Conditioning -- Will we have it?

[skinsfan4221977]

My father (a Redskins fan since he worked for them as a photographer in 1972) and I recently had a conversation about conditioning and how much it affected the team last year.  As we all know, the team was prone to start games strong and fizz out in the fourth quarter.  What many people probably didn't realize is that they also tended to play poorly toward the end of the second quarter -- right before halftime break.  If you combine these observations with the team's staggering injuries, it's hard not to think of a lack of conditioning as a major culprit.  This extends not only to players getting hurt, but also the substitutes who replace them.  And when you look at Jay Gruden and his sometimes criticized lack of intensity and somewhat autonomous "workout optional"-heavy style of coaching, it's hard to see this changing much while he's still around.

I think everyone with vision greater than Ray Charles can see Cousins was not a "clutch" quarterback, his admirable statistics notwithstanding.  

Can anybody produce any evidence that Gruden "got the message" on this issue?  Because otherwise, I'm betting this could be his last year.  Of course, I hope I'm wrong.  

[pjfootballer]

It’s like deja vu all over again.

[Bonez3]

I love the question. Fact is, examples of success in the NFL have been linked to this very factor over and over. TB12 being the poster child. But sleep science, cryotherapy and diet is growing in popularity and recognized as crucial components to optimal performance.

 

This very question was #1 in my mind midway through last year. Snyder, IMO, should devote serious resources into this. 

[NoCalMike]

I think part of the issue is when you have lack of depth on the team, whether it is due to injuries or the coaches have no confidence in rotation players being able to make crucial plays in crunch time. 

 

I don't think it's as simple as saying "out of shape"

[dcdiscokid]

Bmitch talked about this on his show the other day, its the fact the dont hit anymore. You cant not hit then all of a sudden take 50 reps of hitting... These players need to realize for themselves the rules and coaches be damned, get your self ready to play in a football game...

[Cooleyfan1993]

for the "workout optional" thing, well, that's just what the NFL's offseason conditioning program and OTA's are...workout optional. so its hard to expect EVERY player showing up to Redskins Park right away in April. I think the main thing that has to be changed is the way gruden does training camp. I think the team has a wayyyyy too easy time during training camp, so I hope that changes this summer. 

[zCommander]

Did you not hear that Bruce has ordered some more hot tubs outfitted with shampoo and conditioners. 

 

https://aquamagazine.com/features/scoring-with-wellness.html

 

Joking aside, talk a look at this: http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/A-Week-In-The-Redskins-Weight-Room/941af7ac-d1e3-4e85-9add-a53504c9cb0f

[Darrell Green Fan]

Actually there was evidence that Kirk was clutch but that ship has sailed.  

[SkinsGuy]

12 hours ago, zskins said:

Joking aside, talk a look at this: http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/A-Week-In-The-Redskins-Weight-Room/941af7ac-d1e3-4e85-9add-a53504c9cb0f

 

The problem with this article is that it focuses on the weight room workouts.

 

Not much there about how much cardiovascular work the players do. The type of heavy cardio workouts that will give the players stamina to get through an intense, 60 minute game. That's been one of their main problems. Not strength, but many players seem to gas out halfway through the game before halftime, and again in the 4th quarter.

 

Do they even have these type of intense cardio workouts?

[zoony]

The problem is our lack of a running game, not conditioning.  Teams wear us down, not vice versa

[Bonez3]

I feel there is so much opportunity with strength and conditioning as a whole. Muscle endurance being far more important to me, the idea of replicating optimal strength over extended time.

 

Take the combine, the bench press rep is flawed to me. If I wanted to assess this component of strength I would make them do a cycle of 235 X5 with 1 minute break in between. Strategy obviously to not max out on first set. I would like to see top ends from cycle 1-5 and weigh out sustained reps for participants. 

 

Same for the 40... 5 sets  30 seconds apart, simulating game activity. See who remains 'quick' and those that 'gas out' after 1 or 2 reps. 

 

I just think there are so many better ways to assess conditioning. 

[Gibbit]

 our waterboys need to be squirting concoctions of redbull and extra strength five hour energys during timeouts

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

For a fact, I know I have conditioning.  Air conditioning. Keeps me nice and cool during the summer months. 

[NickyJ]

We are already conditioned. There isn't a season that goes by that we don't expect to be within 1 game of 8-8. If that's not conditioning, I don't know what is.

[Wildbunny]

On 05/04/2018 at 11:28 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Actually there was evidence that Kirk was clutch but that drakkar has sailed.  

Fixed it for you 

[Warhead36]

This might be mindfacting but I feel like a lot of our injuries are lower body/flexibility related. I look at Deuce Gruden as the culprit of this. He looks like a guy who emphasizes upper body but as they say "ignores leg day." I'm hoping new trainers can institute a new training regiment.

 

The lack of hitting in practice is oversold though. Nobody hits in practice in today's NFL. Its a softer league.

[zCommander]

17 hours ago, Gibbit said:

 our waterboys need to be squirting concoctions of redbull and extra strength five hour energys during timeouts

 

 

 

Vokda and RedBull should be administrated instead. This way when a player gets hit they won't even feel it.

[goskins10]

Cheap shot at Cousins and Jay not withstanding this is a fair question. Based on the data, anyone thinking this is a Redskins issue in terms of injuries has just not been looking outside the team. Yes, as @TK said much of the getting tired is lack of running game. But the injury issue and even some of the conditioning thing is a league wide problem that I believe is the effects of the ridiculous contract the players signed - they got their heads handed to them and there is just no other way to put it. Almost everything they "won" is hurting them long term, especially the rules about practices and contact which would at least appear to impacting their health and conditioning. 

 

Here are the average games lost due to injury by team over the last 6 yrs:

2012 - 168

2013 - 167

2014 - 177

2015 - 152

2016 - 193

2017 - 236

 

One might try to argue that concussions would explain much of the increase since it's really just been the last few years it's increased dramatically. But here is some data from a San Diego paper that shows where the injuries come from and concussions are not listed in the top 5. For me, if they are the cause of the recent increase then it would be reasonable to expect concussions to be in the top 5. In fact, there were only (not making light, just reporting data) 218 concussions reported last year - lowest number since 2014. That chart is also below. There is also the make up of players also. Do they come out easier? If so, there it's probably a combination of a good and bad thing. Some may be milking it but others are being smarter and taking them selves out to prevent longer term damage. 

 

Again though, this is not a Redskins only problem. It's an NFL problem. One they need to get a handle on. 

 

Source - http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-nfl-injury-totals-teams-most-0108-story.html

 

Source - https://www.playsmartplaysafe.com/newsroom/reports/2016-injury-data/

 

 

 

[skinsmania123]

First let's keep Cousin's out of this - best conditioned guy on the team last year IMO.  I mean his name does not even belong in this thread.

 

I don't know what is going on. We can speculate all day long but our team had an extraordinary amount of injuries last year and they better look at everything. 

 

But I have to say they DID look gassed to me by the end of the 2nd quarter. My friend and I used to joke about it.    But then I thought tough schedule. Back to back little rest, with a couple of the games, and sort of blow it off.  But if your not in good cardio shape your going to have an injury at some point.

 

Something is wrong.  Hey if they think a new conditioning program, new trainers are going to help.  What the hell.

[Rocky52Mc]

On 4/5/2018 at 2:02 PM, zoony said:

The problem is our lack of a running game, not conditioning.  Teams wear us down, not vice versa

 

Have to agree with this. We need balance. I'll take the capability to throw 350 yards in a game but save it for when you need it. Run the hell out of the ball and beat their defense into submission with the ground and this will open up all the short and underneath routes to kill them with YAC.

[Bang]

good points.. i think the OP is spot on in raising the question..  the Redskins DID run down last year,.. more than i care to recall we gave up a big drive and score right before halftime.  Zoony is also right,, much of that blame is pointed to our inability to control the ball.

But when you look at the injuries not just this year, but it seems like the last several years.. the number of lower body injuries, particularly to ankles and legs .. i think it HAS to be looked at. Injuries are often flukes, but not always. Given the bug seems to have set up house in Redskins Park, all possible answers must be examined. If that means better cardio, I can't see at all how it could hurt.

 

~Bang

[Warhead36]

We also need to focus more on injury prevention rather than straight up recovery.