Fergasun Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 With an impending shutdown, time to play the "blame the other guy" game. These shutdowns and short term CRs are the dumbest game in town. What did the extra 2 months buy? Neither party really wants to compromise, they both are using this to highlight election year differences/play to the base. Whatever deal they make in 4 weeks can be done in 4 days. Senate rejects House CR, Senate passes agreement, and House/Trump respond. I wish we really did have 100 independent Senators -- so seeing that multiple are talking to each other is encouraging... but its obvious some Senators are sick of this.... hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 The Republicans have been obstructionist since Clinton 42. They only pass tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations regardless of deficits. They raided Social Security and haven't paid it back. They really bore down the day Obama was inaugurated, even to the extent of blocking his Supreme Court nominee, subverting the Constitution. In fact, they subvert the Constitution every time to get their way. I am sick of these traitors to our country, and I hope they suffer defeat this year and in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 So the white house republican, House republican, senate Republican..... First time in history govt is shut down with one party in control on all 3.... Trump fail..... Bum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I think one of the things that damned this particular CR (other than politics) is that on every piece of major legislation the Republican leaders have locked the Dems out of the room. They were not allowed to help in drafting, none of their ideas were addressed or added into the bill, and the Republicans basically had a "my way or the highway" attitude towards all legislation... and it just hasn't worked. Even with this CR, their "my way or the highway" failed. It didn't only fail to not woo the Democrats, but they continued to get defections from their own party. Somehow, especially on these bills that normally require sixty votes, the Republicans need to start working together. You can't just say "We wrote a bill. Now, vote on it." Governance is the art of the compromise. It is the art of deal making. Republicans, partly due to their hatred of education have decided that compromise and bipartisanship are four letter words. I also think that all the "screw yous" written into the tax reform bill penalizing blue states probably didn't make the Dems feel all that cooperative. Now, in fairness, I don't know that the Democrats should hold the government hostage for DACA. I'm not sure that should be part of a CR. It seems apart from a "fund the government" issue. Still, if Republicans never let you at the table when you have some leverage I suppose you have to use it. Republicans tried this too in the CR, by holding CHIP hostage and saying they would free it if the Democrats would pay for it with their CR votes. The result of brinksmanship and each side being tough is that sometimes parties don't blink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 It’s the Republican’s fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Burgold said: The result of brinksmanship and each side being tough is that sometimes parties don't blink. I don't think this is about brinksmanship. It's about Trump dealing in bad faith. Schumer blamed Trump for the collapse, not the GoP conference in the Senate. Reports indicated that they had a deal that fixed DACA and in return Democrats would support funding his Wall and Trump backed out later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Fergasun said: With an impending shutdown, time to play the "blame the other guy" game. These shutdowns and short term CRs are the dumbest game in town. What did the extra 2 months buy? Neither party really wants to compromise, they both are using this to highlight election year differences/play to the base. Whatever deal they make in 4 weeks can be done in 4 days. Senate rejects House CR, Senate passes agreement, and House/Trump respond. I wish we really did have 100 independent Senators -- so seeing that multiple are talking to each other is encouraging... but its obvious some Senators are sick of this.... hopefully. Isn't it 2018? My guess, this shutdown lasts a week or less. A deal will be made before Putin's Little ****'s State of the Union speech on 1/30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I don't think this is about brinksmanship. It's about Trump dealing in bad faith. Schumer blamed Trump for the collapse, not the GoP conference in the Senate. Reports indicated that they had a deal that fixed DACA and in return Democrats would support funding his Wall and Trump backed out later. Trump doesn't have a single thought on his own. He follows what his masters in the right wing media- Talk Radio and Fox & Friends tell him to do. Whatever he may agree to today, after he hears what his masters tell him to do; he then proceeds to blow up whatever deal will be made. You can't trust Trump one bit. Just agree to something and pass it and then hope Trump signs it. If he doesn't, then it's on Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Springfield said: It’s the Republican’s politicians fault. FTFY I will say that the GOP should have stopped worrying about what Trump wants. They should have hammered out a deal and sent it to him. Let him veto it. He doesn't have the balls to do that. Then the shutdown would have squarely been on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: FTFY I will say that the GOP should have stopped worrying about what Trump wants. They should have hammered out a deal and sent it to him. Let him veto it. He doesn't have the balls to do that. Then the shutdown would have squarely been on him. By and large, I’m blaming the republicans. They control everything. If they are so inflexible to get 9 Democrat votes swayed their way, then this is on them. Plus, their willingness to shut down the government during the Obama presidency is a huge knock on the way they handle the budget. Plus, Trump is a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 The issue is over DACA, which is only an issue because Trump decided to rescind it (presumably knowing Congress would fail to pass it). Republicans also decided to withhold funding CHIP so they could use it as a bargaining chip (holding kids health insurance hostage) so Democrats wouldn’t get TOO much of their way with immigrantion. They could have passed CHIP funding with unanimous support any time in the last 4 months. Interestingly enough, the Senate apparently has an immigration comprise that would pass if McConnell would bring it to a vote. But so far he’s refusing. But yeah, both sides or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 I don't see this lasting through Monday and I don't see a DACA or sequestration cap fix. The Dems want to cement the GOP as anti-dreamer. The GOP want to cement themselves as pro-immigrant. Political followers like me don't need this, the shutdown is for low info voters who only follow Big News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallen5862 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Senator McConnell said the earliest the Senate can vote to end the Shutdown is 1aM on Monday! Senator McConnell said that will be when the vote will be unless the Democrats allow an earlier vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said: The issue is over DACA, Seems to be, I read that this is the first shutdown ever over a non-budget issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 What gets me is that the Democrats have voted four times in 2017 to forestall a government resolution. That is, they worked with the President and GOP majority to keep the government funded. In the meantime, the Republicans have promised they would resolve DACA, resolve CHIP, and work on many other issues that they have outright ignored. In Dec. the D's voted with the R's... "just eight Democratic senators voted against a CR on December 7. That number increased the next time it came up for a vote on December 22, when a total of 29 Democratic senators, plus Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), voted against it." https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/16906202/government-shutdown-2018-congress-what-we-know How long does the Republican Party plan to kick the budget down the road? How long do they plan to kick resolution on issues they promised to address down the road? Why on Earth should the Democrats think they will uphold their responsibilities or their word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, twa said: Seems to be, I read that this is the first shutdown ever over a non-budget issue. I believe the 2013 shutdown was largely over Obamacare funding which was not (directly) budget related. Republicans shut down the government in 2013 because they wanted to take away people’s healthcare. Democrats (and centrist Republicans) shut down the government in 2018 because they refused to allow promises about not deporting kids from their high school classrooms to go unkept. #bothsides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I think we should apply the transition tag to DACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Trump suggests going nuclear on budget deal. Dem minority whip says “I can tell you that would be the end of the Senate as it was originally devised and created going back to our founding fathers,” https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-durbin-nuclear-option-353881 Odd the Dems going nuclear before didn't......or did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, twa said: Odd the Dems going nuclear before didn't......or did it? Well you know, nobody goes nuclear like Trump. Believe me. Fire and fury like the world has never seen and whatnot. That was one nice thing about W... we never had to worry about him going nuclear. Nucular, yes. Never nuclear though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I don't see this impasse ending easily or quickly. They had a deal in place last week and the Republicans suddenly backed out of it. If the Democrats cave at this point, they'll look weak to their constituents and basically message the fact that they can get pushed around. If the Republicans back down and revert to last weak's deal, the same holds true for them. I'm sure the "Art of the Deal" wizard is well-aware that a key part of any complex negotiation is making sure people come out looking/feeling like they got something out of it, even if in reality, they were robbed blind. Instead, he's doing the exact opposite. It's going to come down to who feels the most insecure about their prospects in November (amongst Ultra right Republicans, moderate Republicans and Democrats). Out of those three, I'd say Ultra right Republicans are in the strongest position, while moderate Republicans are the weakest. (You could make a case to me that its the Democrats in the weakest position, just given the sheer number of senate seats they'll be trying to defend) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Leader McConnellVerified account @SenateMajLdr Jan 19 More The facts before us are simple. Right now, the Democratic leader has no compromise immigration bill on the table. No bill exists. Why do Americans need to suffer from a government shutdown when he doesn’t even have an immigration bill? 5,442 replies8,484 retweets18,945 likes True or false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Why should this be protracted? By Tuesday the Democrats will have made their point, and the GOP promise on DACA plus their anti-immigrant stand will be solidified. Schumer can come back and say "we are not the party of 'take my ball and go home' ". I don't know -- that is how I would play it if I were the Dems. If I were the GOP I would have worked on the spending/budget cap and DACA issue in January. Now we actually have to worry about the WH too, because Trump is such a wild card.... sounded like he had a deal with Schumer, but his advisors kneecap'd it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 95% of Dems voted to shut it down, how is that not take my ball and go home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 They voted against it because the GOP failed to negotiate in good faith. But as always, feel free to troll us some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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