mcsluggo Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 i know we have some in our community in this profession.. so let me start with an insincere apology for starting this thread. I am not sorry. do car dealerships add ANYTHING but pain misery and loathing to the fabric of American society? ANYthing at all, that i could be missing. (spoiler alert, we all already know the answer... ) this NPR article actually tries to be nice (NPR is always polite and nice)... and manages to squeeze in a single positive paragraph about dealership benefits in the overall missive highlighting the overall suckitude of the industry: Quote Inside the rise of 'stealerships' and the shady economics of car buying AUGUST 30, 2022- Greg Rosalsky, https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/08/30/1119715886/inside-the-rise-of-stealerships-and-the-shady-economics-of-car-buying they highlight that dealerships provide a "distribution and service network.." and let you test drive cars. Ok. but they of course do it in the ****tiest possible way. I would drive past a dealership to find ANYBODY else to service my car even if my car was literally on fire (unless it was free because of some manufacturer notice that REQUIRES you to go to dealerships). I'd also be willing to pay a-la-carte to test drive a car, or just trust Consumer Reports, or the dickhead down the street... or whomever... to avoid the "dealership experience". we also know that car manufacturers HATE American car dealerships... car dealerships are another tangible example of "American exceptionalism". Consumers in other countries don't have to go through this absolute bull**** process. The car dealership lobby is strong, and fights HARD to keep the process as ****ty as possible, and maintain for themselves with as much anti-competitive leverage as possible. Quote Car dealers are awful. It's time to kill the dumb laws that keep them in business. By Matthew Yglesias https://www.vox.com/2014/10/26/6977315/buy-car-hassle-free i don't pretend to FULLY understand the car market, but its not that complicated (certainly not as complicated as the dealerships make it!). The MSRP (plus the destination fee- normalized cost of shipping) already builds in profit for the dealership, and is the price that the manufacturers think should be charged for the car (the price they WANT to be the going price). it should be basically as simple as that: "here is the price: $x7,995, do you want to buy it?" https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-whats-an-msrp-228292 but.... no. i just spent more than a week trying to find out the price of a Toyota Sienna LE from 5 dealerships in the DMV. In several cases it was completely impossible. In one case i went to a dealership (a complete waste of my time) and then exchanged about 10 emails... to not know. In another case i MAY have found out the price, but every single email she has pretended that a new cited price is the "off the lot price --- except for taxes, tags and <fees>". and then every time I went back another dealer "fee" has been added (cumulative). in addition to the "destination fee" (the cost of shipping and handling), each correspondence has uncovered (one at a time) Delivery processing and handling $1,395 processing fee: $895 and finally (AFTER 10-ish emails) -- "dealer adjustments": $8,000 this is for the right to pay up front for a car that hasn't been built yet, wait 4 to 6 months for a car that Toyota WANTS sold for $37,685 (that invoices for about $5k less). But i cannot buy from Toyota because the dealerships have established monopolistic control over the relationship, which leads to them not only screwing the consumer but outright LYING about how much and for how long that screwing will take place. the system is ****ing broken. it is time for pitchforks, torches, stockades and the hurling of rotten vegetables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 just to buy cars sometimes they try to do maintenance on your car too but I just go to the local shops for that. but for a software upgrade they can't do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I'm suprised @TradeTheBeal! hasn't been tagged yet... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I do most of my buying and selling at dealerships, and I go through vehicles pretty quick. For me, it's the simplicity of it. I don't have to deal with tire kickers. I know funds will be available. And I've found the "$200 tip if you can get me in and out in an hour" works well. Having the internet available has made it easier because prices can't fluctuate as much between dealers when you can shop them all from your living room. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 You should try walking into a dealership, asking for a price, and regardless of what they tell you, call another dealership on speakerphone and asking the same question. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) I think dealerships do provide at least one good service. Since they are semiautonomous from the manufacturer they aren’t as likely to pass through cars with build quality issues because they are buying the cars from the manufacturer and the dealerships owners have a interest in making sure the cars they accept are in good shape prior to be rolled off the truck. Also, at least around sales their customer service tends to be better than a company like Tesla - with no trained salespeople. Edited February 27 by CousinsCowgirl84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) I don't know. I generally don't seem to have this issue. I've generally been able to get dealerships to give me a clear quote including all fees. To me, today it is much better than it used to be. The last 2 cars we bought we knew exactly what the cost was before entering the dealership. The ability to text and e-mail has very much changed car buying IMO. The first new car I bought I spent a day walking back and forth between two dealers that were across the street from one another (not the same brand of car) until I got a deal hammered out where it was clear what the final price was going to be and was pretty sure I wasn't going to get a better deal. Edited February 27 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) i think it depends on the area. In Northern Virginia the significant number of customers are over-entitled assholes with more money than sense and the car sales people smell money and don’t give a **** about long-term customer relationships. When I tried buying cars from the dealerships in Tysons Corner I felt I was on some hidden camera TV show as the salespeople were so sleazy. It got to the point where my wife wouldn’t join me on visits out of embarrassment because of my blunt hostility to their shenanigans. I don’t find the experience typically bad elsewhere as we go in well informed on what we are prepared to pay and current market pricing and we just walk if they try any stupid games. But most do not. Edited February 27 by Corcaigh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said: And I've found the "$200 tip if you can get me in and out in an hour" works well Damn, that's pretty brilliant. Definitely gonna try that next time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) Sorry, wrong thread Edited February 27 by Riggo-toni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 A new car is a large and often complicated purchase. This tends to cause intellectual and financial insecurity in some parties and that insecurity can manifest in aggressive, confrontational behavior that makes the process even more complicated and perilous, especially for the retailer that has a great deal of factory bonus monies tied to customer satisfaction surveys. If the retailer gets the sense that the customer is going to cause significant issues during/after the transaction, they may decide to do business elsewhere, especially on a hot product that will quickly sell to a customer more secure with their role in the process. Happy shopping!! 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I understand the car market fluctuates due to demand/ supply, used car market, private sellers and increasing online auction sales. What I don’t understand was why this applied to buying a mattress. I bought one at a mattress warehouse or something like that in my twenties and I was not prepared for the hassle. There’s no used mattress market. People aren’t auctioning rare ones online for 10 times their msrp 30 years ago. to my knowledge there’s never been a shortage of mattresses. Why the hell are salesmen involved? Needless to say I’ve never been back to one of those places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 TradetheBeal and Krystal Koons are the same person? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 18 minutes ago, CobraCommander said: I understand the car market fluctuates due to demand/ supply, used car market, private sellers and increasing online auction sales. What I don’t understand was why this applied to buying a mattress. I bought one at a mattress warehouse or something like that in my twenties and I was not prepared for the hassle. There’s no used mattress market. People aren’t auctioning rare ones online for 10 times their msrp 30 years ago. to my knowledge there’s never been a shortage of mattresses. Why the hell are salesmen involved? Needless to say I’ve never been back to one of those places. I don't think even the car market is that complex. There are different levels of cars. Dealers make more money when they can get you to buy the higher level of car that costs more. I don't think MRSPs are set so that the car dealer makes the same amount money off of each car sale, but instead higher priced cars normally result in more money for the dealer. Sales people are trying to get you into the highest level car they can so the dealer will make more money. Mattresses aren't any different. Edited February 27 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCommander Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 28 minutes ago, PeterMP said: I don't think even the car market is that complex. There are different levels of cars. Dealers make more money when they can get you to buy the higher level of car that costs more. I don't think MRSPs are set so that the car dealer makes the same amount money off of each car sale, but instead higher priced cars normally result in more money for the dealer. Sales people are trying to get you into the highest level car they can so the dealer will make more money. Mattresses aren't any different. I’ve never leased a mattress and turned it in for a new model. I say mattresses are very different. I don’t get emails from mattressemax telling me my mattress has decrease 9% in value in a month. Edited February 27 by CobraCommander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Only real benefit I’ve ever personally experienced is the local availability of harder to find parts and warranty work. otherwise, they’re a layer of added cost that’s no longer necessary. They also raise prices beyond reason when market conditions allow them to get away without. As we’ve seen recently. Not a fan. I’d like direct purchasing from manufacturers to be a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 35 minutes ago, Corcaigh said: TradetheBeal and Krystal Koons are the same person? It’s been 20 years since I crossed paths with KK. She was a very sweet young lady back in those days and always very kind to me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Haven't gone to a dealer since 2018. Last three cars have been all purchased on Craigslist, used, for cash. It's kind of like ****ing without a condom on a first date from a rolling the dice perspective, but if you're okay with that, then it's not a big deal. Two of the cars have been great, one was a disaster but the upsides have been no car payments and no dealerships to deal with. Negotiating is easier. I don't hate walking on the lot and have hostility towards the industry like the OP does, but I certainly don't miss it either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, bearrock said: Damn, that's pretty brilliant. Definitely gonna try that next time. Have all the details worked out before hand. Send pics of your trade including any issues. Be up front about anything and tell them that unless they show you misrepresented something, if they attempt to renegotiate 1 penny, you will walk without another word said. Give them your info so all paperwork is ready. You shouldn't have any problems. It may help also when the sales manager sees your trade and goes Ooooooo. My last 4 cars I think ended up with the manager driving. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, TradeTheBeal! said: A new car is a large and often complicated purchase. This tends to cause intellectual and financial insecurity in some parties and that insecurity can manifest in aggressive, confrontational behavior that makes the process even more complicated and perilous, especially for the retailer that has a great deal of factory bonus monies tied to customer satisfaction surveys. If the retailer gets the sense that the customer is going to cause significant issues during/after the transaction, they may decide to do business elsewhere, especially on a hot product that will quickly sell to a customer more secure with their role in the process. Happy shopping!! translation: we all know we are dicks. **** off 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 42 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: It's kind of like ****ing without a condom on a first date You and I have had very different car buying experiences. @mcsluggo I’ve seen this rage before on r/nova and I think it was even over the same vehicle that’s got you on the war path. I’m not saying it was you, I’m saying that you’re not alone. Apparently dealerships here are being assholes, and especially so about the vehicle you’re after. tough time to buy made tougher still by dealerships that see it as an opportunity to gouge their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) I do find who responds how in this thread is interesting. I got no problem dropping a couple extra grand for a smother experience. If you're buying a higher end vehicle, what's that little bit really matter in the overall price? It's an added layer of expense? Yea, I know. I also know it isn't stolen and I can have a cup of coffee while I wait. Maybe a pastry if I'm spending enough. Edited February 27 by TheGreatBuzz @CousinsCowgirl84 is a douch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) I've literally bought 2 cars since college from dealerships (Mazda and Honda) and I'm 49. So yeah, this is not coming from a base of experience. But provided you aren't financing through them and you don't need the car immediately..I think dealerships (at least pre pandemic) were useful for at least test driving models and playing them off each other for lowest pricing. That said the general markup can appear to be insane and the slimeballs who work as sales there are the lowest of pond scum. 😆 Edited February 27 by The Evil Genius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I also know it isn't stolen amd I can have e a cup of coffee while I wait. 🤔 Baltimore living strikes again 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 So **** Sheehey Infiniti of Annapolis. Years back was gonna buy a Q60. They had a AWD one I was interested in. Sent the dude pics n info of my 2001 Volvo V70 I was looking to trade in. Offers me $300 in the trade in. 🤣 This mother****er did a hard inquiry into my credit history even tho I was going to pay cash as well. I told him yeah no I'm no longer interested. He texts me back weeks later about how he sold the car and if I'd had any luck finding another one. 🤣 I ended up looking him up online. His resume included a few DUIs. Donated that Volvo to a church up where my folks live. They sold it to someone for $3k. Ain't gonna lie I was pretty salty about that credit check knocking my score down to 750ish. 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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