All Things North Korea Thread

[RansomthePasserby]

EDIT: BTW, if I was an NK citizen and was told that the president shot a 35 on his first 18 hole round of golf, with several holes-in-one, my BS meter would go off. Sorry, but there has to be a line somewhere.

Of course, but most of us Americans already think our Presidents are idiots who can't do anything right. :silly:There's probably a fairly large portion of the population who thinks they could actually do a better job if they were elected. North Koreans, on the other hand, think their leaders are basically gods.

I think a lot of it has to do with where the power lies. We choose our leaders, and in a way, we're their employers, and they have to live up to our standards. In dictatorships, all the power lies with the leader, and the people have to live up to his standard. In their minds, he's on a higher plane than they are. They've been told for years their leader is their savior, and when that idea superiority has been reinforced over the years, believing he's somehow superhuman isn't a far stretch.

Edited April 4, 2013 by RansomthePasserby

[chipwhich]

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=27769

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People's_Army#Weapons

http://www.icks.org/publication/pdf/2012-SPRING-SUMMER/8.pdf

No offense Mad Mike, I love ya bro but those links aren't exactly great research.

While the .gov link is the most "credible" what would you expect us to report

[Mad Mike]

No offense Mad Mike, I love ya bro but those links aren't exactly great research.

While the .gov link is the most "credible" what would you expect us to report

No offense taken. But compared to forming opinions of NK capabilities from a silly photo, that was pulitzer prize material.

[GoSkins561]

We have rowboats too. We just flew in a bomber to the region that dates from 1955

I guess we do, we also have sail boats at the Naval Academy, my point is I highly doubt we would load President Obama along with 20 of his top officials onto a old wooden rowboat so he could get a good look at the enemy. Who knows maybe its a decoy and they are going to break out some really kick Ass technology?

[Larry]

NK has all the technology it needs to be really dangerous.

Can they hurt the US? Not a chance.

Can they invade, well, anybody (and keep whatever they take)? Saddam Hussein had a better chance.

But, can they kill tens of thousands, maybe as much as a few million, civilians? Yep.

I think they've got like 100,000 Howitzers in range of Seoul. Even if said weapons only fire 10 shells each before we destroy them, (And they're supposedly in really well prepared installations, which make taking them out not exactly guaranteed), that's a whole bunch of damage they can inflict in less than a minute.

They have missiles. Supposedly they aren't very good missiles. Not very accurate. I think his major ones are liquid fueled. And, at least when we were using that kind of technology, fueling the things took 24 hours, could be seen by satellite, once they were fueled, they had to be launched within 48 hours, and after fueling, it took months of service before the rocket could be fueled again.

They have nuclear warheads. Granted, I think they've tried to test their nukes like three times, and their success record was two complete duds and one fizzle.

But, those rockets (which I think of as comparable to Saddam's Scuds), can reach Japan. With chemical or nuclear warheads. And, even if you assume that they can't target specific places within Japan, just assume that, say 2/3 of the missiles hit somewhere in Japan (assume that 1/3 of them even miss Japan), and even if you assume that they're armed with a chemical warhead, or a nuke that only partially detonates, . . .

You drop a small WMD at just a random place, somewhere in Japan, and you've done a lot of damage.

----------

NK is a joke, as a military.

But, as a terrorist with a whole hunch of hostages? They're a really serious threat.

[RVAbrendan]

Sounds like Anonymous followed through with the hacks...

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/04/hacking-of-north-koreas-twitter-and-flickr-accounts-includes-pic-of-kim-jong-un-with-a-snout/

Hacking of North Korea’s Twitter and Flickr accounts includes pic of Kim Jong Un with a snout

More at link...

The Uriminzokkiri Flickr stream now includes a photo of a Guy Fawkes mask and an image with the words “We Are Anonymous.” Another image calls Kim Jong Un “NUKE NUKE Mickey Lover” and replaces the dictator’s nose and ears with pig-like features. The Photoshopped image includes this text:

Threatening world peace with ICBMs and Nuclear weapons

Wasting money while his people starve to death

Concentration Camps and the worst human rights violation in the world

The United Nations officially sanctioned North Korea through the ICC due to its severe violation of human rights including concentration camps and torture

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Did you see the dudes pushing the row boat?

I'm not saying he is not crazy enough to try, I'm saying it won't take long to wipe any capabilities out once he does try.

A war with North Korea would be over in less than a week more than likely. Unfortunately, they would be able to annihliate Seoul in less than an hour.

The issue is not whether the US could militarily defeat North Korea. The issue is what happens in the days before that happens.

[DaGoonie55]

----------

NK is a joke, as a military.

But, as a terrorist with a whole hunch of hostages? They're a really serious threat.

100% agree.

Question - Will the US be held responsible (in the worlds eyes) if KJU does attack? I mean, hes pretty much let everyone know his intentions and if we do nothing....are we at fault? What are the ramifications if we are wrong, other than the obvious troop redeployment to SE Asia? I am not well versed in SE Asian politics nor events surrounding the Korean War.

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 06:46 AM ----------

A war with North Korea would be over in less than a week more than likely. Unfortunately' date=' they would be able to annihliate Seoul in less than an hour.

The issue is not whether the US could militarily defeat North Korea. The issue is what happens in the days before that happens.[/quote']

Also a very good point Lombardi.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

100% agree.

Question - Will the US be held responsible (in the worlds eyes) if KJU does attack? I mean, hes pretty much let everyone know his intentions and if we do nothing....are we at fault?

Not unless we strike first, which I don't believe we would ever do. Even China right now seems to be at a bit of a loss. I'm not sure anyone is sure what KJU is doing.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Dan T.]

It still feels like the saber-rattling is intended for Bighead Littleman's internal audience more than the outside world. He's consolidating internal power politically and militarily. But his over-the-top rhetoric and military maneuvering is like a newly-licensed driver handed a Lamborghini who is mashing the gas pedal and grinding the gears.

[Forehead]

With the clear intent of minimizing casualties, that ex-Pentagon official recommended "surgical strikes" on NK missile(s) as they were being readied. How feasible a course of action would this be? They dust off their old nuclear reactor...bomb the building. Avoid the major population centers, etc. Are we at the point where China/Russia and anyone else would no longer be offended if we took this course of action, so long as it was military targets only, with an eye on reducing civilian damage?

Our radar and surveillance capability is superior in this regard. I saw someone else say that we would never strike first, but in this situation, if our intent is clearly just to hamstring them militarily, would the objections be that loud? Hell, we could follow up each strike with a surplus grain drop out of good faith, right

[renaissance]

With the clear intent of minimizing casualties, that ex-Pentagon official recommended "surgical strikes" on NK missile(s) as they were being readied. How feasible a course of action would this be? They dust off their old nuclear reactor...bomb the building. Avoid the major population centers, etc. Are we at the point where China/Russia and anyone else would no longer be offended if we took this course of action, so long as it was military targets only, with an eye on reducing civilian damage?

Our radar and surveillance capability is superior in this regard. I saw someone else say that we would never strike first, but in this situation, if our intent is clearly just to hamstring them militarily, would the objections be that loud? Hell, we could follow up each strike with a surplus grain drop out of good faith, right

The fact is while we may know where their nuclear facilities are, we have no idea what kind of arsenal they have hidden elsewhere within the country. Any proactive attack is really going in partially blind at this point.

Edit: And I think there would be objections from their neighboring countries who could very easily be directly impacted by any sort of action. China doesn't want to deal with a million NK refugees, and SK nore China don't want to risk any response to our attacks (it doesn't take a North Korean nuke to do serious damage to South Korea).

Edited April 4, 2013 by renaissance

[The Sisko]

Am I the only one laughing at basically everything the PRK has said these past couple of months?

No, I have too but in my case it's a nervous laughter. As others have noted, even though we'd take KJU out pretty quickly, NK has serious conventional capability to kill/injure a hell of a lot of innocent people before that happens. What really bothers me is that one day, eventually, NK's nuclear capability and the means to deliver it will improve to the point where they will be a credible threat to the U.S. mainland. Sooner or later they're going to have to be dealt with and when that day comes, Seoul is most likely a gonner.

[wantarace17]

Reading about NK's air defenses and it's somewhat impressive. Most of the equipment is old it can still inflict serious harm to non-stealth jets/bombers.

[pjfootballer]

Am I the only one laughing at basically everything the PRK has said these past couple of months?

Everytime I read another headline, I chuckle. This is like 1990, when Iraq's "Imperial Guard" was supposed to be so powerful. We obliterated the Imperial Guard and what was left were sitting in foxholes "begging" the US troops to capture them as their supplies had run out. NK is a joke.

Actually, I'm hoping they start something. That way, maybe we'll be able to free their people once and for all. It may cost some lives, but it may help the country as a whole.

[ixcuincle]

Good to see they got hacked, although I got to wonder how accounts can be hacked so easily. People don't add numbers to the end of passwords?

[DaGoonie55]

Everytime I read another headline, I chuckle. This is like 1990, when Iraq's "Imperial Guard" was supposed to be so powerful. We obliterated the Imperial Guard and what was left were sitting in foxholes "begging" the US troops to capture them as their supplies had run out. NK is a joke.

A joke to us, yes. South Korea and surrounding countries will be decimated. The North Koreans have had DECADES to prepare for an offensive. Stockpiles of indirect ammunition. They have every square inch of South Korea pre-plotted with artillery. I do not think they can win a prolonged war, don't mistake what I am saying, but they will win in their own eyes - regardless of the annhilation they take in the process - because they will have inflicted casualties against those who stand in the way of communism's spread.

Actually, I'm hoping they start something.

I certainly don't. This a war we win, convincingly - but will have far greater impacts, politically, than OIF/OEF did. We must tread lightly, China is not a friend we need to piss off.

[pjfootballer]

A joke to us, yes. South Korea and surrounding countries will be decimated. The North Koreans have had DECADES to prepare for an offensive. Stockpiles of indirect ammunition. They have every square inch of South Korea pre-plotted with artillery. I do not think they can win a prolonged war, don't mistake what I am saying, but they will win in their own eyes - regardless of the annhilation they take in the process - because they will have inflicted casualties against those who stand in the way of communism's spread.

I certainly don't. This a war we win, convincingly - but will have far greater impacts, politically, than OIF/OEF did. We must tread lightly, China is not a friend we need to piss off.

Agree that we should tread lightly and in no way would I want a war to start. Certainly there will be casualties, but I guess I'm thinking long term for their people. That if dummy did start something and we could get him out of there, then maybe their people get a fresh start. Don't mistake me for a warmonger as that was not the point of my post. I'd always like to see a diplomatic way out, but then again like others have said, how long to you wait, while their military capabilities get better and better? It's definately a delicate balancing act that I for one would not like make that decision.

Edited April 4, 2013 by pjfootballer

[Predicto]

NK is a joke, as a military.

But, as a terrorist with a whole hunch of hostages? They're a really serious threat.

Exactly. Perfectly put.

Seoul is basically 20 million hostages, all within reach of North Korea's outdated but still lethal artillery. Literally millions of civilians could be killed within the first hour of bombardment. North Korea would be wiped out soon afterwords, but that wouldn't be much consolation.

People who complain that US is "looking weak" when it "puts up" with North Korea's antics don't appear to have spent much time thinking about those millions of South Koreans.

[Btubes18]

I am shocked at how many people are brushing this off or actually joking about this matter...

It does not matter if NK is not as technology advanced as we are. They can do significant damage in a very short period of time and that alone is extremely scary. We do not want to go to war with this country. A lot of civilian lives are at stake. This is no laughing matter. And I for one am glad our government is taking this seriously...

Edited April 4, 2013 by Btubes18

[Popeman38]

War games in the early 2000's involving the Korean peninsula basically conceded that the entire US Military contingent would be wiped out in less than 6 hours. That military contingent is a "show" of force indicating to any aggressor that you wipe them out, the full weight of the US military would respond immediately. If you don't think the US has multiple scenarios already mapped out with how to deal with any offensive from the North you are naive.

[renaissance]

Agree that we should tread lightly and in no way would I want a war to start. Certainly there will be casualties, but I guess I'm thinking long term for their people. That is dummy did start something and we could get him out of there, then maybe their people get a fresh start. Don't mistake me for a warmonger as that was not the point of my post. I'd always like to see a diplomatic way out, but then again like others have said, how long to you wait, while their military capabilities get better and better? It's definately a delicate balancing act that I for one would not like make that decision.

I feel like I've gone back in time 10 years.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

War games in the early 2000's involving the Korean peninsula basically conceded that the entire US Military contingent would be wiped out in less than 6 hours. That military contingent is a "show" of force indicating to any aggressor that you wipe them out, the full weight of the US military would respond immediately. If you don't think the US has multiple scenarios already mapped out with how to deal with any offensive from the North you are naive.

The terrorism analogy is the best. The North Koreans basically have a one-million-man suicide squad backed up by lethal artillery, chemical weapons, and God only knows what kind of half-assed nuclear weapons. It's hard to envision any war that does not leave that peninsula a smoking ruin.

[grhqofb5]

I agree with the first part of this post, all we can do is speculate but none of us knows for sure.

What scares me most is that Kim Jong Un may be an Adam Lanza with nukes.

There's also a chance he is trying to defect with the nuclear weapons of NK. There is a guy I know who works at a think tank in DC who is an expert on Kim Jong Un. Knows more about him than anyone outside of NK. Says that his birthday was a couple weeks ago when the rhetoric started. Perhaps it would wise to get a nuclear sub out off the coast of NK to send some morse code signals to him, flash the light, respond with one ping for yes, two for no. "Do you intend to defect?"

[HeluCopter29]

So you see that picture and you have made up your mind that N Korea doesn't have serious military capabilities? Your a journalist aren't you?

While not as entertaining as your pictures you may want to do a little reading before demonstrating your ignorance of the subject. Here, I'll help...

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=27769

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People's_Army#Weapons

http://www.icks.org/publication/pdf/2012-SPRING-SUMMER/8.pdf

Yeah, the possibility of millions of people dying is just hilarious.

The idea that Un would get into a war that would likely lead to his death is laughable.