2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Redwards]

15 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I would not support limiting Howells reps like some veteran starter who jus needs to go through the motions.

 

He's 22 in a brand new offense, act like it.

I just don't trust Ron to do the right thing by the players in preseason.  He's wasted three preseasons in a row by putting his starters in bubble wrap, hence Ron's famously lackluster starts to the season.  It takes the team nearly half the season to get accustomed to contact and develop cohesion because of the lack of play during the preseason.  Then Ron acts all surprised as to why things aren't jelling the way they should be.  

 

Sam indeed needs all the reps he can get.  Ditto Chase Young, who has a world to prove.  He wants people to forget that fact that he totally sucked for 9 games before getting injured.  We need our starters and projected starters getting quality preseason game reps for a change.  They all need it anyway, but especially this year on offense with so many new parts and playing in a brand new system with a ton of new verbiage.  I remember the Al Saunders offense and first preseason very, very well...

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

You make Bowers sound incredible. I am not sure he has the blocking ability of those guys, especially Mayer but he has a year to grow and learn. He looks much quicker than Mayer and LaPorta also

 

I likes other over Stromberg, (not that I didn't like him), same with Pace but LaPorta was my favorite TE to match with Howell right away and allow to cut the injury waiting to happen Thomas and give some cap relief. I won't soon get over Pace not getting drafted at all, way better player than most that went in the 6th and 7th rounds in my opinion. 

LaPorta was my TE1 in the end. Campbell LB1. Pace LB2. Ugh.

[Redwards]

15 hours ago, MartinC said:

You’re going to put your first string QB out on the field behind your 2nd and 3rd string O’line?? Not a chance in hell that happens. 

Devil's advocate: if he's playing later in the game where our 2nd and 3rd string Oline is playing, then by all accounts they should be playing agains the opposition's 2nd and 3rd string defense.

 

So...are we afraid our depth is that bad that they can't protect Sam against an equal 2nd and 3rd string defense?

 

Chemistry HAS to happen in this offseason.  New QB, new players around him, new system.  So either you risk getting Howell hurt (you can get hurt at home) or you plop him in to start the season with nothing much more than camp reps under his belt.  The result is another famously slow start while we take half the season to develop chemistry.  Ron's job will be lost before mid-season.  If Ron has any shred of job preservation, he'll play Sam more than his usual bubble wrap mentality dictates, IMO.

[Redwards]

14 hours ago, RVAskins said:

One thing I can say about preseason, I'm so glad it's only 3 games. 4 games was pure hell.

I think I'm one of the very, very few that actually enjoyed the four preseason games.  I liked getting a longer look at the long-shot, late drafted or not-drafted-at-all players.  Maybe I'm the only one on the planet that enjoyed having all four games.  🤓

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Redwards said:

 

 

So...are we afraid our depth is that bad that they can't protect Sam against an equal 2nd and 3rd string defense?

 

 

Yes. Yes I am. 

[Redwards]

10 hours ago, samy316 said:

All of this is Ron’s fault.  An unforced error that didn’t have to happen. Ron really isn’t the brightest tool in the shed.  Incidents like this just amplifies it.  His media acumen is exactly like his coaching acumen, mediocre.

Agreed.

 

I've made my feelings on Rivera clear more than once, so I won't go all into it yet again.  I respect the man, I have very little respect for him as a coach here (and I think he gets way too much credit for the supposed culture change.)  I respect others who feel differently though.

 

But what I want to know (and what nobody that I've seen has brought up in any media outlet) is that if Ron had done such a bang-up job with instilling such a wonderful new culture that he gets lauded for, then why on earth did we need yet another culture change??   EB is getting applauded every other day for changing the culture.  So...what exactly does Ron do here?

Edited August 10, 2023 by Redwards

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, Redwards said:

 

 

So...are we afraid our depth is that bad that they can't protect Sam against an equal 2nd and 3rd string defense?

I'm woried about our first blocking against other teams 2's and 3's.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Koolblue13

[ntotoro]

6 minutes ago, Redwards said:

But what I want to know (and what nobody that I've seen has brought up in any media outlet) is that if Ron had done such a bang-up job with instilling such a wonderful new culture that he gets lauded for, than why on earth did we need yet another culture change??

 

I don't look at "don't be an *******" as culture change, just common sense. It's the bigotry of low expectations. We expected so little of Snyder that a guy coming in doing common sense stuff, not ogling female employees or cooking the books was seen as a culture shift. Ron is really no more special than anyone else in that regard, simply for not being Dan Snyder.

 

His personnel decisions have been mediocre, his coaching decisions have been questionable and now he feels EB breathing down his neck. He's reacted poorly publicly from that recently, as well.

 

Edit: Self-censored as my colorful metaphor was not caught.

Edited August 10, 2023 by ntotoro

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

LaPorta was my TE1 in the end. Campbell LB1. Pace LB2. Ugh.

 

I thought you were one of the Michael Mayer guys? It's been too long so I forget where everyone stood on that group.

[DWinzit]

28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

OT/QB is almost definitely going to be priority 1. I’m hoping QB is good for now.

 

OT would be priority 1… we’d just need to be in range for one. Otherwise we stray from BPA.

Yes, they need to bring in a quality OT next year. Depending on what occurs this season, we may also require a quality G.

Whether Howell proves to be a quality starter or not, there will need to be QB decisions made at QB2.

Then it could be Edge depending as all of our will be FAs.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I thought you were one of the Michael Mayer guys? It's been too long so I forget where everyone stood on that group.

I started on him, yes. By the time the draft came I soured on him a bit. I think he was TE 2 or 3 for me. Him and Washington were close. I was lower on Kincaid because I thought he was more receiver than TE. 

[samy316]

7 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I don't look at "don't be an asshole" as culture change, just common sense. It's the bigotry of low expectations. We expected so little of Snyder than a guy coming in doing common sense stuff and not ogling female employees or cooking the books was seen as a culture shift. Ron is really no more special than anyone else in that regard, simply for not being Dan Snyder.

 

I look at it like this:  He gets high regards from me for changing the culture.  He's done a pretty good job with shaping the culture and keeping distractions away from the players.  Where he loses me is his actual abilities as a coach.  He's a C-level coach at best, and I'm pretty generous with that grade.  He's a bottom third coach, and if we didn't have Dan Snyder as an owner, Rivera would probably be a DC on some team, or not coaching at all.  He's not innovative, he's not flexible and worst of all, he's a defensive minded coach in a league where the trend is young, offensive minded coaches taking over the league.  We don't value analytics, and Rivera simply coaches with his "gut instincts" a majority of the time, which is archaic in today's league.  The sooner we move on from Rivera, the better I will feel about our prospects moving forward.

Edited August 10, 2023 by samy316

[kfrankie]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm woried about our first blocking against other teams 2's and 3's.

 

My biggest concern is that Ron switches Sam Cosmi to edge.  I'm not talking about back to right tackle, I'm suggesting a switch to edge rusher on defense.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, kfrankie said:

 

My biggest concern is that Ron switches Sam Cosmi to edge.  I'm not talking about back to right tackle, I'm suggesting a switch to edge rusher on defense.

That's fantastic that that is your biggest concern. Lucky you.

[88Comrade2000]

8 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

I look at it like this:  He gets high regards from me for changing the culture.  He's done a pretty good job with shaping the culture and keeping distractions away from the players.  Where he loses me is his actual abilities as a coach.  He's a C-level coach at best, and I'm pretty generous with that grade.  He's a bottom third coach, and if we didn't have Dan Snyder as an owner, Rivera would probably be a DC on some team, or not coaching at all.  He's not innovative, he's not flexible and worst of all, he's a defensive minded coach in a league where the trend is young, offensive minded coaches taking over the league.  We don't value analytics, and Rivera simply coaches with his "gut instincts" a majority of the time, which is archaic in today's league.  The sooner we move on from Rivera, the better I will feel about our prospects moving forward.

Yeah baby.  The sooner we move on from him, the better.

 

Frankly, we should move on from him; regardless what happens this year.

 

That won’t happen.  If he reaches some metric, he probably returns. What is that metric?  Playoff appearance? Playoff win? Deep Run(at least an nfc championship appearance)?

 

Josh absolutely needs to bring in his own Gm. One problem, Ron has that power. Will Ron willingly give that up? This potential disagreement could lead to his parting.

 

For us to become a good franchise again, we have to move on from Dan’s hires. Until we do, we will be mired in mediocrity.

[redskinss]

[Bantu]

1 minute ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Yeah baby.  The sooner we move on from him, the better.

 

Frankly, we should move on from him; regardless what happens this year.

 

That won’t happen.  If he reaches some metric, he probably returns. What is that metric?  Playoff appearance? Playoff win? Deep Run(at least an nfc championship appearance)?

 

Josh absolutely needs to bring in his own Gm. One problem, Ron has that power. Will Ron willingly give that up? This potential disagreement could lead to his parting.

 

For us to become a good franchise again, we have to move on from Dan’s hires. Until we do, we will be mired in mediocrity.

 

Not a good idea to to bring in a GM, thus demoting Ron from that position, and then retaining him as HC. 

 

I think Ron's administration has been decent given the lay of the land here in Washington under prior ownership; however, the results are mediocre at best across the board. His contract is up which is the perfect time for all parties to move on. 

[Acworth skins fan]

31 minutes ago, Bantu said:

 

Not a good idea to to bring in a GM, thus demoting Ron from that position, and then retaining him as HC. 

 

I think Ron's administration has been decent given the lay of the land here in Washington under prior ownership; however, the results are mediocre at best across the board. His contract is up which is the perfect time for all parties to move on. 

He still has this and next year under contract. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

You make Bowers sound incredible. I am not sure he has the blocking ability of those guys, especially Mayer but he has a year to grow and learn. He looks much quicker than Mayer and LaPorta also

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'll be interested to see how that plays out over the year. At least we know he efforts...more than can be said for some! 

I've only read a little to date on him, but blocking was a knock.

 

If he can block decent he would be a sweet addition if T and QB is indeed resolved pre-draft next season.

Edited August 10, 2023 by DWinzit

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I don't want to say "meh", but his blocking assignments really were easier with a super blocking 275lb Darnell Washington next to him. He can connect in space sure, and that's great, but we should be cautious about assuming he can block in-line when closer in and next to an OT. His assignments would start getting into more gnarly territory than what he did previously.

 

I think people should, unless 2023 film shows otherwise, consider him a better 2022 Dalton Kincaid. Best viewed as a receiver that's a plus blocker in space.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I understand Ron’s latest media debacle fits, but perhaps it’s time for an all encompassing Rivera thread.  I really don’t understand the obsession with him and how awful, terrible, bottom-third he is in nearly every thread.

I’m all for the new regime cleaning house if they see fit.  I will shed zero tears to see him go.  But you’d think he’d been handed a well oiled organization in good shape and couldn’t muster a five win season the way folks talk about him.

 

He’s not great at the mic, clearly.  But unless this team goes on a tear, his days are clearly numbered.  I’d rather hear about the facade of a kicking competition than read about how awful Ron is everywhere.  My 2 cents.

 

As for how long Sam plays, it’s easy to say he needs to play a zillion snaps…until he gets hurt in a meaningless, glorified practice.  I do think he needs to play every week, but risk/reward is in play here and vanilla defenses aren’t going to prove whether he can play or not.

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, samy316 said:

 

I look at it like this:  He gets high regards from me for changing the culture.  He's done a pretty good job with shaping the culture and keeping distractions away from the players.  Where he loses me is his actual abilities as a coach.  He's a C-level coach at best, and I'm pretty generous with that grade.  He's a bottom third coach, and if we didn't have Dan Snyder as an owner, Rivera would probably be a DC on some team, or not coaching at all.  He's not innovative, he's not flexible and worst of all, he's a defensive minded coach in a league where the trend is young, offensive minded coaches taking over the league.  We don't value analytics, and Rivera simply coaches with his "gut instincts" a majority of the time, which is archaic in today's league.  The sooner we move on from Rivera, the better I will feel about our prospects moving forward.

I have my concerns with Ron, especially some of the in-game decisions, so I hear you there.  Here’s hoping moving Zampese into his new role can help Ron on that front… though I’d hope Zampese gets some analytic help.

 

Speaking of which, I could well be wrong, but I think the jury is still out on the analytics side of things - ie is our almost nonexistent analytics “staff” a result of Snyder, Ron, or both?  Does Harris give him help on this front sooner rather than later?  If so, how does Rivera respond to that change?

 

I’m curious what leads you to call him inflexible.  From my perspective, he fired Mills, brought in Kerrigan.  He fired Turner and brought in a guy that brings with him what Logan Paulsen calls a “cutting edge offense”.  He brought in the Marty’s and has passed some of his HC duties to EB, including setting up a radically different practice strategy.

I don’t recall seeing anything from him that I’d categorize as innovative, though I can see an argument that he’s willing for his coordinators to try more innovative things - Del Rio with 5 down lineman, 3 safeties, and zone matching (admittedly I don’t know just how innovative those things are).

I personally don’t inherently have a problem with defensive minded HCs (Belichick/Smith), though I think they need to give a lot of leeway to their OCs in that case.  Sure wouldn’t mind finding our Kyle/Sean/etc though.

[Bantu]

57 minutes ago, Acworth skins fan said:

He still has this and next year under contract. 

  Oh sorry, my mistake. This is his 4th season.

[kfrankie]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's fantastic that that is your biggest concern. Lucky you.

 

Well, realistically my biggest concerns are that:

 

(1) there was no talent on the offensive line last year;

(2) their best lineman (Leno) is average at best, and is now 31;

(3) they plugged one gap by signing Wylie, but ignored the position in the draft to take 2 defensive backs;

(4) they're trying to sell a 7th round draft pick named Chris Paul as an answer, and

(5) they're counting on a guy that the Giants kicked to the curb, who has been limited to 12 starts in the past 2 years and wasn't anything special when he did pay, to start at center.

 

Then, i would rank the risk of Ron pushing Cosmi to edge rusher as my #6 concern.