Hamas Attacks Against Israel

[Gurgeh]

7 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

They are real rockets being smuggled in through tunnels from Egypt and supplied by Iran and Syria.  Obviously Iran and Syria aren't the most advanced rocket-makers in the world, but they aren't hobby rockets either. 

 

Gotta think those tunnels are going to be rooted out PDQ. 

 

Hamas has spent years digging surprisingly sophisticated tunnels throughout Gaza and building up fortified defenses. They're well armed with hand-held anti-tank weapons and drones from their Iranian buddies, and we know how effective those can be from Ukraine. There are relatively few ways for Israel to advance into Gaza, and Hamas has laid anti-tank mines across them. Given how much planning Hamas must have put into it's attack, it'd be foolish to think they haven't put in as much time preparing for an Israeli assault.

 

All that doesn't mean they're going to be able to stop the Israelis, but it's likely to be tough going and as usual it's going to be the civilians who suffer the most, especially as Hamas has a history of storing and firing weapons from residential buildings.

 

[RansomthePasserby]

2 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Hamas has spent years digging surprisingly sophisticated tunnels throughout Gaza and building up fortified defenses…

 

Yeah, this is going to be a horrific invasion.

[ClaytoAli]

23 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

 

and everyone in that region is not from that region…..
  

Edited October 11, 2023 by ClaytoAli

[PeterMP]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I've been struggling with this and reading Book of Joshua hasn't helped at all...

 

Case can be made none of these individual groups can make appropriate claims to this land they are fighting for because the original inhabitants were all killed one city at a time, every single inhabitant, and the land has basically been passing back and forth between "ownership" via some kinda war ever since.  Crusades, you name it.

 

This like if there was a hypothetical war here in US between groups claiming they were here first and thus real Americans, but instead of Native Americans raising their hands to object the irony of it they were actually all completely wiped out long time ago, none left at all.

 

Another reason I believe they should jus shut up and share it already versus this generational capture the flag nonsense.

 

I'm not pretending not to be a Christian here, but the book says what it says, there's no running from it.  The Promised Land wasn't given to them, it was conquered.

 

I believe we've discussed Exodus before.  Like Exodus (and even the enslavement of a large number of Jews in Egypt), there's no historical evidence that the Book of Joshua ever happened. The collapse of cities, mass deaths, and mass immigration of Jews into a territory should leave some historical evidence.  But none really exist.

 

It even appears to be against the moral code prescribed in the OT.  Exodus and the Book of Joshua read like/appear to be ancient Jewish propaganda.

 

The problem is that (many) conservative/orthodox Jews believe it is true. (and evangelical Christians)

 

1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Well, yea. This can all be traced back to one letter. 
 

https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration

 

That's not really true.  The Zionist movement and movement of Jews back into the area pre-dates the Balfour-Declaration.

 

They didn't move back and then fight over the land because the British government told them they could.  They did it because some believe that it is theirs as promised by God.  And it isn't like the Jews weren't willing to fight (use terrorism) against the British empire to get what they wanted.

Edited October 11, 2023 by PeterMP

[tshile]

1 hour ago, The 12th Commandment said:

Beyond the religious issues, there is the whole, western world divvying the  area up after WWII that contributes to the mess.

And western world continuing to meddle in their affairs 

 

[Cooked Crack]

Quote

In a private phone call Tuesday, President Joe Biden urged Israel’s prime minister to minimize civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip as Israel sets out to destroy Hamas in reprisal for the deadliest attack the country suffered in the last 50 years, two Biden administration officials and one former official told NBC News. 

 

The Biden administration is now coordinating with other countries on a plan that would offer safe passage out of Gaza for civilians who risk getting caught in the crossfire in the densely populated coastal enclave, administration officials said. 

 

Palestinian civilians and Americans in Gaza would escape the war zone through a Southern corridor leading into Egypt under the plan being considered. 

 

With Israel preparing for a potential ground incursion into Gaza, civilians who have no connection to Hamas are in danger of being left homeless or killed by the shelling.

 

[tshile]

Side note: cable news is about worthless 

 

between covering the same conversations in different phrases

 

spending time on the “it’s scary being a war reporter” stuff

 

and taking forever to move off whatever rehashed news item is to a new one so they can beat it to death too

 

twitter has them beat and badly. I’d rather have baseball on the tv and pull that latest up on Twitter. 

[Destino]

20 minutes ago, tshile said:

Side note: cable news is about worthless 

 

between covering the same conversations in different phrases

 

spending time on the “it’s scary being a war reporter” stuff

 

and taking forever to move off whatever rehashed news item is to a new one so they can beat it to death too

 

twitter has them beat and badly. I’d rather have baseball on the tv and pull that latest up on Twitter. 
 

 

 

agreed, but the number of people that have outed themselves as dangerous extremists is troubling. On one side you have people, mostly right wingers, proudly demanding Gaza be razed. On the other people that have decided that what Hamas did is good and just and a wonderful example of decolonization. 
 

It’s crazy to see people tell you that they view unrestrained violence as something to cheer on. 
 

 

[NickyJ]

14 minutes ago, tshile said:

Side note: cable news is about worthless 

 

between covering the same conversations in different phrases

 

spending time on the “it’s scary being a war reporter” stuff

 

and taking forever to move off whatever rehashed news item is to a new one so they can beat it to death too

 

twitter has them beat and badly. I’d rather have baseball on the tv and pull that latest up on Twitter. 

At the moment, there's not really much to add. I can't imagine how much more brutal the reports can be in Israel. Gaza is being razed building-by-building and the suffering will continue at its current pace until the invasion begins. Even when it starts, I doubt how much camera crews will be used. It will be street fighting with plain clothes fighters scattered through an obliterated city. Hardly a place for reporters to be trailed with camera crews.

Edited October 11, 2023 by NickyJ

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

That's not really true.  The Zionist movement and movement of Jews back into the area pre-dates the Balfour-Declaration.

 

They didn't move back and then fight over the land because the British government told them they could.  They did it because some believe that it is theirs as promised by God.  And it isn't like the Jews weren't willing to fight (use terrorism) against the British empire to get what they wanted.

It’s not entirely true, but it’s pretty true. 
 

Lots of people think and claim that God promised them lots of ****. God, being fiction, can’t actually give any of them anything. The British Empire circa 1917, on the other hand, had lots of power to promise people stuff and actually deliver, and so the Balfour Declaration laid a foundation of legitimacy for a Jewish state in Palestine with zero plan for the Palestinians. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I think y’all being too hard on msm…. Their job is to sell commercials. They do a mediocre job at that.

 

 

Twitter having them beat despite being ran by Elon Musk is quite something, isn’t it? The free speech absolutist bringing it home.

Edited October 11, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Jabbyrwock]

Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I think y’all being too hard on msm…. Their job is to sell commercials. They do a mediocre job at that.

 

 

Twitter having them beat despite being ran by Elon Musk is quite something, isn’t it?

 

Sure, if you think being valedictorian of the short bus qualifies as "something". 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Just now, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Sure, if you think being valedictorian of the short bus qualifies as "something". 

Twitter is the longest short bus though.

[tshile]

13 minutes ago, Destino said:

It’s crazy to see people tell you that they favor unrestrained violence as something to cheer on. 

just remember most of them would piss their pants if armed people stormed their town or buildings around them started blowing up in their entirety 

 

Everyone’s a macho badass when they’re talking about someone else’s situation 

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Twitter having them beat despite being ran by Elon Musk is quite something, isn’t it? The free speech absolutist bringing it home.

you’re so obnoxious 

 

Twitter serves its purpose, at the moment, in spite of musk

 

 

[Barry.Randolphe]

Twitter has been full of misinformation. It's become a piece of **** website because of Musk

 

https://apnews.com/article/twitter-x-hamas-israel-war-elon-musk-misinformation-5e344fc9134741d4f5dc17ed04262940

Quote

The social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter, says it is struggling with a flood of posts sharing graphic media, violent speech and hateful conduct about the Israel-Hamas war. But it has received a broadside of criticism, including from a top European Union official, questioning the adequacy of the response.

 

Outside watchdog groups said misinformation about the war abounds on the platform, whose workforce — including its content moderation team — was gutted by billionaire Elon Musk after he bought it last year.

 

Fake and manipulated imagery circulating on X include “repurposed old images of unrelated armed conflicts or military footage that actually originated from video games,” said a Tuesday letter to Musk from European Commissioner Thierry Breton. “This appears to be manifestly false or misleading information.”

 

Breton, the EU’s digital rights chief, also warned Musk that authorities have been flagging “potentially illegal content” that could violate EU laws and “you must be timely, diligent and objective” in removing it when warranted.

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

7 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

Twitter has been full of misinformation. It's become a piece of **** website because of Musk

 

https://apnews.com/article/twitter-x-hamas-israel-war-elon-musk-misinformation-5e344fc9134741d4f5dc17ed04262940

 

Yes, I agree. I’m not the one that championed it as a main stream media slayer, @tshile did. 🤡

 

Anyway, I’m moving on.

Edited October 11, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[tshile]

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Yes, I agree. I’m not the one that championed it as a main stream media slayer, @tshile did. 🤡

 

Anyway, I’m moving on.

To be clear - I’m championing a subset of Twitter users

[Destino]

22 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

Twitter has been full of misinformation. It's become a piece of **** website because of Musk

 

https://apnews.com/article/twitter-x-hamas-israel-war-elon-musk-misinformation-5e344fc9134741d4f5dc17ed04262940

 

I’m not an Elon stan, and think he’s probably a legitimately crazy person, that we are watching grow more and more deranged… but this idea that misinformation is new to social media is wild to me. The idea that misinformation was somehow always combatted and that Elon has changed everything simply doesn’t line up with my experience. Remember what went on a few elections back with Facebook? Remember when ISIS and Al Qaeda were distributing propaganda on major social media sites? 
 

And I’m not onboard with governments demanding things be taken down immediately without any checks on that power. I’m opposed to that from China, and I’m opposed to that from the EU. 

 

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

To be clear - I’m championing a subset of Twitter users

And I’m agreeing. It’s much faster and covers things the media will not. 

[tshile]

So as a general thought. 
 

I am surprised how little the pro-Palestinian voice has been and how resoundingly it was shouted down. 
 

I expected a more contentious discussion on it. 

[Barry.Randolphe]

4 minutes ago, Destino said:

I’m not an Elon stan, and think he’s probably a legitimately crazy person, that we are watching grow more and more deranged… but this idea that misinformation is new to social media is wild to me. The idea that misinformation was somehow always combatted and that Elon has changed everything simply doesn’t line up with my experience. Remember what went on a few elections back with Facebook? Remember when ISIS and Al Qaeda were distributing propaganda on major social media sites? 
 

And I’m not onboard with governments demanding things be taken down immediately without any checks on that power. I’m opposed to that from China, and I’m opposed to that from the EU. 

 

And I’m agreeing. It’s much faster and covers things the media will not. 

 

The issue is that Captain Dip**** removed software and teams of people who were in charge of trying to fight misinformation. It has always been a problem like you mention, the issue is that he has only made it much worse and magnified it

[PleaseBlitz]

Way too much discussion of Elon Musk in this particular thread. 

[Barry.Randolphe]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

So as a general thought. 
 

I am surprised how little the pro-Palestinian voice has been and how resoundingly it was shouted down. 
 

I expected a more contentious discussion on it. 

 

You're conflating two separate issues at hand here. I support Palestinian rights, and I don't support Hamas. I can support Palestinian rights and agree that Israel deserves to exist. Being pro-Palestine ≠ being pro-Hamas.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

The issue is that Captain Dip**** removed software and teams of people who were in charge of trying to fight misinformation. It has always been a problem like you mention, the issue is that he has only made it much worse and magnified it

The biggest mistake I can see Elon has made is his blue check nonsense. The percentage of those lunatics that spread conspiracy theories is too high and their status gives their madness prominent placement. But the real misinformation problem has never been a lack of misinformation teams scrubbing content. It’s long been social media algorithms themselves. They’ve been shown to lead you down a path of increasing outrage and towards more radical sources and arguments. (This also why I’m very much opposed to kids using social media.) social media magnifies fringe opinions and warps perception. The crap that is popular on twitter for example, is often deeply unpopular in real life nationally. 
 

 

[tshile]

49 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

You're conflating two separate issues at hand here. I support Palestinian rights, and I don't support Hamas. I can support Palestinian rights and agree that Israel deserves to exist. Being pro-Palestine ≠ being pro-Hamas.

im not conflating them in the sense that I don’t understand it. 
 

i get someone who supports Palestinian rights may also object to what Hamas did. 
 

I just expected the “desperate people do desperate things” and “don’t let Isreal turn them to ruble” sort of stuff to exist beyond what seems to be the fringe 

when I referenced it being shouted down is wasn’t really referring to the “yeah, exactly what Isreal deserves” crowd