2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Skinsinparadise]

OK, some sunshine about the O line.  Listened to Keim and the beginning of Finlays.  To combine them.

 

A.  O line popped on Sunday -- according to Tishcler they finally in the run game. 

 

B.  Stromberg looked good against Allen-Mathis in one on ones.  But Keim expects he's going to have to take some reps at guard in training camp to prep to be a backup, otherwise he's likely going to be inactive on game days.

 

C.  O line has been hearing the noise from some who have watched practice that they are not looking good.  Coaches are aware of it too.

 

D. Playing off of point C -- the coaches are working to build the offensive line's confidence in practice and trying to boost them with praise, etc.

 

E. They liked that Cosmi got pissed on Friday.  Keim seemed to be hinting that this coaching staff wants to see more fight from the unit and liked to see the feistiness.  They like Gates' attitude -- has some swagger.

 

F.  Finlay and crew expect Paul to beat Charles and that will be good for the unit.

 

G.  Sweat giving Wylie fits still in practice

 

H.  The D lineman are taking some O lineman to the side during practice and showing them how to counter their moves

Edited August 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

There will be games where Washington runs for 150 plus yards and wins 23-17 spearheaded by the rushing attack. Would that be dominant? 

 

Not if its done with less than 4 yards per carry like last season.

 

24 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I disagree, an NFL game rarely is this linear. 
 

 

Whether a game is linear or not had zero to do with my point.

 

24 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Time, location, people involved, craving on that day, how much time you have to eat, nostalgia, desire to pass down favorites to kids can all play a significant role in what wins that day: fine cuisine or McDonald’s. 

 

 

 

Your point seems to center on any given Sunday weird things can happen -- outliers emerge.  Yeah sure, they are going to beat a team that no one expects.  They are going to lose to a team that likewise no expects.   Mediocre players will have a career type days.  And great players will have an off day.

 

So what though?  The same point applies to every team.

 

24 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Great accomplishment for this to be the expectation. If Howell can be dynamic just enough the win total will increase. 

 

It's malpractice from this FO IMO if the O line ends up sucking especially considering context.  Howell shouldn't be tasked to overcome the unit.  He's not a 10 year veteran.  Desmond Ridder for example who is in the same boat as Howell was given for example a killer O line.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I just noticed we have CB DaMarcus Fields. I liked him coming out of Texas Tech. I hope he can stick. 

[wit33]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not if its done with less than 4 yards per carry like last season.

 

Offense was good in between the 20s, atrocious in the red zone. The run game was effective in many games. 

 

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Whether a game is linear or not had zero to do with my point.

 

Your point was DB vs WRs, it doesn’t work that way in my world, many other factors involved.
 

The Chiefs for example had a college secondary playing in the SB. 
 

 

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Your point seems to center on any given Sunday weird things can happen -- outliers emerge.  Yeah sure, they are going to beat a team that no one expects.  They are going to lose to a team that likewise no expects.   Mediocre players will have a career type days.  And great players will have an off day.

 

No, every Sunday this is the case. 
 

The elite QB tilts things in their teams favor though. 
 

Sure, unique defenses come every so often or a unique head coach/OC that tilts things their way. 
 

The Eagles will most likely  win against Washington because they have Jalen Hurts. End of story. 
 

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So what though?  The same point applies to every team.

 

 

It's malpractice from this FO IMO if the O line ends up sucking especially considering context.  Howell shouldn't be tasked to overcome the unit.  He's not a 10 year veteran.  Desmond Ridder for example who is in the same boat as Howell was given for example a killer O line.  

Falcons Oline had cool PFF scores because they had a dual threat QB led by an RPO/RO offense. Slightly ignorant on my part lol, but easy pattern to see that playing Oline in this type of scheme provides great opportunities for an Olineman to grade out well.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by wit33

[DiscoBob]

19 hours ago, DiscoBob said:

Does anyone have Curtis Samuels cell phone number, I'd like to call him to get a groin update

 

19 hours ago, madden lot said:

777-9311

 

17 hours ago, DiscoBob said:

 

He said 7 / 10... and **** off!

 

Hey all, the Curtis Samuel groin hotline is screening my calls, could someone hit me up with the daily groin update.  I need regular groin content from my fellow commandos...

[Chris 44]

I may be late but don't see it posted anywhere yet, but apparently Apke to IR. Shoulder injury.

[SmallDaddy]

20 hours ago, madden lot said:

777-9311

Anyone who references The Time in 2023 is alright in my book. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

The run game was effective in many games. 

 

 

Whether using conventional metrics or anayltics, not really.  But they get an A for committment.  They'd run and run.  But were one of the least effective teams as to gains per run.

 

Run ranking on DVOA at the end of the post.

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Your point was DB vs WRs, it doesn’t work that way in my world, many other factors involved.

 

 

I was explaining that teams try to scheme around weaknesses.  I didn't go in depth about any point but superfically gave examples.  Just like its not as simple as saying Bieniemy will throw screen after screen to scheme around the O line -- of course its more complex and deeper than that.    But people were making the case that the O line can be protected by scheme.  My response is its not the only unit that you can TRY to scheme around a weakness.  As for the details into how to do that.  It's an entirely different conversation.  

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

No, every Sunday this is the case. 

 

 

Every Sunday it happens in a game or two.  But it doesn't happen in every game for a specific team,  Colt McCoy can have the game of his life on MNF against Dallas but he's not going to have the game of his life every week.  That's how outliers work.  

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

The elite QB tilts things in their teams favor though. 

 

 

Sure.  But what does that have to do with having arguably a bad O line?  Heck there was a story I read about the Chiefs were they were determined to upgrade their O line because they felt that one year their weakness with that unit put limits on Mahomes.  If your point is if we had an elite QB they can overcome a bad O line, i mostly agree.  But we don't know that Howell is elite so what's the point?  For now, I'd be happy if he's Kirk-Carr level good.   

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

The Eagles will most likely  win against Washington because they have Jalen Hurts. End of story. 

 

 

Why do they bother and focus on upgrading their O line and weapons?  Because they are dumb?  It's obviously not just about Hurts.

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Falcons Oline had cool PFF scores because they had a dual threat QB led by an RPO/RO offense. Slightly ignorant on my part lol, but easy pattern to see that playing Oline in this type of scheme provides great opportunities for an Olineman to grade out well.

 

 

Logan Paulsen got into that team's unit in depth.  In his mind among others, its the real deal.  High pedigreed O line.

 

https://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/falcons-building-blocks-chris-lindstrom-contract-extension

Arthur Smith said this offseason that the Falcons offensive line would be a foundational element of this organization. He wasn't lying.

Atlanta has invested heavily in its front, with the biggest paycheck now going to a young guard regarded among the best in the NFL. Chris Lindstrom signed a five-year contract extension that links him to Atlanta through the 2028 season. He'll be just 31 at that time, relatively young for an offensive lineman, and could end up like Grady Jarrett or Jake Matthews in earning a third contract from the same club.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The D lineman are taking some O lineman to the side during practice and showing them how to counter their moves

I love hearing this.

[Wyvern]

51 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Falcons Oline had cool PFF scores because they had a dual threat QB led by an RPO/RO offense. Slightly ignorant on my part lol, but easy pattern to see that playing Oline in this type of scheme provides great opportunities for an Olineman to grade out well.

 

Or it might be because the Falcons had three of their 1st round picks manning the O-line, plus a FA O-lineman who was Seattle's 1st round pick.  (BTW, that FA signed somewhere else and was replaced by Atlanta's 2nd round pick of 2023.)

 

Atlanta has invested a lot of early round picks in their O-line, and certainly more than Washington has done.  Perhaps Bieniemy's schemes can elevate the Washington O-line's performance, but I think Atlanta had good talent to work with from the start.  

 

At least Washington invested its 2023 3rd and 4th round picks on O-line; in the recent past they tended to go looking for bargains in the late rounds with the occasional economical FA.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

I love hearing this.

 

Yeah listening to the narrative feels a bit Eye of the Tigerish, Rocky 3.  Not that they are falling from being at the top perch.  But that the negativity might have had a good effect on their mindset to show people they don't suck?

 

While neither reporter mentioned people like me, @Koolblue13, etc who have been criticizing them.  I think that's who they are referencing.  So in short, if this unit is motivated to show up the critics.  I think some of us on this thread should take credit for their motivation. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think some of us on this thread should take credit for their motivation.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

 

 

Agree all of us critics should take a victory lap if the negativity is an impetus for their season.  😎

 

Actually in all seriousness, i don't discount negativity as a motivational factor.  i like hearing that the o lineman and coaching staff are absorbing the criticism and are reacting to it. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree all of us critics should take a victory lap if the negativity is an impetus for their season.  😎

 

Actually in all seriousness, i don't discount negativity as a motivational factor.  i like hearing that the o lineman and coaching staff is absorbing the criticism and are reacting to it. 

Criticism can bee a powerful motivator when warranted. I think it was needed. Let's see how they respond.

[wit33]

11 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Or it might be because the Falcons had three of their 1st round picks manning the O-line, plus a FA O-lineman who was Seattle's 1st round pick.  (BTW, that FA signed somewhere else and was replaced by Atlanta's 2nd round pick of 2023.)

 

Atlanta has invested a lot of early round picks in their O-line, and certainly more than Washington has done.  Perhaps Bieniemy's schemes can elevate the Washington O-line's performance, but I think Atlanta had good talent to work with from the start.  

 

At least Washington invested its 2023 3rd and 4th round picks on O-line; in the recent past they tended to go looking for bargains in the late rounds with the occasional economical FA.

Falcons Oline ranking:

 

2021 #27

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

 

 

2022 #28

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-unit-rankings-tiers-2022

 

Then boom… Arthur Smith and dual threat run game and magic. 

[KillBill26]

42 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I may be late but don't see it posted anywhere yet, but apparently Apke to IR. Shoulder injury.

Great, our season is over before it even began.  

[FootballZombie]

35 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I may be late but don't see it posted anywhere yet, but apparently Apke to IR. Shoulder injury.

 

Sweet Jeebus No!

 

Season's over

pack it up

 

No one could replace his inability to even make the roster this year.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Logan Paulsen got into that team's unit in depth.  In his mind among others, its the real deal.  High pedigreed O line.

If REDACTED ends up playing behind that line they’re going to look … not as good. 

[Chris 44]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Sweet Jeebus No!

 

Season's over

pack it up

 

No one could replace his inability to even make the roster this year.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Falcons Oline ranking:

 

2021 #27

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

 

 

2022 #28

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-unit-rankings-tiers-2022

 

Then boom… Arthur Smith and dual threat run game and magic. 

 

How about they invested a lot in the unit.  3rd most in the league in captial then boom, the young guys develop and they keep adding to that unit.  And get good.  i don't thnk it was all about RPOs and Mariotta.  Andrew Thomas was considered a bust by some after his rookie year, now he's considered a top 5 LT.  It's a spot like LB that tends to take some time.

 

You are helping making this unit soft with all this praise.    It's apparently the criticism that's making this unit a bit mad and might be a motivational tool.  

 

But seriously, you can like the posts criticizing Josh Harris which I noticed you did.  And double down on Ron.  But Ron isn't the future.  Harris is.   It will play out the way it should.  I am not worried.  I'd love Ron to be vindicated.  I'd have to be top 5 here in pro Ron posts.  But I've had enough with his slow play on this roster.  If they don't make the playoffs, almost zero chance he returns.  And i seriously doubt the next FO will be this lax about buildng this unit.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Offense was good in between the 20s, atrocious in the red zone. The run game was effective in many games. 

 

 

Your point was DB vs WRs, it doesn’t work that way in my world, many other factors involved.
 

The Chiefs for example had a college secondary playing in the SB. 
 

 

 

No, every Sunday this is the case. 
 

The elite QB tilts things in their teams favor though. 
 

Sure, unique defenses come every so often or a unique head coach/OC that tilts things their way. 
 

The Eagles will most likely  win against Washington because they have Jalen Hurts. End of story. 
 

Falcons Oline had cool PFF scores because they had a dual threat QB led by an RPO/RO offense. Slightly ignorant on my part lol, but easy pattern to see that playing Oline in this type of scheme provides great opportunities for an Olineman to grade out well.

 

Im still not sold on Hurts. I need to see another season before I think he is the best QB in the NFC East.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[kingdaddy]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Actually, everything I said before still holds true.  Injury prone is one thing, and if he had gotten a leg or back injury, that would have been true, his injury history would have been a factor.   He smacked his hand on a helmet and broke a finger.  That's not injury prone.  That's bad luck. 

 

The reason I said Wentz wasn't really injury prone is he had gone 2 full years without missing a game, and his ACL and Back injuries appeared to be behind him.  

 

His injury wasn't the issue anyway.  The issue is it turned out he couldn't hit the ocean while sitting in a rowboat 30 miles off the coast of Iceland. 

 

I have no issue saying I was wrong on Wentz in that I thought he would be able to play up to the level he played at in 2021.  He didn't.  Shrug.  I was wrong. He was damaged good between the ears and that was that.  

its all good, I'm just busting your chops. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Jon Allen looks like a monster. We finally have some able and worthy leaders on this team. On both sides of the ball. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[RandyHolt]

Is there any chance Quan will be a starter? Saying no but its OK because he will get snaps doesn't mean much in the current era when most everyone on D sees the field every week. I feel like a 2nd rounder on someone on D should be a day 1 starter/impact player and Martin just seems like a luxury pick at a position of strength.  I still think we didn't need DB help yet used our first 2 picks there. It's grinding on me. We talk a lot about our OLs expected sucktitude which is going to make Sam and EBs jobs really difficult.

 

Where do our TE's rank vs the rest of the league? What about our LBs? If our offense sucks it will waste a solid D so whats the point of continuing to add DL and DBs as a priority? I hope Ron is stripped of any GM duties.

Edited August 8, 2023 by RandyHolt