The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[purbeast]

For some reason people seem to think that good quarterbacks are supposed to do poorly against poor secondaries.  I never understood how people are using it as a negative that KC played well against a ****ty secondary.  That is what decent QB's are supposed to do - shred them.  

 

Then you will have the people say "well he can't do that against a good team!"  Well good teams are good for a reason - they have good defenses and offenses typically.

 

But hey, Eli Manning only scored 16 against the Packers.  Russel Wilson only scored 10 points against the packers.  I guess those QB's are awful since they couldn't come close to what KC did against the Packers.

[srtman04]

30 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract.

 

Wow just wow.  If this turns out to be true we have complete ****ing idiots and snowflakes running this organization.  Someone make the madness stop, please!

[scruffylookin]

31 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract.

 

I would say without a doubt you are correct about that.

 

I was very disappointed in Cousins' performance against Carolina and New York and felt in both cases "he lost money" due to coming up small, but he is a back to back Redskins total passing yards record holder and you are correct to say that if RG3, after subpar 2013 and 2014, came back to put up the exact numbers of Cousins and the Redskins won the exact number of games, he'd be the highest paid QB in the NFL right now. Period.

 

And this is the problem with our Front Office, specifically our owner, who get chummy with "star" players.

[jphilly]

Right now the NFCE is on the rise the teams are all pretty close and up and coming . If the FO does not get KC deal done its almost like they say hell with it we want to live in the basement .  Skins have knocked the ish out of the Eagles led by Kirk . As a Eagles fan I wish I could say Id love to see them mess up , but as a football fan I hate it . Id love for all division games to be nail biters which all 4 teams are about there . 

[Jericho]

28 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

I love the current Kirk will likely be traded this weekend suggestion that NFL analysts are throwing around - Would not Kirk need to be under contract for us to trade him? AND there would ned to be some kind of contract framework in place - which would to me suggest 9ers have had discussions with Kirk which sound to me a lot like tampering - Sure Kirk is an FA this season but not until the 9th of March (man is free agency really more than 2 weeks away - we have to put up with this garbage reporting for two more weeks .... please someone make it stop 

 

 

He is under contract...for now. Once the new league season starts (March 9 as you stated), he won't be. But if the team is serious about trading him (before the new season starts), they can grant permission to any team to talk to him. It's very common in trades like this where someone is a pending free agent. And remember, the team can and likely will tag him. Meaning any team can trade for Cousins and have him tagged too. After March 9, any team can talk to Cousins unless the team gives him an exclusive franchise tag.

[Taylor703]

14 minutes ago, purbeast said:

For some reason people seem to think that good quarterbacks are supposed to do poorly against poor secondaries.  I never understood how people are using it as a negative that KC played well against a ****ty secondary.  That is what decent QB's are supposed to do - shred them.  

 

Then you will have the people say "well he can't do that against a good team!"  Well good teams are good for a reason - they have good defenses and offenses typically.

 

But hey, Eli Manning only scored 16 against the Packers.  Russel Wilson only scored 10 points against the packers.  I guess those QB's are awful since they couldn't come close to what KC did against the Packers.

 

Yeah, except Eli and Russell lost in the playoffs. 

[scruffylookin]

19 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Look, KC is a good QB. He is not elite and he wants elite money. My complaint is that he has a tendency to throw ints when they hurt the most. If the Redskins thought he was elite they would have signed him long term last year.  He is not Ben, Arron or Drew or anything close to elite and I think the money he wants can be spent better in other ways. That's all. Now if he signs a long term deal for what is his true worth I would say fine but 23mil, wtf

 

He has been elite the last two seasons. Drew Brees was the starter in New Orleans for 3 seasons before winning the super bowl. He didn't even make the playoffs for New Orleans until that Super Bowl Season. What do you think he would have gotten if he were a FA in say 2007 or 2008? I'd say he would have been paid like an elite QB.

 

The important thing is that Cousins will get 23 or more by someone. What he is asking for is not outrageous. If it were, then don't franchise him. Let him hit the open market. Or transition tag him with the right to match. Let's see what the market is.

 

Lastly, as already been mentioned, Cousins will be the highest paid QB for about a season (if that). When all the other new deals start coming in, his 23 or 25 mil a year deal will drop to about 8 to 12. Exactly where he ranks.

[zoony]

This is shaping up to be Brad Johnson 2.0

[onedrop]

6 hours ago, Stefanskins said:

lol I was drinking at a bar the other night and I saw on the ticker in huge capital letters "COUSINS TRADED...."...I bout choked on my chicken wing (not a euphemism....but I may start using it as one)....lol ESPN, or whoever it was, trolled me...cause they knew I didn't know who Demarcus Cousins was...good one Espen...good one...

 

Based on recent posts maybe you should go boneless from now on.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Alexa said:

Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract.

While I don't believe this is the sole reason Kirk doesn't have a contract, it would require a view through some very burgundy and gold glasses, to entirely dismiss your theory.  I'm sure that deep down Kirk's success is a thorn in the side of Dan, who was in love with Griffin and now looks like a complete buffoon for betting the farm on him, only to have the red weasel look like Quarterbackstradamus for drafting Kirk and continuing to this day to go on and on in the media about how great he is.

[Taylor 36]

12 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

Im not into reading completely wrong opinions on this forum and arguing with people on message forums who want to quote things like you did there and not answer the actual point being made. If I was doing what you just did there then. I would be embarrassed

 

Just because you quote me and are rude to a stranger doesn't make you right. Simply saying QBs get paid doesn't tell the story as to why one guy is paid one million for a season and another is paid 25 times that. I highly suggest you act more professional in the future and try to understand someone before verbally attacking them.

 

As for my knowledge of this game and how the NFL works I'm sure I would amaze you with what I know. 

 

I'm honest saying Kirk isn't clutch and point out how he's middle of the pack and no where near worth top five money which is why he's not been signed because we aren't a team that's been dumb in free agency lately should be listened to not shouted down like this.

 

I am a die hard Redskins fan and always will be and we are in a tough spot here. The best move is to move on from him before anchoring our franchise with a guy who can throw 5000 yards but only 25 TDs which is record breaking for futility because he isn't worth anywhere near 25 million a year and we have a long history showing what happens to teams with expensive bad QB contracts. It's disaster.

 

Sorry you disagree and think that Cousins is a top five QB but your wrong. And if we do anchor ourselves with this money hungry guy who barely can compete with the best teams in the NFL and shown that over the past five years I guarantee you that we will regret signing him long term. Unless he somehow can show that with less receiver talent somehow he can produce more next season then he could this season. It won't happen bro, when we lose our receivers and have Cousins throwing nonsense like 250 and one TD and game deciding picks we will all look back on this and say damn why didn't we trade him? 

 

Reminds me me of last season here when I was saying how Matt Jones wasn't good and people would attack me for that opinion.

 

Different opinions are what forums are for. I never said anything negative to you and I wouldn't, have your beliefs I don't care just don't come at me like that. 

Lots of hypocrisy and delusions of grandeur in the bolded parts above.  Some of these honestly made me laugh out loud: You're not into reading completely wrong opinions?  You would amaze me with what you know?  You should be listened to?  You're sorry I disagree, but I am wrong?  And then, you close with different opinions on a forum; have your beliefs, I don't care???  This is the embarrassment I was referring to in my earlier post.  I was honestly trying to help you out.

 

You just don't get it.  Let me amaze you with what I know. This is a message board.  The way it works is that people offer their opinions and then debate others with different opinions using evidence and facts to back those opinions up.  The reason they are opinions is because they can't be proven wrong or right, at least not at the point that the discussion is taking place.

 

Your opinion has been posted ad nauseam in different threads, though several posters have countered your opinion with stats, facts, and other evidence time and time again, yet you completely continue to ignore the evidence and keep posting along like it doesn't exist.  That's not debating or adding to the discussion at all.  That is trolling, which is against the rules here.  Even in your post above you throw out all of this rubbish with not one thing to back up anything you said,  But, we are all just supposed to believe you, right?  Your professing your awing football knowledge should trump all other evidence.  You know Cousins isn't and will never be a top 5 QB.  He's not worth the market price of around 25 million. Support? Evidence?  You don't need it, you just know because of your awing football knowledge and we should listen to you and not question it.  Got it!

 

Sorry your feelings got hurt, but realize that if you continue to act like a troll, you will be treated like a troll, and I promise that there are other posters and mods here that will "come at you" a lot harder than I or other posters like @onedrop have.  My advice to you is to learn how the board works, back up your opinions while realizing that they aren't facts, and respond to others' evidence and debate them even if it does weaken your stance.  That's how it works around here. Otherwise, your going to keep on "ignoring" or threatening to ignore posters until their will be no one here for you to converse with at all.  If you can't handle that, I suggest you bobandleave.

[Gizmo 3squire]

Mildly off topic, but what's irritating is the media now throwing a hissy fit because they can't get any news out of Redskins Park. Good. Wait until the org announces something in regards to KC and FA. I don't expect anything until after the Combine tbh.

[Butters20]

Kirk is not a star player. He is not a franchise. He is not a brand. He is not a jersey mover. He is not a Sportscenter headline grabber. And if Snyder/Bruce are hesitant, then that is probably why. They have shown in the past they are willing to overpay someone(RG3) who encompasses all of those things.

 

Kirk is a very good player, not top 5 QB, but top third of the league. Maybe he can grow into top 5, but that is neither here nor there currently. Problem is, the market is such that he can play it(intelligently, and rightly so) to his maximum benefit. 

 

I think we are in a situation where we will have to overpay or find a new QB.

[Taylor703]

I highly doubt Dan and Bruce care that RG3 failed and Kirk didn't. It's perfectly reasonable to believe they simply don't see Kirk the same way fans do. It would also lend credence to the rest of the leagues evaluators rating him as tier a 3 QB.

 

Like I've said many times, I think Kirk is a good QB. I think he deserves a good contract but I do not think he deserves to be the highest paid player in the league and the team has to take a stand somewhere. It will suck to lose him but if we get a first round pick in return that would ease the pain a bit. 

 

I do think its going to be tough to replace him this off-season. I do believe the franchise will survive just fine and will continue building with Scot at the helm. I think last years draft class is going to show a whole lot more this year but they can't go into the season with McCoy as the starter. If Kirk is gone you have to go after Cutler or Taylor. Both are downgrades from Kirk but are improvements over Colt. 

[Gizmo 3squire]

6 minutes ago, Butters20 said:

Kirk is not a star player. He is not a franchise. He is not a brand. He is not a jersey mover. He is not a Sportscenter headline grabber. And if Snyder/Bruce are hesitant, then that is probably why. They have shown in the past they are willing to overpay someone(RG3) who encompasses all of those things.

 

Kirk is a very good player, not top 5 QB, but top third of the league. Maybe he can grow into top 5, but that is neither here nor there currently. Problem is, the market is such that he can play it(intelligently, and rightly so) to his maximum benefit. 

 

I think we are in a situation where we will have to overpay or find a new QB.

 

Unfortunately this.

 

I'm already preparing for the overpay, but at this rate if it means of keeping consistency together team wise then it's for the best, my concern and should be their concern as well, is the current FA situation for Garcon and DJax, even Baker. They have caped for Cousins more than once. What happens if we sign KC and we lose more than likely 2 of the 3? They won't be singing praises like they were before. The only one I see taking a cheap deal is Garcon, I def don't see DJax skimping on money, Baker is a question mark. But i'm for just keeping KC so we don't have to deal/hear about this anymore.lol

4 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

I highly doubt Dan and Bruce care that RG3 failed and Kirk didn't. It's perfectly reasonable to believe they simply don't see Kirk the same way fans do. It would also lend credence to the rest of the leagues evaluators rating him as tier a 3 QB.

 

Like I've said many times, I think Kirk is a good QB. I think he deserves a good contract but I do not think he deserves to be the highest paid player in the league and the team has to take a stand somewhere. It will suck to lose him but if we get a first round pick in return that would ease the pain a bit. 

 

I do think its going to be tough to replace him this off-season. I do believe the franchise will survive just fine and will continue building with Scot at the helm. I think last years draft class is going to show a whole lot more this year but they can't go into the season with McCoy as the starter. If Kirk is gone you have to go after Cutler or Taylor. Both are downgrades from Kirk but are improvements over Colt. 

 

True.

 

Which is what I stated earlier, even though it's all speculation, there's def preventing the FO from pulling the trigger on signing Kirk long term for the amount that his camp is striving for. I also agree the pessimism of the future of the Redskins if we don't sign KC longterm is a little dramatic, while we may regress (we regressed this past year) we'll be fine imo if he leaves. I'm trusting the process.

[purbeast]

10 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

I highly doubt Dan and Bruce care that RG3 failed and Kirk didn't. It's perfectly reasonable to believe they simply don't see Kirk the same way fans do. It would also lend credence to the rest of the leagues evaluators rating him as tier a 3 QB.

I consider tier 3 QB's pretty good quarterbacks and one you can win with.  That is basically along the lines of Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, and Eli Manning, some of which have made deep playoff runs and won SB's.

[Taylor703]

1 minute ago, purbeast said:

I consider tier 3 QB's pretty good quarterbacks and one you can win with.  That is basically along the lines of Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, and Eli Manning, some of which have made deep playoff runs and won SB's.

 

I agree. I've said Kirk is a good QB. The only issue I take is whether you can win a super bowl with him and I just don't think you can. 

[Morneblade]

Honestly, I'm laughing at most of you. People completely freaking out over literally nothing. At this point, I'm glad we're not hearing anything. If nothing else it makes it even more humorous to see people "knowing" what's going on and loosing their **** over it. GMSM is locked in a room by Bruce Allen and won't let him talk. Redskins are paralyzed over Kirk and can't make a decision. Redskins are looking to trade Kirk because he's going to cost too much. Redskins are butthurt over RGIII not working out.............................still. Bruce Allen and GMSM are in a power struggle. Kirk hates playing for the Redskins. And the list goes on and on.

 

 

What I want to know is this. What mental gymnastics do you have to do to take what is basically neither side talking to the media during contract negotiations, and get all of this garbage out or it? Or what drugs are you on?

 

So I can avoid them. Like the Bubonic Plague.

 

Why should the front office bother wasting oxygen over rediculous, unfounded rumors? Or show their hand (other than saying they want him, and this won't be as hard as everyone is saying it is), which has already been said? For mouthbreathers on Twitter?

 

Really? Because that's so important? Hint: It's not.

 

You are loosing your Fing minds over.....................................nothing.

 

How 'bout this. How 'bout waiting for some real news to react to, and in the meantime focus (if it has to be football) look toward the combine coming up.

 

Or not. I guess it's up to you.

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, purbeast said:

And remember too, they basically threw away 5+ years of building through the draft for a completely unknown QB in RG3 who turned out to be probably the biggest bust in the history of the NFL if you look at what was lost on him, yet they aren't willing to do a 5 year deal with a consistent QB who has been home grown.

 

I'm with you, this **** is is just mind boggling and some things never change.  

 

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'm with you on this, too.  However I don't trust that they'd have done anything through the draft, either.  That's what I keep telling myself, though.

 

RG3 wasn't unknown though, he was a Heisman winner.  I don't know why the Shanahans get so much crap on here, they were the only ones who could see through his deficiencies and make something out of him.  Even if it was only for a year, it was an electric year and fun to watch.  

 

Griffin's aptitude for quickly reading defenses and properly utilizing route trees was totally unknown.  He ran a high school offense in league without defenses so teams scored like basketball teams.  Drafting a QB with this inadequate preparation was total crap shot.  That they traded away 2 first round and 1 second picks and in total used 3 firsts and a second pick for a kid whose mental aptitude they could only guess at was ludicrous.  That they also missed detecting that he was also a head case who would be a giant disrupters and pain in the ass begs a word more disparaging than incompetence.

 

I don't know how much extra money Snyder made in 2012 converting Redskin fan loyalty and vain hopes into RGIII jersey sales but it was the dumbest roster move in the history of the NFL.  Worse than the Herschel Walker trade, Walker played and he wasn't a pain in the ass.  Now just because he can Snyder may let Shannahan's great, controversial 4th round who actually developed into a real Pro Bowl Player not a gimmick slip away because after blowing fortunes on dumb moves Snyder won't let his minions pay Cousins the fortune the top 5 guys get now.  

[onedrop]

1 hour ago, purbeast said:

For some reason people seem to think that good quarterbacks are supposed to do poorly against poor secondaries.  I never understood how people are using it as a negative that KC played well against a ****ty secondary.  That is what decent QB's are supposed to do - shred them.  

 

Then you will have the people say "well he can't do that against a good team!"  Well good teams are good for a reason - they have good defenses and offenses typically.

 

But hey, Eli Manning only scored 16 against the Packers.  Russel Wilson only scored 10 points against the packers.  I guess those QB's are awful since they couldn't come close to what KC did against the Packers.

Exactly. Selective accountability to support pre determined position. 

[purbeast]

8 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

 

I agree. I've said Kirk is a good QB. The only issue I take is whether you can win a super bowl with him and I just don't think you can. 

Well no quarterback can take you to a superbowl and win ... until they do.

[Taylor703]

7 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Well no quarterback can take you to a superbowl and win ... until they do.

 

I'm not saying he can't actually do it. I'm just speaking purely from my feelings. I don't see him as a super bowl winning QB. That doesn't mean it can't happen. 

[markmills67]

25 minutes ago, Gizmo 3squire said:

 

Unfortunately this.

 

I'm already preparing for the overpay, but at this rate if it means of keeping consistency together team wise then it's for the best, my concern and should be their concern as well, is the current FA situation for Garcon and DJax, even Baker. They have caped for Cousins more than once. What happens if we sign KC and we lose more than likely 2 of the 3? They won't be singing praises like they were before. The only one I see taking a cheap deal is Garcon, I def don't see DJax skimping on money, Baker is a question mark. But i'm for just keeping KC so we don't have to deal/hear about this anymore.lol

 

True.

 

Which is what I stated earlier, even though it's all speculation, there's def preventing the FO from pulling the trigger on signing Kirk long term for the amount that his camp is striving for. I also agree the pessimism of the future of the Redskins if we don't sign KC longterm is a little dramatic, while we may regress (we regressed this past year) we'll be fine imo if he leaves. I'm trusting the process.

Even if we sign Cousins on the franchise tag amount  $24m, we will have $40m cap space plus the chance of another $10m plus by releasing some players, there is no reason why we can't sign all our main FA and have $30m plus to sign FA from other teams.

 

HTTR 

[Yohan]

11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Packers game was against a **** secondary.

 

I don't frankly care if Kirk is a "good guy" or an asshole. It's about risk. If Kirk is playing hardball after signing the tag and you don't think you can get a deal done by the draft, I say you ship him to SF and pick up that #2 overall.

A lot of what he did in that game was into a strong wind. Pretty accurate long ball into that wind. The 4th quarter performance alone, was impressive.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

12 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

Remember Josh Norman last year when he was threatened with the tag and he said hell no I will not sign it. Or the year before when Von Miller said the same thing or even the year before that when Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant said the same? Well they got paid big for rejecting the tags and in Norman's case he was cut. 

 

Reason I bring them up is to point out how different Cousins has been about the tag and this whole situation. He's nothing like that, last year the first chance he got to sign the tag he did. To me that's telling because those other guys were the best in the league at what they did. So the best players hate the tag and Cousins loves it? Idk what this means, he may be flipping nuts or he may know he's not that good and the money is off the chains for what the rest of the league would pay him.

 

Please Scot transition tag him. Make his agent go out there and make another team a year after the Osweiler disaster pay him. If the other guys think he's great and worth a mint that's cool we get picks if we don't match. We deserve compensation if we lose him.

 

I don't think the market is anywhere near as high for him that others here do. I think Kirk would get a lesson in fair market value if we did this and be shocked by how little others value him. And we get picks this way

 

Kirk is entering free agency with the draft coming up where other teams will find QBs there and in a market place of Tony Romo and Jimmy G and McCarron and Cutler and even a Tygod. This ain't the only rodeo ride in this NFL circus this year or our only option

First, Josh Norman didn't say hell no to signing the FT, he didn't sign the FT after it was applied, still hoping for a LTD.  His former agent used not signing as a leverage in hopes to secure a LTD with the Panthers.    The same tactic that Von Miller used, but that worked out for him, not Norman.  Gettleman got pissy and rescinded the tag.  When word got to Josh that the Panthers were going to remove the tag, he contacted them and said he would sign it, that he wanted to be in Carolina.  They refused to let him and parted ways.  

 

Not signing the tag for x amount of time after it's applied is nothing more than a leverage tool for the player, putting pressure on the team to sign them to a LTD or risk them holding out and not signing.  If Kirk did that, I'm sure everyone complaining about him now would be complaining about that too.  We all saw what can happen by taking that approach too, sometimes it works out (Von Miller) and sometimes it doesn't and you get released into free agency (Norman).  

 

So Kirk not signing the tag and demanding/wanting to work hard to sign a LTD where the possibility that he could be a hold out at the start of training camp suddenly "isn't about the money"...........but Kirk signing the tag immediately after it's applied and wanting to work on signing a LTD is "all about the money".  News flash, both are about the money, so who cares what negotiation tactics him and his agent decide to pursue.