The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[SemperFi Skins]

http://nfltraderumors.co/redskins-hosting-db-darius-butler-visit/

 

Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports is reporting that the Redskins are hosting free agent DB Darius Butler for visit on Thursday. However, the Colts are interested in re-signing him.

Butler has already met with the Bears, but left Chicago without a contract agreement in place.

Butler, 30, is a former second-round pick of the Patriots back in 2009. He spent the first two years of his career in New England before he was waived and later claimed by the Panthers at the start of the 2011 season.

The Colts signed Butler as a free agent in September of 2012 and he has spent the past five years in Indianapolis.

In 2016, Butler appeared in 12 games and recorded 33 tackles, three interceptions, a forced fumble and six pass defenses. Pro Football Focus has him rated as the No. 20 cornerback out of 112 qualifying players.

[fordranger76]

Would love for Hankins to drop his price and years now. Hopefully to 6? A guy can dream can't he?

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

Would love for Hankins to drop his price and years now. Hopefully to 6? A guy can dream can't he?

 

I'd be fine with $8 million @ 4-5 years. He's still very young. Honestly, I'd do just about anything to get him here at this point.

[PartyPosse]

I'm glad Poe signed elsewhere. Dude had "best seasons behind him" written all over him.

 

as for RJF and Baker, I loved both but I understand why they were released ONLY if they still planning on bringing in a marquee name to play on the line. Going from those two to what they have now barely moves the needle in terms of making the team better or worse. If the goal isn't to bring in someone else it becomes clear that not offering a contract/cutting was meant more as a message - either a message regarding their results or a message regarding their opinions on the current regime.

[Morneblade]

11 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm glad Poe signed elsewhere. Dude had "best seasons behind him" written all over him.

 

as for RJF and Baker, I loved both but I understand why they were released ONLY if they still planning on bringing in a marquee name to play on the line. Going from those two to what they have now barely moves the needle in terms of making the team better or worse. If the goal isn't to bring in someone else it becomes clear that not offering a contract/cutting was meant more as a message - either a message regarding their results or a message regarding their opinions on the current regime.

 

 

I wasn't super high on Poe, but he's one less guy available in a position we are really hurting at.

[Peregrine]

If the Redskins sign Butler, it must be Hall gets cut.  Butler seems like he will be brought in to play safety.

[Peregrine]

15 hours ago, Gibbit said:

 

Franchise tags happen every year. 

 

These one year deals are simply the reset button when they don't get the offers they wanted in FA

Then why hasnt this level of one year deals happened before?

[RVAskins]

55 minutes ago, bankonhank said:

Thanks for the discussion. Anyone know what this guys deal is? 

 

I think it's 1 year $6 Million.....

Just now, Peregrine said:

Then why hasnt this level of one year deals happened before?

 

I blame it on global warming.

[Skinsinparadise]

Chris Cooley summed up the signings today, he loves Swearinger, loves even more Pryor.  But he grades their free agent haul for the D line a D.  He said they needed one major stud D lineman that can win one on one match ups.  And so far they haven't gotten that guy.  Reading between the lines, Cooley seems to think McClain will be a decent rotational guy and McGee will be a bust.

 

I think the people defending letting Baker go might be missing the plot because IMO its all about context.  Heck I said before FA that I wouldn't lose any sleep if Baker is let go but that was in context of them upgrading with someone better.  But its hard to argue that they replaced him with a comparable talent let alone someone who is better.  Yeah maybe Cooley doesn't know what he's talking about and is dead wrong.  I think the market though for the moment agrees with Cooley's point -- no one offered McClain a monster contract, Baker got paid more.   

 

The best analogy I can think of is switching it to baseball.  Your infield stunk the previous year in terms of output on offense.  Your best hitter in the infield was your shortstop who hit 275.  Then the best hitting utility infielder hit 260.  Both are decent players but nothing special.  Your other guys were 250 hitters.   You start the offseason by dumping your best hitters -- the shortstop and utility infielder and replace them with players who you can easily argue are worse not better than the guys you replaced -- centering on Baker. 

 

And people argue the point that so what we dumped a 275 hitter and a 260 hitter big deal.  In a vacuum that point is plenty logical.  But if you take it out of the vacuum and consider the full picture.  They replaced the 275 hitter and 260 hitter with players who just might be 255 hitters.  And that is a big deal and outright weird IMO.  Again, unless another signing is in the offing.  IMO they have to have something else up their sleeve. 

[bobandweave]

38 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

Would love for Hankins to drop his price and years now. Hopefully to 6? A guy can dream can't he?

 

Wow that's way too much money

20 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

If the Redskins sign Butler, it must be Hall gets cut.  Butler seems like he will be brought in to play safety.

 

I'd be fine with that, Hall's never shown he can transition to this position and to me seems like a wasted roster space. Like him as a player but we need people on the field, can't make the team from the tub

[Reaper Skins]

Lacy to the Seahawks.  That has so much potential for epic nicknames

 

Obese Mode

Feast Mode

Beast A la Mode

[PartyPosse]

I will say, Poe probably could have helped out our Red Zone efficiency tenfold.

[Skinsinparadise]

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet  23m23 minutes ago

More

With Poe signing, #Giants DT Jonathan Hankins is the best available DT. He still wants a big-$, multi-year deal. Hard to imagine that now

[pcbothwel]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Chris Cooley summed up the signings today, he loves Swearinger, loves even more Pryor.  But he grades their free agent haul for the D line a D.  He said they needed one major stud D lineman that can win one on one match ups.  And so far they haven't gotten that guy.  Reading between the lines, Cooley seems to think McClain will be a decent rotational guy and McGee will be a bust.

 

I think the people defending letting Baker go might be missing the plot because IMO its all about context.  Heck I said before FA that I wouldn't lose any sleep if Baker is let go but that was in context of them upgrading with someone better.  But its hard to argue that they replaced him with a comparable talent let alone someone who is better.  Yeah maybe Cooley doesn't know what he's talking about and is dead wrong.  I think the market though for the moment agrees with Cooley's point -- no one offered McClain a monster contract, Baker got paid more.   

 

The best analogy I can think of is switching it to baseball.  Your infield stunk the previous year in terms of output on offense.  Your best hitter in the infield was your shortstop who hit 275.  Then the best hitting utility infielder hit 260.  Both are decent players but nothing special.  Your other guys were 250 hitters.   You start the offseason by dumping your best hitters -- the shortstop and utility infielder and replace them with players who you can easily argue are worse not better than the guys you replaced -- centering on Baker. 

 

And people argue the point that so what we dumped a 275 hitter and a 260 hitter big deal.  In a vacuum that point is plenty logical.  But if you take it out of the vacuum and consider the full picture.  They replaced the 275 hitter and 260 hitter with players who just might be 255 hitters.  And that is a big deal and outright weird IMO.  Again, unless another signing is in the offing.  IMO they have to have something else up their sleeve. 

 

I get what you are trying to say, but using Baseball is terrible. The sport is single event driven (Pitcher to Batter) and can be broken down in very clear data models.

However, the effectiveness of a Defensive lineman in a 3-4 is almost the opposite. Sorry, but thats saying a basketball player that scores alot of points is a good offensive player, or a player that gets steals or blocks is a good defensive player. It completely overlooks what the player is actually supposed to be doing and how his actions directly affect how other players assignments work out.

[bobandweave]

24 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Then why hasnt this level of one year deals happened before?

 

Never before has there been a Free Agency like this years. Things that are different this year from others

 

1. Most every team had a ton of cap money, used to be we only had 1 to 5 clubs with 30 million in money to start FA, this year more then half the league had that

 

2. The players know that this trend will continue next year since everyone believes the cap will continue to go up next year. So when players start signing one year deals, that also means that club will have that money again to spend the following year

 

3. One aspect of this free agency we haven't spoken about (at least I've not seen it discussed) yet is that we now have teams giving up on the season before a single games been played. Tanking is a controversial topic I have no clue why it is but it's happening earlier this year then ever before. The Browns traded for Osweiler to get a 2nd round pick because they know they aren't winning anything this year and they know they have a salary floor on the cap to reach and they need draft picks. By trading money for a draft pick they are planning for the future. They aren't taking the Jaguars approach and thinking this could be their year and signing bad players to bad contracts only to give false hope, they flat out are tanking. It makes sense, no one thinks the Browns are gonna win anything this year. So why not tank now and get draft capital to move up next year for the QB they need? its a higher level of thinking and good for them. Never seen it done this early in the season before though. Teams are thinking about this season differently then before like the Patriots going all in on the season, never seen them do that before. Age of the players like Brees being 38 years old have something to do with these approaches as well

 

4. There was a record setting number of tags given out which made the free agency pool much less in it then years past. Too many JAGS and not enough studs to be had

 

Also other reasons but those were found in previous years too (all about guaranteed money, more decision where to play next year, etc)

 

 

9 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Lacy to the Seahawks.  That has so much potential for epic nicknames

 

Obese Mode

Feast Mode

Beast A la Mode

 

They signed him to be an offensive linemen didn't you hear?

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, pcbothwel said:

 

I get what you are trying to say, but using Baseball is terrible. The sport is single event driven (Pitcher to Batter) and can be broken down in very clear data models.

 

 

You are taking it too literally.  I know all about the differences of baseball and football.  I was trying to bring home a throw the baby out with the bath water analogy.

[pcbothwel]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are taking it too literally.  I know all about the differences of baseball and football.  I was trying to bring home a throw the baby out with the bath water analogy.

 

You clearly said that we let a 275 and 260 hitter go (Baker and RJF) for player that MIGHT be 255 hitters (McLain and McGee). You basically said in finite terms that both players we signed are worse than both players we let got, even if by a slim margin. Im arguing that there is no reason to assume this statement is FACT.

[MartinC]

48 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm glad Poe signed elsewhere. Dude had "best seasons behind him" written all over him.

 

as for RJF and Baker, I loved both but I understand why they were released ONLY if they still planning on bringing in a marquee name to play on the line. Going from those two to what they have now barely moves the needle in terms of making the team better or worse. If the goal isn't to bring in someone else it becomes clear that not offering a contract/cutting was meant more as a message - either a message regarding their results or a message regarding their opinions on the current regime.

 

There are some very good 3 and 5 techs in the draft. Not sure there is a zero/1 tech though that could come in and start.

 

Maybe they think Phil Taylor can be the guy at NT on limited snaps. But thats more hope than expectation with a guy who has been out of football for a year.

[PartyPosse]

8 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

3. One aspect of this free agency we haven't spoken about (at least I've not seen it discussed) yet is that we now have teams giving up on the season before a single games been played. Tanking is a controversial topic I have no clue why it is but it's happening earlier this year then ever before. The Browns traded for Osweiler to get a 2nd round pick because they know they aren't winning anything this year and they know they have a salary floor on the cap to reach and they need draft picks. By trading money for a draft pick they are planning for the future. They aren't taking the Jaguars approach and thinking this could be their year and signing bad players to bad contracts only to give false hope, they flat out are tanking. It makes sense, no one thinks the Browns are gonna win anything this year. So why not tank now and get draft capital to move up next year for the QB they need? its a higher level of thinking and good for them. Never seen it done this early in the season before though. Teams are thinking about this season differently then before like the Patriots going all in on the season, never seen them do that before. Age of the players like Brees being 38 years old have something to do with these approaches as well

I don't necessarily think Cleveland is tanking the season at all. They grabbed a QB that could still be very capable, have made some shrewd FA signings and are about the draft no less than 3 impact players in the draft. Right now it's hard to argue that they have one of the 3 best OL in the NFL and with the development of Crowell and Campbell the offense may be underrated. 

[actorguy1]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2017/1/8/14200762/darius-butler-says-hes-ready-to-make-full-time-transition-to-safety

Color me intrigued

[PartyPosse]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

There are some very good 3 and 5 techs in the draft. Not sure there is a zero/1 tech though that could come in and start.

 

Maybe they think Phil Taylor can be the guy at NT on limited snaps. But thats more hope than expectation with a guy who has been out of football for a year.

IF we roll with Taylor at NT then we better be drafting someone in the 4th round to develop... I like Vanderdoes from UCLA or Watkins. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

59 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'd be fine with $8 million @ 4-5 years. He's still very young. Honestly, I'd do just about anything to get him here at this point.

 

 

Bin bag one of the top football evaluating minds in the league and crazy **** happens. 

 

The draft should be a barrel of laughs. 

 

Hail. 

[carex]

21 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

3. One aspect of this free agency we haven't spoken about (at least I've not seen it discussed) yet is that we now have teams giving up on the season before a single games been played. Tanking is a controversial topic I have no clue why it is but it's happening earlier this year then ever before. The Browns traded for Osweiler to get a 2nd round pick because they know they aren't winning anything this year and they know they have a salary floor on the cap to reach and they need draft picks. By trading money for a draft pick they are planning for the future. They aren't taking the Jaguars approach and thinking this could be their year and signing bad players to bad contracts only to give false hope, they flat out are tanking. It makes sense, no one thinks the Browns are gonna win anything this year. So why not tank now and get draft capital to move up next year for the QB they need? its a higher level of thinking and good for them. Never seen it done this early in the season before though. Teams are thinking about this season differently then before like the Patriots going all in on the season, never seen them do that before. Age of the players like Brees being 38 years old have something to do with these approaches as well

 

 

trading for other teams draft picks is a either a comment on how you expect them to do, or figuring that the more chances you have to roll the dice the more likely you are to win, it is not a comment on how you expect to do

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, pcbothwel said:

 

You clearly said that we let a 275 and 260 hitter go (Baker and RJF) for player that MIGHT be 255 hitters (McLain and McGee). You basically said in finite terms that both players we signed are worse than both players we let got, even if by a slim margin. Im arguing that there is no reason to assume this statement is FACT.

 

Never said it as fact.  As far as I can tell, no one so far said anything here was a fact.  So I don't know why we need to delve into fact versus opinion discourse.  

 

But to play along to put this to rest.  In the actual post you responded to, I said for example maybe Cooley is dead wrong but I don't think he is (translation = opinion).  Then I launched into an analogy.  Didn't know I needed to keep going with disclaimers that I was giving an opinion versus stating fact -- heck me classifying football players with baseball batting averages -- I thought would make it inherent that I was using the best analogy I can think of to bring the point home versus stating as fact that Chris Baker hit 275 last season.  It's obvious that Baker didn't play baseball.  

 

But if I need to clarify that, OK cool, I'll clarfy.  McClain and McGee could end up being the best DT's is the league.  Its possible.  Anything is possible.  It's all opinion.  We are all giving opinion.  We don't know one way or another anything as fact.  I like Pryor a lot I think its a great signing but its not a fact, its an opinion.    I've explained my doubts about this FA approach in previous posts which is we've seen this movie for the last two off seasons, this time I am not giving them the benefit of the doubt.  That's assuming they don't make another move, I still think they make another move.

[NickyJ]

31 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

3. One aspect of this free agency we haven't spoken about (at least I've not seen it discussed) yet is that we now have teams giving up on the season before a single games been played. Tanking is a controversial topic I have no clue why it is but it's happening earlier this year then ever before. The Browns traded for Osweiler to get a 2nd round pick because they know they aren't winning anything this year and they know they have a salary floor on the cap to reach and they need draft picks. By trading money for a draft pick they are planning for the future.

The Browns taking Osweiler is not a sign that they're tanking the 2017 season before free agency has even ended. Teams can still plan for the future without declaring the season over before it begins. They had the opportunity to make an investment without it seriously damaging their team this year.