!

[MisterPinstripe]

I dont really care. I would rather have a zero post count and be able to have a Sean Taylor avatar. If there was someway to allow custom avatars to be uploaded for people, I think that would work pretty well. I think a lot of people may post a lot so they can get rid of a certain avatar they have that they dont like.

[Burgold]

No, frankly I don't want a record of how much I post here :laugh:

[Jumbo]

I don’t care much, either, and I post regularly in three forums anyway. But I see the rationale that if you’re going to use post counts at all on a site whose raison d'etre is talking football, restrict them to the main football forum. And the comment that this poll will be a small, biased sample is accurate.

So, just as an observer, I see the majority of tailgaters voting are saying post count matters to them, at least somewhat. Apparently just not enough to be fine with obtaining that count by making posts in the Stadium, which is the main forum of the Redskins’s football site.

That would also be the forum that is the reasons for the site’s existence and the forum that is solely about the team that is supposedly our reason for having joined ES and come together (knock it off). I do believe it was conversing about the Redskins that was the prime motivator in creating the site. I’m just framing the matter. :halo:

Another way to put it might be: given all this interest in posts counting, all should be happy to know there’s an easy solution--make football related posts in the stadium.

Ok Ok, I’ll stop. :laugh:

I also observe, as usual, a lot of the "it's too stupid over there" mentality as a reason why not to do that, which is fine in my book. ES is often steeped in irony. I think it gets stupid in the tailgate a lot of the time, too.

I do think it may be more challenging for the average football fan to make intelligent football conversation then for the average person to speak on general life topics, like religion, politics, dating, music & movies and just joke around with others. The average person has far more expertise, practice, and awareness in the arena of life's general topics than the average football fan part of them has in the knowledgeable-pro-football-discussion arena. The same would be true if this were a sports-fishing site with an auxiliary open-topic forum.

Spam sucks, and the comment "you can make spam posts over there" is true as fact, but maybe a little thin as an argument used in this matter. People make plenty of spam posts in the tailgate every day, in fact. Isn’t it hypocritical to knock the behavior in the stadium and be blind to it here in the tailgate? It also begs the question "does that mean you have to make spam posts?" Yes, the weak “me too” or “boo Brunell” posts count there and don’t here, just as the more worthy posts. I guess you could call some of that stadium spam “community building.” :laugh:

In the tailgate, we have a history of stream-of-consciousness threads and random topics (“what song are you listening to now”; “rate my booty”; “who’s hotter”). Fun threads and I use them, but I don't associate them with post counts on a football board.

I don't go there so I don't know, but do they have post counts or an equivalent on MySpace or Facebook? We also get whole threads that many members accept as “community-building” for members that hang out in the tailgate, like the recent “official keeastman fan club thread.” :cool:

Again, a great thread and a lot of fun, but I’m not sure I could see the logic of regarding it as a source of post counts on a football site. That seems silly as opposed to seeing it as simply being “tailgate fun.” I know there are silly-topic football threads in the stadium that do count and only yield a “wtf?” to people who breathe through their nose. But I believe the quality of posts in any forum is a separate issue from counting posts in any forum; it’s a sub-topic to the primary one. Now how’s that for silly? :laugh:

More than a few members used to call stuff like the "fan club" topic “spam-threads.” I don’t agree. It really is community building in the tailgate discussion forum. Of course, all of this is silly in the end, but I’m killing some time stuck here waiting. :type:

But one could suggest the only community that should be connected to post counts is the Redskins football-focused discussion community, and we can choose to be in more than one community. But if you choose not to be involved on that one, your posts don’t accrue in your count. Not too weird, IMO.

One of the reasons the rule was changed had to do with the longest spam thread ever, a tailgate “legend”, and the spamming behavior in that thread spilled over into other tailgate conversations creating some real problems with being able to have other conversations stay even somewhat on track. It was much like the inevitable escalation of any thread with half-nekkid girlie pics always getting pushed to the point where it gets closed (though we've been ignoring the paradeskin link ).

Anyhow, Just my random thoughts gang. :writing:

[MissU28]

I voted yes. I want a Darrell Green avatar. There are occasions where I will spend some time in the Stadium or in Around the NFL, but since the Stadium is so packed most of the time, if I have questions about the Redskins, they have already been answered 10 times before I have a chance to post, so I'll just read in there. I spend 99% of my time on ES in the tailgate, and I know there are others like me...and I don't want to just go to the Stadium or Around the NFL to post stupid stuff so I can get my post count up.

So, if you put the post count back in the tailgate....Darrell Green here I come

[Chachie]

Yes.

The Tailgate is too much fun to stay out of and we shouldn't be limited because of that.

[TK]

More than a few members used to call stuff like the "fan club" topic “spam-threads.” I don’t agree. It really is community building in the tailgate discussion forum.

Where have I heard that before? Oh wait.......

[Tarhog]

One of the reasons the rule was changed had to do with the longest spam thread ever, a tailgate “legend”, and the spamming behavior in that thread spilled over into other tailgate conversations creating some real problems with being able to have other conversations stay even somewhat on track. It was much like the inevitable escalation of any thread with half-nekkid girlie pics always getting pushed to the point where it gets closed (though we've been ignoring the paradeskin link ).

You make some good points - although I'd also point out that there was no discussion about the change when it occured - so there was no 'official staff reason' - if you recall, Blade made the decision on his own, unilaterally, without any debate amongst the staff beforehand. I love me some Blade, but restricting the post count to 'Stadium-only' posts was his decision, not one carefully considered and debated by staff. And its had little to no impact on the quality or volume of Stadium posts to my knowledge. If you guys don't think the 80% in opposition to the current system we're seeing in this poll reflects reality, please post the poll in the Stadium and lets see what the feeling there is. No reason to continue with the current method if the vast majority of members liked it better the old way.

[ldysknzfn1]

I didn't vote b/c it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm in favor of keeping the riff raff out like Koolblue mentioned earlier in the thread. I generally like the folks who post over here. The conversations are much more "interesting" than those in the stadium especially in the offseason:D .

Count...don't count. Whateva!:cool:

Count me as neutral on this.

[Tarhog]

Where have I heard that before? Oh wait.......

I used to see it that way, but over time have come to realize it doesn't matter if those types of threads were 'my thing' or not, if other folks enjoyed them that ought to have been justification enough to let them exist. The other point I'd make is that, by differentiating between the Tailgate and Stadium crowds, you're really reinforcing that its almost 2 separate boards.

I think I was wrong in my viewpoint back then, and I think the 'fix' Blade put in was well-intentioned but hasn't accomplished much - and more importantly doesn't reflect what extremeskins members want.

My opinion.

[HOF44]

Was there ever any suggestions from the team to tone down or discourage the tailgate and make the site skew more toward a pure football board? The vibe I have gotten about the team is they mainly leave you guys running things alone, for the good and the bad.

Or was the legendary stream of consciousness thread the catalyst that made Blade make that unilateral decision?

[Enter Apotheosis]

I preface this by saying that I voted 'no' in this poll and really don't care about post count in the slightest, I'm just arguing because I'm a philosopher and a contrarian (in that order)

But one could suggest the only community that should be connected to post counts is the Redskins football-focused discussion community, and we can choose to be in more than one community. But if you choose not to be involved on that one, your posts don’t accrue in your count. Not too weird, IMO.

One could also suggest that there's no need for a football-focused message board to even have sections that are unrelated to football to begin with. It wouldn't be difficult at all for people to go discuss other stuff elsewhere. Nonetheless, the fact that the Tailgate and other forums even exist suggests that there is definitely value placed in non-football discussions.

The argument that the Tailgate is what helps build up the community has been used over and over... but there's really no merit to that one. So - again - why keep it around? In theory, the community should be quite capable of building itself up within the Stadium. In reality, that doesn't seem to happen on the same level that it does in the Tailgate... quite possibly because the Tailgate is a smaller, more personable version of the Stadium. Sure, the discussion can be just as dumb (if not dumber) in the Tailgate but thats somewhat irrelevant. Its easier to have a conversation in a place where discussions are more slowly paced and its also easier to hold people accountable for some of the crap they post up.

In essence, the Tailgate now is what the Stadium used to be (circa 2005). Both are suffering from declining quality that is seemingly directly proportional to increasing board membership. The Stadium, however, is declining at a more rapid pace due to its position at the forefront of ES.

If the Stadium is truly priority #1 for ES it should have higher standards and should be in better shape overall. Thats not the case.

One of the reasons the rule was changed had to do with the longest spam thread ever, a tailgate “legend”, and the spamming behavior in that thread spilled over into other tailgate conversations creating some real problems with being able to have other conversations stay even somewhat on track. It was much like the inevitable escalation of any thread with half-nekkid girlie pics always getting pushed to the point where it gets closed (though we've been ignoring the paradeskin link ).

Yeah, changing the postcount rules didn't really help much with that. Threads like it-which-shall-not-be-named still pop up all the time, though less grand in scale.

[Jumbo]

You make some good points - although I'd also point out that there was no discussion about the change when it occured - so there was no 'official staff reason' - if you recall, Blade made the decision on his own, unilaterally, without any debate amongst the staff beforehand

It may be early-onset Alzheimers, but I believe I was referring to matters in conversations that occurred both in weeks building up to Blade's decision and afterwards. I didn't say anything about any staff debates or "official staff reason." I just remember various key points/themes that Blade, most of us, (and various members via posts, e-mails, and PMs) covered on each side of the spam-thread/post count/tailgate-stadium/ dialogues during the entire process. But if my memory is skewed, I can deal with it. :cool:

[Tarhog]

Was there ever any suggestions from the team to tone down or discourage the tailgate and make the site skew more toward a pure football board? The vibe I have gotten about the team is they mainly leave you guys running things alone, for the good and the bad.

Or was the legendary stream of consciousness thread the catalyst that made Blade make that unilateral decision?

The teams never told us what to do. They didn't originally see any value in continuing with multiple forums when we first signed on with them, but we actually were able to convince them it was a big deal for the members and something they'd want to continue. And yeah, I think some of the threads like the AHFB and other 'stream of consciousness' threads contributed to why we made the change.

Again - I'm simply wondering if my suspicions, that very few folks like the change since its inception, are correct. If it turns out I'm dead wrong, thats fine too. I've never personally cared about post count. I just think when possible, the preferences of the members should take precedence.

[Tarhog]

It may be early-onset Alzheimers, but I believe I was referring to matters in conversations that occurred both in weeks building up to Blade's decision and afterwards. I didn't say anything about any staff debates or "official staff reason." I just remember various key points/themes that Blade, most of us, (and various members via posts, e-mails, and PMs) covered on each side of the spam-thread/post count/tailgate-stadium/ dialogues during the entire process. But if my memory is skewed, I can deal with it. :cool:

Thats cool Dana, I'm not trying to twist your words or put words in your mouth. I'm just pointing out that the original change was never debated or discussed before it happened, it was something Blade thought would address the issue. I didn't blink an eye at the time a) because I had enormous respect for Blade's judgement (still do) and because I never anticipated the uproar it would cause. During the initial period, I felt like a decision had been made and it should be supported. But now, several years down the road, I don't see the purpose - if the members here continue to indicate the vast majority prefer the old system, I would hope that would be reimplemented, thats all.

[dcnativenerd]

Where's the "I love cookies" option?

[Jumbo]

EA, you make fine points that I have already considered, and tend to agree with, though I can tell you as a general rule, the staff talks about and notices EVERYTHING on the board (virtually). Of course there is recent and still ongoing change in the staff area, some still unknown.

[Enter Apotheosis]

EA, you make fine points that I have already considered, and tend to agree with, though I can tell you as a general rule, the staff talks about and notices EVERYTHING on the board (virtually). Of course there is recent and still ongoing change in the staff area, some still unknown.

I would have been surprised if you hadn't considered at least some of that

I'm not a staff member, though, so I might as well bring it up in open discussion. I'm somewhat interested in what you guys have actually talked about in terms of handling some of the issues posed by the sheer size of the Stadium. Also, discussing cluster****s and possible solutions has been my raison d'etre as of late thanks to a pretty hellish month at work.

[HOF44]

Also, discussing cluster****s and possible solutions has been my raison d'etre as of late thanks to a pretty hellish month at work.

For anybody else that needs iit.

(ray-zohnn DET-ruh) A basic, essential purpose; a reason to exist: “Professor Naylor argues that in the nuclear age, infantry forces have lost their raison d’être.” From French, meaning “reason for being.”

[Jumbo]

Thats cool Dana, I'm not trying to twist your words or put words in your mouth. I'm just pointing out that the original change was never debated or discussed before it happened, it was something Blade thought would address the issue. I didn't blink an eye at the time a) because I had enormous respect for Blade's judgement (still do) and because I never anticipated the uproar it would cause. During the initial period, I felt like a decision had been made and it should be supported. But now, several years down the road, I don't see the purpose - if the members here continue to indicate the vast majority prefer the old system, I would hope that would be reimplemented, thats all.

No sweat, my brother. Me, I'm just trying to keep enough energy to do what I can here and still squeeze a little fun out of the deal.

The surface issue, the tailgate post count, isn't important enough to me personally to devote any kind of real energy to it even though I am as much or more a tailgater as a Stadium and ATN guy, in fact I've already posted way more on this than I meant to but the best interest of the board is something I (still) care about, so if it's something that matters to most other members, it really counts in my book.

[Jumbo]

I would have been surprised if you hadn't considered at least some of that

I'm not a staff member, though, so I might as well bring it up in open discussion. I'm somewhat interested in what you guys have actually talked about in terms of handling some of the issues posed by the sheer size of the Stadium. Also, discussing cluster****s and possible solutions has been my raison d'etre as of late thanks to a pretty hellish month at work.

I've always wanted to host an interactive info-entertainment thread like a blog about ES/Board matters and make it like "one mod's view" but I never knew if the rest of the staff would trust me to run it without creating problems :laugh: (and now time is even more a factor) .....balancing discretion with disclosure, using good judgment on behind the scenes stuff, and great stories about procedure and mod actions with members (protecting anonymity) etc would be fun.

[HOF44]

I've always wanted to host an interactive info-entertainment thread like a blog about ES/Board matters and make it like "one mod's view" but I never knew if the rest of the staff would trust me to run it without creating problems :laugh: (and now time is even more a factor) .....balancing discretion with disclosure, using good judgment on behind the scenes stuff, and great stories about procedure and mod actions with members (protecting anonymity) etc would be fun.

Now that would be an awesome idea. :applause:

[Enter Apotheosis]

I've always wanted to host an interactive info-entertainment thread like a blog about ES/Board matters and make it like "one mod's view" but I never knew if the rest of the staff would trust me to run it without creating problems :laugh: (and now time is even more a factor) .....balancing discretion with disclosure, using good judgment on behind the scenes stuff, and great stories about procedure and mod actions with members (protecting anonymity) etc would be fun.

I could see that being pretty entertaining... I could also see that getting out of hand fast if you slipped up

Edit: I guess I'll also just throw my two cents out there, while I'm still thinking about it. ES is very likely going to keep declining at a variable rate unless someone can figure out a system where the masses can more effectively police themselves with minimal moderator involvement. There is no easy solution but there are definitely ideas floating out there that could help (rating of individual posts w/higher ratings contributing to a "reward" of some sort, having a staging area for new threads where topics are locked for discussion until approved by member vote, etc.).

[Spaceman Spiff]

They should count because they do count for your Post Per Day average found on your profile.

[TK]

I've always wanted to host an interactive info-entertainment thread like a blog about ES/Board matters and make it like "one mod's view" but I never knew if the rest of the staff would trust me to run it without creating problems :laugh: (and now time is even more a factor) .....balancing discretion with disclosure, using good judgment on behind the scenes stuff, and great stories about procedure and mod actions with members (protecting anonymity) etc would be fun.

Dude.

There just ain't enough bandwidth for all of that.:laugh: