The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[@DCGoldPants]

Too bad they don't have any other Japanese guys on the roster I think. Put them together and make some Yakuza like "gang". 

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Here you go Matt:

And here he is doing Flair. **** is hilarious

[KDawg]

Foreign wrestlers who don't speak the language well are extremely difficult to give any kind of gimmick besides the stereotypical one. That simply can't connect with the audience or develop their character through speech.

It could be done, but you'd have to be sure that you wanted to invest that kind of time into a guy.

Having said that, it's not just black wrestlers they misuse. For every Big E there's a Sandow. For every R-Truth there's a Santino.

[Big Weirdo]

Here you go Matt:

And here he is doing Flair. **** is hilarious

He's gold. Did you get a new number? Hit me up. Let me know what's happening out there.

Foreign wrestlers who don't speak the language well are extremely difficult to give any kind of gimmick besides the stereotypical one. That simply can't connect with the audience or develop their character through speech.

It could be done, but you'd have to be sure that you wanted to invest that kind of time into a guy.

Having said that, it's not just black wrestlers they misuse. For every Big E there's a Sandow. For every R-Truth there's a Santino.

Santino is amazing though. He's a great comedy wrestler and never breaks character. The guy embraced what his gimmick was and actually made it work. Props to him. I went back and watched where he almost won Elimination Chamber and the guy had the entire arena on his side and this was during Bryan's rise to the top. Would have been an explosion had he actually won the damn thing.

Oh and I like Sandow but he's honestly not going anywhere with that gimmick. He'd be so much better as manager which is what they should transition him too. He can take bumps and he's fantastic on the mic.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Big Weirdo

[spjunkies]

He's gold. Did you get a new number? Hit me up. Let me know what's happening out there.

Santino is amazing though. He's a great comedy wrestler and never breaks character. The guy embraced what his gimmick was and actually made it work. Props to him. I went back and watched where he almost won Elimination Chamber and the guy had the entire arena on his side and this was during Bryan's rise to the top. Would have been an explosion had he actually won the damn thing.

Oh and I like Sandow but he's honestly not going anywhere with that gimmick. He'd be so much better as manager which is what they should transition him too. He can take bumps and he's fantastic on the mic.

 

Personally, I think Sandow would be better off as a commentator. It's about time for Jerry to go and JBL to start climbing mountains full time so he would make the perfect heel guy in the booth.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

He was so good at it. He really is great. Probably for the best he's never been in WWE. He's a great wrestler and doesn't need them to give him a gimmick where he wears Grillz and says NOW THATS WHACK!

Cole: "Here he is ladies and gentleman Jay Grillz!"

JBL: "Don't be whack Maggle! Haha I love it!"

Lmaoooo

Does he get to take the Go to Sleep back?

He's an awesome wrestler and STIFF as **** when he wants to be. You're right there they're gonna give him some ****ing samurai gimmick where he comes to the ring with a Japanese flag and yells Bonzai

You're probably right...Vince probably was watching old attitude shows and thought we needed new Kaientai

But seriously Kenta is sick man. He's had stiff wars in ROH I remember. I expect exactly zero of that in the WWE

[Big Weirdo]

Personally, I think Sandow would be better off as a commentator. It's about time for Jerry to go and JBL to start climbing mountains full time so he would make the perfect heel guy in the booth.

The King got neutered when he turned face and they went PG. King is way better we he can be offensive and insulting. Now he's just an old man making bad grandad jokes.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Annnnnnd I'm still having trouble with the network.

Nothing else I use streams as ****ty as it does. I restart a show at least 3 times a pop

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Did you get a new number? Hit me up. Let me know what's happening out there.

I'm mainly just...here. Stuck in the house until I get settled and **** figured out. And same number man. Had this damn number for 15 years now and I'm DMV through and through. Denver can kiss my ass and dial 703 if they need to talk to me. I'll hit you up

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Annnnnnd I'm still having trouble with the network.

Nothing else I use streams as ****ty as it does. I restart a show at least 3 times a pop

what are you streaming it through?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

what are you streaming it through?

My Mac

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

A Jerry Lawler creation.  Lawler tells a funny story about this on Steve Austin's podcast. 

 

Kamla is ridiculous. But that was Memphis. Memphis could ALMOST get away with gimmicks like this. Almost.

 

Ahmed Johnson COULD have been that guy, but he was just too crazy and hardheaded for his own good, and Stone Cold came onto the scene not long after Johnson hit his ceiling

 

Ahmed couldn't stop hurting people - including himself.

Foreign wrestlers who don't speak the language well are extremely difficult to give any kind of gimmick besides the stereotypical one. That simply can't connect with the audience or develop their character through speech.

 

 

If only there was a way in wrestling to have someone talk for someone who wasn't great at promos but could do everything else. Maybe someone who could pretend to "manage" the wrestler who doesn't talk well.

 

Anyone got any ideas?

[DM72]

If only there was a way in wrestling to have someone talk for someone who wasn't great at promos but could do everything else. Maybe someone who could pretend to "manage" the wrestler who doesn't talk well.

 

Anyone got any ideas?

 

Lol...Good one.

 

The Great Muta anyone?

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Vince McMahon just has a sick, juvenile sense of humor.

Simple as that

Lol...Good one.

The Great Muta anyone?

Muta was before my time. I know he was a great performer but was his gimmick stereotypical? I know he used mist

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Lol...Good one.

 

The Great Muta anyone?

 

 

Muta was incredible. And the fans were really really into him. WCW should have had a huge star for years with him, but it was WCW so...there you go.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Vince McMahon just has a sick, juvenile sense of humor.

Simple as that

Muta was before my time. I know he was a great performer but was his gimmick stereotypical? I know he used mist

 

He used mist, but that seemed more like a "tribute" to Kabuki than anything else.

 

It was a little bit stereotypical - silent Japanese guy who uses karate and sprays mist. But he was a legitimate Judo champion, and he more or less transcended that stuff in a hurry. He was basically portrayed as a wrestling machine who could do anything in the ring. Which was the truth. I mean he was innovating MMA-like submission wrestling while bring the Moonsault to the US and getting it all over at the same time. And he bled like a maniac.

[DM72]

Vince McMahon just has a sick, juvenile sense of humor.

Simple as that

Muta was before my time. I know he was a great performer but was his gimmick stereotypical? I know he used mist

 

I was just playing off of what LKB said. Kdawg implied that wrestlers that couldn't speak the language was reduced to being a stereotype. LKB made the point that "managers" were used to help get wrestlers over that couldn't speak. I used The Great Muta as an example of a wrestler that fits the bill of what LKB was talking about. 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I was just playing off of what LKB said. Kdawg implied that wrestlers that couldn't speak the language was reduced to being a stereotype. LKB made the point that "managers" were used to help get wrestlers over that couldn't speak. I used The Great Muta as an example of a wrestler that fits the bill of what LKB was talking about. 

 

 

And he got over with Gary Hart - who I personally love but who never really got over as a manager for a national promotion. Hart's character seemed too small time for a national promotion. Muta with Cornette or Heyman or Heenan would have been something else all together.

[DM72]

I thought Hart was a good heel manager. I'll never forget him busting on Dusty Rhode's sister. That was some funny stuff.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I thought Hart was a good heel manager. I'll never forget him busting on Dusty Rhode's sister. That was some funny stuff.

 

Hart was pretty good in the WWF. He was the second most important person in Memphis, I think. I'd rank him the best of the second-tier managers if that makes sense. In the WWF, he really needed to be with the right guy, because his whole schtick was that he was more annoying than sinister. He and Honkytonk Man were fabulous together. He probably saved the Adorable Adrian gimmick - as much as that could be saved. (I need to write a long post on that one some day). But his guys never seemed like a real threat to Hogan, the way Heenan's guys did.

 

He did take great bumps though. He was overshadowed by Heenan though, because Heenan could work better than most of the guys he managed.

 

Best managers ever:

 

1. Heenan - Could talk. Could bump. Could work. Made Andre the biggest heel ever just by appearing by his side.

 

2. Cornette - Best talker. Best gimmick. His one drawback is that he is too linked to one team.

 

3. Paul E. - The scary thing? He would be in this position even without his modern day WWE work. The Dangerous Alliance was the best angle in wrestling at a time when no one was watching wrestling. He also managed to turn Cornette face. Think about that.

 

4. Hart - Great bumper. Most annoying manager ever. Really good in Memphis. Pretty good in WWF. Terrible in WCW.

 

5. Blassie - if he could have taken more bumps as a manager, I would put him ahead of Hart

 

6. JJ Dillon  - for whatever reason, the Horsemen never completely worked without him

 

7. Albano - He was never really my favorite, but he's historically important and might have been the only babyface manager to ever get over when he turned Face in the 80s.

 

8. Miss Elizabeth - She did absolutely nothing. Never talked. Never bumped. Never interfered. But Savage is not Savage without her.

 

9. Sherri - She is the one female manager who could credibly get revenge taken upon her, because she looked like she could beat half the roster. If she had been around in the Attitude Era, she would have been the #2 heel behind Mr. McMahon.

 

10. Gary Hart - this is a personal preference. Kabuki legitimately terrified me as a kid and Hart really sold that.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

For fun.

 

Worst managers:

 

1. Paul Jones - Only thing of note he ever did was a never-ending feud with the terrible Jimmy Valiant. Managed awful wrestlers.

 

2. Paul Ellering - To this day, I don't know why the Road Warriors needed a manager. They didn't need to cheat to win as heels. They could both talk. They were generally faces because the

 

3. Sonny Onoo - I actually liked him but WCW had no idea what to do with him besides "Generic Japanese Stereotype"

 

4. Ted DiBiase - This pains me because DiBiase was an awesome wrestler, personality, and talker. But the Corporation sucked. It actually made Sid look weak. Sid!!!!

 

5. Mr. Fuji - So boring. So so boring.

[MattFancy]

No love for Paul Bearer?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

No love for Paul Bearer?

 

I liked Percy Pringle in World Class. I like Paul Bearer as a manager. I just don't think he was terribly important to that gimmick. He was more of a prop than anything else. He played that role really well, but he wasn't exactly a "manager" they way Cornette or Heenan were. I mean, the urn was more important in some ways than he was.

 

I really have a hard time putting Undertaker's career in perspective. It's so wrapped up in the gimmick and the mythology behind the gimmick - which is more complicated than a Comic Book character's mythology. And then you toss in the Streak - which is the one thing that the WWE has treated as a real sporting achievement in recent years....and they do that with their most cartoonish wrestler. It's all so weird.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[MattFancy]

I liked Percy Pringle in World Class. I like Paul Bearer as a manager. I just don't think he was terribly important to that gimmick. He was more of a prop than anything else. He played that role really well, but he wasn't exactly a "manager" they way Cornette or Heenan were. I mean, the urn was more important in some ways than he was.

 

I see your point. I guess when I think of recent managers, he's one that comes to mind. I'm not sure how much of an impact he made for Taker or Kane, but he seems to go hand and hand when you think of either one.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I see your point. I guess when I think of recent managers, he's one that comes to mind. I'm not sure how much of an impact he made for Taker or Kane, but he seems to go hand and hand when you think of either one.

 

In a weird way, Bearer was more like a valet than an manager, if you really stop to think about it. UT and Kane were often fighting over him.  It's closer to Matt Hardy and Edge fighting over Lita than a typical feud with a manager.

 

What made Bearer great was how he was up for anything they threw at him. Cornette had a question about him on a recent podcast. The question was whether it was disrespectful to use Paul Bearer's "ashes" in a storyline after he died. Cornette answered that Bearer was the biggest wrestling fan in the world and would have been thrilled to be involved in a Wrestlemania match after his death.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother