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The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

DC9

By DC9
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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, dckey said:

Where are they making more money?  Over the cap has both our DL at 3.3 and 3.7 cap hit, while baker and RJF were 6 and 4 mil cap hit

 

Well, Baker isn't listed anymore on the site I use for cap anymore, but RJF was, and only 3 million on the cap, with a guaranteed ave of 1.3 million. So, we didn't save any money by replacing him.

 

The other thing to consider is availability. Neither McGee nor McClain have shown they can be up for any length of time. Or, have any consistent play over more than 1 season. Our old guys at least were available, and had a decent, if not great track record.

 

So, the odds of McClain and McGee being healthy (or not in trouble off the field) and producing is very slim going by their history.

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dckey

dckey

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Well, Baker isn't listed anymore on the site I use for cap anymore, but RJF was, and only 3 million on the cap, with a guaranteed ave of 1.3 million. So, we didn't save any money by replacing him.

 

The other thing to consider is availability. Neither McCoy nor McClain have shown they can be up for any length of time. Or, have any consistent play over more than 1 season. Our old guys at least were available, and had a decent, if not great track record.

 

So, the odds of McClain and McCoy being healthy (or not in trouble off the field) and producing is very slim going by their history.

Over the cap has Baker at 6 mil for the Bucs and RJF was 4 mil for us

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dckey

dckey

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Posted

Also, I believe that the guys we signed are worst against the pass and better against the run then both Baker and RJF.  I don't look to them as upgrades but I don't think we downgraded either.  Got worst against the pass but better against the run

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Over the cap does not have Baker listed with us any longer, and has RJF listed with a cap hit of 3 million.

http://overthecap.com/contracts/washington-redskins

 

Ricky Jean-Francois     $9,000,000  $3,000,000  $4,000,000  $1,333,333

44.4%

 

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/tampa-bay-buccaneers

 

Look at the cap number not the base pay

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, dckey said:

Also, I believe that the guys we signed are worst against the pass and better against the run then both Baker and RJF.  I don't look to them as upgrades but I don't think we downgraded either.  Got worst against the pass but better against the run

 

If that makes you sleep better at night, do what you have to do.

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dckey

dckey

Posted
Posted
Just now, Morneblade said:

 

If that makes you sleep better at night, do what you have to do.

Do you think we would be better with Baker at 6 mil and RJF at 4 mil?  I don't think it matters to be honest none of the 4 players are pro bowlers none make a impact that we need.  Just think better value with who we signed, but still need a dominant NT

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
Just now, dckey said:

Do you think we would be better with Baker at 6 mil and RJF at 4 mil?  I don't think it matters to be honest none of the 4 players are pro bowlers none make a impact that we need.  Just think better value with who we signed, but still need a dominant NT

 

And I think you're wrong. Do this for me, go look at both McClain's and McGee's stats over the years. McClain did basically nothing for 4 years. McCoy was less than a JAG. Both have injury issues, and McGee has a slew of off the field stuff. So what if we saved a couple million by getting worse at both positions? We got worse, and our big issue was not even looked at. Neither one has shown that:

1. They can play at a decent level, consistently. Both RJF and Baker did that

2. Can even be on the field consistently. Both Baker and RJF did that.

 

So, I think we took a step back. This is what I would have done, concerning these players.

1. Sign a real NT. And look to draft on in the mid rounds of the draft. Most important thing we have to do.

2. Resign Baker

3. Keep RJF

4. Resign Hood (like we did) to have him probably start at DE

5. Sign McClain to rotate DE

6. Don't even sniff McGee

 

 

 

 

 

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bankonhank

bankonhank

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

No one is forgetting this. What you seem to forget is now, we have guys that are WORSE in their place, making MORE money. And you wonder why people have a problem?

It is important to take into account we have a new defensive coordinator that might be looking for guys that fit his scheme,Manusky was with the 49's when they drafted RJF and watched him first hand all last season, he knows what RJF had to offer. Getting players to fit your scheme is an important concept, do you see why the coaches consider this? See i can do condescending questions to end my posts too! 

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Morneblade

Morneblade

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Posted
1 minute ago, bankonhank said:

It is important to take into account we have a new defensive coordinator that might be looking for guys that fit his scheme,Manusky was with the 49's when they drafted RJF and watched him first hand all last season, he knows what RJF had to offer. Getting players to fit your scheme is an important concept, do you see why the coaches consider this? See i can do condescending questions to end my posts too! 

 

Good, next time capitalize your "I".

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted

The obsession over 2 average DL players on an atrocious defense is mind blowing.

 

the guys we got might be better.  Might not be.  But the guys we had didn't get it done.

 

time to try something else.  

 

Btw, Manusky was im SF when they drafted. RJF.  And had him in Indy, believe.

 

He didn't seem all that devestatesd by his release.  This tells me he was expendable to the current coaches.

 

baker was a great quote, had a good nickname, a good dance, and was an average player. 

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
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1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The obsession over 2 average DLplayets on an atrocious defense is mind blowing.

 

the guys we hit might be better.  Might not be.  But the guys we had didn't get it done.

 

time to try something else.  

 

Btw, Manusky was im SF when they drafted. RJF.  And had him in Indy, believe.

 

He didn't seem all that devestatesd by his release.  This tells me he was expendable to the current coaches.

 

baker was a great quote, had a good nickname, a good dance, and was an average player. 

 

 

The one thing we can agree on is that RJF and Chris Baker were not great players. That was never, ever the issue.

 

The issue is taking probably the worse area on the team (and IMO the most critical part of the defense) and making it even worse. Which is what we have done. IMO.

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dckey

dckey

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

And I think you're wrong. Do this for me, go look at both McClain's and McGee's stats over the years. McClain did basically nothing for 4 years. McCoy was less than a JAG. Both have injury issues, and McGee has a slew of off the field stuff. So what if we saved a couple million by getting worse at both positions? We got worse, and our big issue was not even looked at. Neither one has shown that:

1. They can play at a decent level, consistently. Both RJF and Baker did that

2. Can even be on the field consistently. Both Baker and RJF did that.

 

So, I think we took a step back. This is what I would have done, concerning these players.

1. Sign a real NT. And look to draft on in the mid rounds of the draft. Most important thing we have to do.

2. Resign Baker

3. Keep RJF

4. Resign Hood (like we did) to have him probably start at DE

5. Sign McClain to rotate DE

6. Don't even sniff McGee

 

 

 

 

 

First of all I said that I don't think it is an upgrade, but it is not a downgrade either.  Stats will show nothing against the run.  You like Hankins, but he had 3 more tackles and .5 sack more than McClain last year, with 1 more start.  Hankins by all accounts is a far better player, but stats don't mean nothing against stuffing the run.  Second if we did what you are talking about you just spent 22 mil out of 34 mil on that DL which keeps us from signing DJ Swearinger or Pryor.  Just doesn't seem like the smart thing to do.  So you would rather have Logan, Baker, RJF and McClain (rotational) without a new WR and Safety or Hankins (hopefully), McClain, McGee with DJ and Pryor?

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, dckey said:

First of all I said that I don't think it is an upgrade, but it is not a downgrade either.  Stats will show nothing against the run.  You like Hankins, but he had 3 more tackles and .5 sack more than McClain last year, with 1 more start.  Hankins by all accounts is a far better player, but stats don't mean nothing against stuffing the run.  Second if we did what you are talking about you just spent 22 mil out of 34 mil on that DL which keeps us from signing DJ Swearinger or Pryor.  Just doesn't seem like the smart thing to do.  So you would rather have Logan, Baker, RJF and McClain (rotational) without a new WR and Safety or Hankins (hopefully), McClain, McGee with DJ and Pryor?

 

 

Couple of things. In this thread, someone posted that in plays in which Hankins was out, the Giants had the worse run D in the league. That is a huge stat about how important he was against the run. Also, we're not at edge of the cap yet, and we still have moves we can make. Cut Lauvao, saving is around $5 million a year, and we are apparently restructuring Hall, and his $5 million per as well. So, we could have done my plan on the DL signed who we signed.

2 minutes ago, bankonhank said:

Thanks for the discussion. Anyone know what this guys deal is? 

 

You failed to add anything worthy of discussion.

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dckey

dckey

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Couple of things. In this thread, someone posted that in plays in which Hankins was out, the Giants had the worse run D in the league. That is a huge stat about how important he was against the run. Also, we're not at edge of the cap yet, and we still have moves we can make. Cut Lauvao, saving is around $5 million a year, and we are apparently restructuring Hall, and his $5 million per as well. So, we could have done my plan on the DL signed who we signed.

That's why I said stats don't show everything, because of Hankins against the run.  Second You can adjust the cap with adjusting Hall and releasing Lauvao (saving about 6 mil against the cap total), but you will need to fill those spots as well.  If you look at what these NT are asking for avg of 8 mil per year, it would be hard to sign Baker and keep RJF.  We have to many wholes on this team to pay everybody what they want.  If they sign a legit NT then I think they did what is best for this team.  FA and the draft is not done yet so I won't judge until the team is in place.  Like I said if they sign Hankins then we are way better against the run than last year, with money left over to go after another Def player (mlb hopefully)

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, dckey said:

That's why I said stats don't show everything, because of Hankins against the run.  Second You can adjust the cap with adjusting Hall and releasing Lauvao (saving about 6 mil against the cap total), but you will need to fill those spots as well.  If you look at what these NT are asking for avg of 8 mil per year, it would be hard to sign Baker and keep RJF.  We have to many wholes on this team to pay everybody what they want.  If they sign a legit NT then I think they did what is best for this team.  FA and the draft is not done yet so I won't judge until the team is in place.  Like I said if they sign Hankins then we are way better against the run than last year, with money left over to go after another Def player (mlb hopefully)

 

Well, adjusting Hall doesn't create a hole, just Lauvoa. If it were me, I'd look for a G in the draft, or if one does not work, move Sullivan to C and let Long and Arie fight for LG, I think Sullivan is a better C anyway. But that's just me. Lauvao was pretty bad last year, so cutting him and replacing him with either Long of Arie, or a draft pick is IMO a lateral move, at worse. Maybe even a upgrade for less money.

 

FA is not done, but it just about is. Not many guys left, and not many guys that fit what we need.

 

As for the draft, there are some players that would be available to us, but there really are not any NT's that will be (and only one that is really worth anything), so its very doubtful we'll pick up anyone in the draft for NT. So, I'm really concerned there.

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