TGI Jef Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Hello all – I have not been here for a while, but the recent insanity has driven me back to ES for the time being. I have had this on my mind over the past few days, and wanted to get some thoughts. This was truly Dan Snyder’s last chance to fail with a new ownership model. Dan Snyder failed after he overpaid aging free agents. He failed after he overpaid young, mediocore free agents. He even failed giving fair market contracts to elite, in-prime free agents playing a position of need (I still believe that, despite how it turned out, the guarnateed money and the fit made Haynesworth the correct decision at the time. Every NFL team knew he had issues, but few could have predicted such a devolution.) Snyder failed after he hired a legendary, franchise-defining coach. He failed after he hired a young, allegedly up-and-coming coach. He failed after he hired another team’s Super Bowl-winning coach. He failed when he opted against a traditional General Manager. He failed with a traditional General manager. Dan Snyder’s team failed with veteran quarterbacks. It failed twice when trading valuable draft assets to move up for a quarterback. His team failed when it traded for and gave needlessly huge money to a division rival’s aging franchise quarterback. Dan Snyder has failed building through free agency. He has failed building through the draft (2011 was a failure of epic proportions). Hiring Scot McCloughan, a premier NFL talent evaluator, was truly the last rebranding opportunity left for Dan Snyder. Doing things the right way – the way successful, sane, winning organizations do things – was all that remained on the “Ways to Own a Team” checklist. McCloughan had documented personal demons, and they were openly part of the package deal for any organization that also desired his knack for building high-energy, spirited, championship-caliber football teams. Dan Snyder almost didn’t fail this time, but in the end he couldn’t help himself. It has been his most spectacular failure yet. So I ask other fans – what can possibly get you excited now? I know that, come July or August, all of us will have our annually-renewed excitement and our high expectations. Everyone who still cares enough to post or read here probably does it because they can still talk themselves into 10-6 every August. But now that Snyder has demolished every existing model of how to run a football organization, what can be done now? I expect the answers to be “get another real GM and try doing things the right way again.” I won’t disagree with those answers at all, but will be curious how we can possibly expect things to be different next time. There has been speculation that Bruce Allen’s spot is 200% secure until a new stadium is built, and I have absolutely zero doubt that they are correct. We used to blame the Redskins’ on-field issues on the fact that ownership ran the franchise like a business. Now it’s a political party at times, as well. Here is my answer to my own question: 1. Trade Kirk. He has performed admirably for any quarterback, much less one that has dealt with such circumstances – and definitley much less one who was taken in the middle of the draft to begin with, but it is time to cut bait and gain quality assets before it’s too late. 2. BPA (within reason, of course) with every pick, and pray that some of those BPAs are on the defensive line. 3. Go with a 3-headed monster at RB. I honestly still believe Matt Jones has a future in the NFL. A Fat Rob/Jones/Thompson backfield will take the heat off of whoever is starting at QB, and will easily complement the other offensive weapons within Jay’s offense. 4. Hire a new GM. Don’t claim that he will have full control, because that isn’t possible with this ownership. Be transparent about job responsibilities, but at least bring in a GM who knows scouting, knows how to build a team around Jay’s offense, and who can be confident in initial job security (relatively speaking, of course). 5. Change the name when a new stadium is built. I have (thankfully, I assume) not read about this debate on this forum. I think the name is going to change eventually, and if that is the case I think a new stadium (in the not-so-distant future) is when it has to happen. This past week has been as low as a franchise can go. It has transcended football incompetence, and waded into the gray area of personal attack’s on a human being. It has been disgusting, and the only way to rid of this is with an entire renaming and rebranding. I was 50/50 on the name change before this week, but am now certain that I want it included as part of whatever plan emerges going forward. I can’t imagine Dan disagrees – after all, maybe that is his last new way to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortcut Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Man..... reading the summary of events from the past 15 + years makes it really tough to continue.... I like your ideas and do believe that perhaps if Snyder does want to carry on, or at the very least show compassion for fans and the team, he should think about a few of these. Yet in hindsight asking any billionaire to check his ego and have some humility is very rare. Good post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotfire Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 That was kind of awesome. There really isn't anything left. When a nice guy like Kirk refuses to sing long term, you know something is unfixably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Danny boy is still pretty young. I'm sure theres going to be all sorts of new and exciting ways to screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 i don't think there's an ounce of emotion left to re-engage i think that's a 'toothpaste out of the tube' problem, too i'm never going to be able to look at this franchise even when things are good and not think "that other shoe will drop soon" i don't see the point anymore i feel depressed, but it's just apathy. 100% inability to care. i don't even know how many more times i'm going to bother coming to the forum... the team has been among the top, and at times the #1, passion for me. i didn't think this was possible. i'm embarrassed to show my face to friends and coworkers - they know what the team has meant to me, and i know what they're thinking. this is so much worse than griffin. so much worse. i didn't think that was possible either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 i feel like we could make our own factory of sadness video except instead of spending all this time laying out a detailed arguments of the ****ups and embarssments, just stare at the ground give it a good 45 seconds then walk away. there's just no explanation needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailer21 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I can't put faith in anything Snyder runs - he has failed this organization in the ways you've outlined and done nothing but disappoint through a laundry list of others. Here is a good list to add to the discussion: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/article/13039846/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder At this point, I really believe there is no way the Skins can return to sustained success with Snyder as the owner. Any glimmer of hope is destined to be squashed out by some mish-mash of ego, incompetence and pettiness. As a fan of the Redskins, I think it's time to boycott - not stick with the status quo. Supporting the Redskins and supporting Snyder are conflated by what some on here call loyalty. That's fine but I just disagree with that - my loyalty is with the Redskins, not Snyder. Long story short, there is no way forward IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Being a Redskins fan, particularly if you've experienced the glory years, has been much greater than having to endure the jackass that's been in charge of the organization for the past 18 seasons. I do think Snyder/Allen will hire a GM to replace McCloughan. I think that, unless Kirk absolutely wants out of here, that they need to find a way to LTD him. A lot of folks on here have likely already priced his impending departure into their feelings, but that departure isn't a reality yet. If a trade does happen before the 2017 season and Kirk leaves, you are going to have a true earthquake within the fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Doug Williams at GM, trot out the Lombardi trophy, claim that the GM will have final control over personnel for real this time. Three way trade with the 49ers and Pats that gets us Jimmy G, gets the 49ers Cousins, and gets the Pats a couple high draft picks. Announce a new stadium deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Straighten out the front office, whether that means firing bruce or not is up to what the truth is. Then one free day at the stadium for any and all ticket holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Fire Bruce Allen. Fire Tony Wylie. Sign Kirk Cousins. Promote front office from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingarthur65 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Is there any benefit Snyder can bring to this organization? He seems to be one of the most unlikable people that I've ever seen in this type of position. His managerial skills are definitely lacking. I don't know of any personal relationships he's had with any players or coaches except RGIII. Cousins seems to have a problem even negotiating with Snyder and Allen. I think the best thing these two guys can do is to embrace the assholes that they are. No need to negotiate with Kirk and his agent. Just publish your best offer. Post it online. Every detail. Then send the offer to Kirk and his agent. Kirk isn't allowed to negotiate with any other teams. No one is going to outbid you. Remove your personalities from the process. It just might mitigate some of the contempt that Kirk, his agents and us pissed off fans have for these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Win. It's really as simple as that. Win several years in a row. We have shown we can grit through tough times and roll up our sleeves if we see progress. We have shown we can weather storms even in a house with no walls. We have shown we can bale out a boat even after it's completely submerged. Imagine what we'd be like if the team won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsMayne Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Honestly I think it's kinda silly to rag on Dan about what has happened. No indication he was involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Snyder to sell the team. As long as Snyder owns the team, this will be the S.O.P. You will get an occasional playoff appearance. You will not get a team that consistently be a contender. This team may win a Superbowl by a fluke. Team gets hot and rolls all the way into a Superbowl win. Then the next season, we go 0-16. If if Snyder fires everyone and hires a GM that has real GM powers; Snyder will **** that up within 2-3 years. No, this team can't win consistently under Snyder and will never will. Snyder is 52, we probably have another 25 years or more of him being the owner. Many of us will be dead by the time this team is Snyder free. I will remain a fan but I no longer expect much from this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkoucheki Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 6 hours ago, TGI Jef said: Hello all – I have not been here for a while, but the recent insanity has driven me back to ES for the time being. I have had this on my mind over the past few days, and wanted to get some thoughts. This was truly Dan Snyder’s last chance to fail with a new ownership model. Dan Snyder failed after he overpaid aging free agents. He failed after he overpaid young, mediocore free agents. He even failed giving fair market contracts to elite, in-prime free agents playing a position of need (I still believe that, despite how it turned out, the guarnateed money and the fit made Haynesworth the correct decision at the time. Every NFL team knew he had issues, but few could have predicted such a devolution.) Snyder failed after he hired a legendary, franchise-defining coach. He failed after he hired a young, allegedly up-and-coming coach. He failed after he hired another team’s Super Bowl-winning coach. He failed when he opted against a traditional General Manager. He failed with a traditional General manager. Dan Snyder’s team failed with veteran quarterbacks. It failed twice when trading valuable draft assets to move up for a quarterback. His team failed when it traded for and gave needlessly huge money to a division rival’s aging franchise quarterback. Dan Snyder has failed building through free agency. He has failed building through the draft (2011 was a failure of epic proportions). Hiring Scot McCloughan, a premier NFL talent evaluator, was truly the last rebranding opportunity left for Dan Snyder. Doing things the right way – the way successful, sane, winning organizations do things – was all that remained on the “Ways to Own a Team” checklist. McCloughan had documented personal demons, and they were openly part of the package deal for any organization that also desired his knack for building high-energy, spirited, championship-caliber football teams. Dan Snyder almost didn’t fail this time, but in the end he couldn’t help himself. It has been his most spectacular failure yet. So I ask other fans – what can possibly get you excited now? I know that, come July or August, all of us will have our annually-renewed excitement and our high expectations. Everyone who still cares enough to post or read here probably does it because they can still talk themselves into 10-6 every August. But now that Snyder has demolished every existing model of how to run a football organization, what can be done now? I expect the answers to be “get another real GM and try doing things the right way again.” I won’t disagree with those answers at all, but will be curious how we can possibly expect things to be different next time. There has been speculation that Bruce Allen’s spot is 200% secure until a new stadium is built, and I have absolutely zero doubt that they are correct. We used to blame the Redskins’ on-field issues on the fact that ownership ran the franchise like a business. Now it’s a political party at times, as well. Here is my answer to my own question: 1. Trade Kirk. He has performed admirably for any quarterback, much less one that has dealt with such circumstances – and definitley much less one who was taken in the middle of the draft to begin with, but it is time to cut bait and gain quality assets before it’s too late. 2. BPA (within reason, of course) with every pick, and pray that some of those BPAs are on the defensive line. 3. Go with a 3-headed monster at RB. I honestly still believe Matt Jones has a future in the NFL. A Fat Rob/Jones/Thompson backfield will take the heat off of whoever is starting at QB, and will easily complement the other offensive weapons within Jay’s offense. 4. Hire a new GM. Don’t claim that he will have full control, because that isn’t possible with this ownership. Be transparent about job responsibilities, but at least bring in a GM who knows scouting, knows how to build a team around Jay’s offense, and who can be confident in initial job security (relatively speaking, of course). 5. Change the name when a new stadium is built. I have (thankfully, I assume) not read about this debate on this forum. I think the name is going to change eventually, and if that is the case I think a new stadium (in the not-so-distant future) is when it has to happen. This past week has been as low as a franchise can go. It has transcended football incompetence, and waded into the gray area of personal attack’s on a human being. It has been disgusting, and the only way to rid of this is with an entire renaming and rebranding. I was 50/50 on the name change before this week, but am now certain that I want it included as part of whatever plan emerges going forward. I can’t imagine Dan disagrees – after all, maybe that is his last new way to fail. That was thorough, and kind of amazing. But there IS something else he can try. Hire a personnel guy from another sport entirely. Like the NHL. and make him the GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Solution? There is only one acceptable path forward. 1 - Hire and empower a GM. 2 - Keep Kirk. 3 - Improve the roster over last year. Anything less than that is failure with a marketing spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 20 hours ago, Burgold said: Win. It's really as simple as that. Win several years in a row. Didn't they just have two winning seasons in a row? The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 50 minutes ago, The Rook said: Didn't they just have two winning seasons in a row? The Rook Yes and no. 8-7-1 is technically a winning season, but it's really a rationalized one. Even so, as a fanbase, most of us felt okay about the team following 8-7-1. In fact, there were very few grumblers until the McCloughan smoke started rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I doubt we will witness an on the field decline this year. Free agency is going pretty well. Tomsula is an underrated addition to the D coaching staff. Dallas lost 2 OL, their secondary is decimated and are playing a 1st place schedule. A 10-6 mark for us is very reasonable. Winning cures everything temporarily. The sky is falling sentiment will dissipate fairly quickly this year in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsPassion4Life Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 We need a new PR staff.....that's the biggest problem by far....not Dan or Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Has any one suggested a day without Redskin fans. Have it on draft day party or at fan appreciation day in Richmond or a preseason game. It seems to be the thing to do these days to get a point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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