Trump on Trial (Trump indicted for a fourth time in Georgia. Expands his record of most indictments by a former president)

[Fergasun]

Trump lawyers during impeachment:  Criminal court proceedings are the proper venue, not impeachment.  So even if he is not impeached, he can be pursued in criminal proceedings.

 

Trump lawyers during criminal court proceedings:  You can't take a former President to court.  Only impeachment is the proper venue!  

 

Hypothetical question in court (paraphrasing discussion of what I read):  So a President could use Seal Team 6 to assassinate political rivals, resign and he would be immune from prosecution?

[EmirOfShmo]

Good read on the hearing...

 

Summary of Oral Arguments in Trump Immunity Hearing

 

Donald Trump's appeal of District Judge Tanya Chutkan's denial of his assertion of presidential immunity was heard today by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. Three judges, one Republican and two Democratic appointees of three different presidents, heard the case today - Judges Karen Henderson, Michelle Childs, and Florence Pan.

A sitting president generally has immunity from criminal prosecution for any actions taken during the course of his duties as president. Trump asserts that when he was attempting to subvert the 2020 election results, he was performing his duty as president by "exposing election fraud." Special Counsel Jack Smith asserts that the election was over, the courts had all denied dozens of his elections challenges, and that he was engaged in a criminal enterprise for his own personal benefit and not acting on behalf of the American people.

Judge Chutkan agreed with the government's position in denying Trump's r

 

 

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/summary-of-oral-arguments-in-trump-immunity-hearing

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[Destino]

The Trump strategy has long been delay delay delay. All of these different absurd legal strategies like the one we see today are all aimed towards this one goal.

 

so my question is this, will his various trials be complete before November or is his strategy working? 

[EmirOfShmo]

Republican Former Members of Congress: Courts Should Move ‘As Quickly As Possible’ to Resolve Trump Cases

An open letter.

 

“EQUAL JUSTICE BEFORE THE LAW” IS A BEDROCK PRINCIPLE of our legal system and our democracy. It is rooted in a fundamental proposition of this country’s founding: That we are a nation of laws, not of men, and accordingly no man is above the law.

As former members of Congress, all of us Republicans, we dedicated ourselves to upholding this principle. And we are now deeply concerned that former President Donald Trump’s response to the ongoing criminal prosecutions against him are testing it—requiring the U.S. Supreme Court to act swiftly to meet the moment. In no case is this more true than in Special Counsel Jack Smith’s prosecution of Trump for his attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election. In this case, the federal courts are confronted with Trump’s gambit to escape accountability altogether: assert an unprecedented claim of absolute presidential immunity from criminal prosecution and use the appellate process to delay the trial until after the November election.

 

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/republican-former-members-of-congress-trump-case

[Jumbo]

A reminder that there are at least ten million, to pick a number for illustration, people who still identify as republicans (unfortunate choice at this point imo) that aren't irredeemably vile maga-ts.

 

Whatever the actual number is, and despite the still passionate and serious policy differences any left-leaners may have with them, it's a fact that I think should be kept in mind, even for those of us,  who, like me, independent of we label ourselves, have an intensely negative take on maga.

[skinsmarydu]

32 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

A reminder that there are at least ten million, to pick a number for illustration, people who still identify as republicans (unfortunate choice at this point imo) that aren't irredeemably vile maga-ts.

 

Whatever the actual number is, and despite the still passionate and serious policy differences any left-leaners may have with them, it's a fact that I think should be kept in mind, even for those of us,  who, like me, independent of we label ourselves, have an intensely negative take on maga.

My mom & I don't talk politics anymore, but I think she's in that camp.  I strongly urged her to "sit her fat ass home" in '20 if she just thought she "had" to vote for TFG because Biden was running. 

I also stood up from the family breakfast table in public years before and reached over to smack the **** out of my stepsister when she came this close to calling Barack the "N" word.  I stopped because she did, but that was a close one.  (My liberal bonafides were exposed and I'm very proud of them .) 

[China]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

The Trump strategy has long been delay delay delay. All of these different absurd legal strategies like the one we see today are all aimed towards this one goal.

 

so my question is this, will his various trials be complete before November or is his strategy working? 

 

This immunity issue will eventually be appealed to the USSC.  It will push the trial back from the March 4th date.   But, it will still start and finish before the November election.  

 

The documents case will also be pushed back, but it's difficult to say what Judge Cannon will do.  She may push the trial back far enough that Fani Willis asks the judge in Georgia to start that trial in the vacated spot.

[skinsmarydu]

7 minutes ago, China said:

 

This immunity issue will eventually be appealed to the USSC.  It will push the trial back from the March 4th date.   But, it will still start and finish before the November election.  

 

The documents case will also be pushed back, but it's difficult to say what Judge Cannon will do.  She may push the trial back far enough that Fani Willis asks the judge in Georgia to start that trial in the vacated spot.

Fani has the Young Thug trial going on too, and it's taking forevaaaa just to seat a jury. 

I definitely wanna get downtown and into the courthouse when it happens, tho...just to witness history. 

[LadySkinsFan]

I think these three justices are unanimous in rejecting Trump's appeal and the appeals court refuses en banc, Trump appeals to the supremes who refuse to take it because they know Biden or any other president could use it to destroy the Constitution which means they're out of work too. 

 

Back to district court in time for trial as scheduled. And all of the cases against Trump go forward, civil and criminal. 

[Die Hard]

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/trump-lawyer-assassination-of-enemies-covered-under-presidential-immunity-201649221631
 

We take you now to a view of the Oval Office window.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[EmirOfShmo]

Good read...

 

https://post.news/@/MuellerSheWrote/2aj1d2bGqyhduSmYaLIxE02f9CM

 

I just finished listening to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals arguments on Trump's immunity claim, and I have some top line takeaways.

The most standout moment for me was when the court pointed out that during Trump's impeachment trial, Trump's OWN LAWYERS argued that impeachment and conviction wasn't necessary because a president can be criminally prosecuted after he leaves office. The court thought that may have swayed some Senators to vote to acquit, because the check of criminal prosecution was always there. Trump's lawyer - Sauer - said he disagreed with the court's characterization of that argument. The court said "It's in the congressional record."

 

...and another

 

 

Edited January 10 by EmirOfShmo

[Larry]

Who would have thought that making ludicrous claims, intentionally phrased as statements of absolutes, would make it difficult to argue opposing disingenuous absolutes hard to argue?  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

I really like Crockett!

[Bang]

These call outs are nice, but to be effective the target has to have a sense of shame, an ability to self reflect.

And they don't.

 

~Bang

[purbeast]

I'm not sure where to put this so I'm putting it here because I thought it was hilarious.

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Taunting and insulting recovered drug addicts is always the most hilarious thing.

[Larry]

43 minutes ago, purbeast said:

 

 

 

 

"It ain't Trump's ass."  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 hours ago, Bang said:

These call outs are nice, but to be effective the target has to have a sense of shame, an ability to self reflect.

And they don't.

 

~Bang

 

 

You see Comer get all pissed off when he's called out in his committee? Or Jordan stumble around trying to get his committee back on track when he's been called out?

 

The call-outs are having an effect. Plus, the best effect it may be having is invigorating the Dem base, who get really ****ing tired of seeing GOP politicians seemingly skate by with ease and next to no pushback by anyone.

[Fergasun]

The Fani Willis stuff is wild.  I don't even know if it matters to a court.  EDIT: it seems like a crazy allegatiin...

Edited January 11 by Fergasun

[Bang]

11 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

You see Comer get all pissed off when he's called out in his committee? Or Jordan stumble around trying to get his committee back on track when he's been called out?

 

The call-outs are having an effect. Plus, the best effect it may be having is invigorating the Dem base, who get really ****ing tired of seeing GOP politicians seemingly skate by with ease and next to no pushback by anyone.

They aren't the ones that need to be convinced by this stuff.
It's the people who blindly support them that can't change no matter how much truth is thrown at their leaders and how much it makes them squirm.

Does Himmler look at all like the Teutonic Aryan elite he said MUST rule the earth? He looks much more like the "weak interbred mud-blood" he tried to eradicate while pushing a doctrine of racial superiority.
The people don't give a **** if the facts aren't on their side. They have an excuse to be themselves. Savage, brutish, ignorant and ultimately murderous.

Much like then, you can sit back and let the truth show itself right to their faces. They do not give a ****. Fluster Jordan all you want. Everyone with a brain knows these "proceedings" are just persecutorial timewasting bull****, including those who support it. They ****ing LOVE IT. 

 

Honestly, if any of these call outs wanted to have an effect, they should be given with a baseball bat. 

Don't get me wrong, they should keep doing it. But the people who need to change aren't getting the message.. both figuratively and literally. They'll never see it. Our hope is that in November there has not been enough bull**** (crooked or otherwise) involved to sway elections to their side. Because if it does, that guy above is making a comeback.

 

~Bang

Edited January 11 by Bang

[Califan007 The Constipated]

51 minutes ago, Bang said:

They aren't the ones that need to be convinced by this stuff.
It's the people who blindly support them that can't change no matter how much truth is thrown at their leaders and how much it makes them squirm.

Does Himmler look at all like the Teutonic Aryan elite he said MUST rule the earth? He looks much more like the "weak interbred mud-blood" he tried to eradicate while pushing a doctrine of racial superiority.
The people don't give a **** if the facts aren't on their side. They have an excuse to be themselves. Savage, brutish, ignorant and ultimately murderous.

Much like then, you can sit back and let the truth show itself right to their faces. They do not give a ****. Fluster Jordan all you want. Everyone with a brain knows these "proceedings" are just persecutorial timewasting bull****, including those who support it. They ****ing LOVE IT. 

 

Honestly, if any of these call outs wanted to have an effect, they should be given with a baseball bat. 

Don't get me wrong, they should keep doing it. But the people who need to change aren't getting the message.. both figuratively and literally. They'll never see it. Our hope is that in November there has not been enough bull**** (crooked or otherwise) involved to sway elections to their side. Because if it does, that guy above is making a comeback.

 

~Bang

 

 

So we need to convince the people who will never be convinced, no matter what?...That would be a waste of time.

 

We need to convince the ones who would vote for Trump even though they have doubts.

 

I'm kinda known for getting into lengthy online debates, believe it or not lol...(stop rolling your eyes, dammit). 10-15 years ago--possibly on this site--someone had a long debate with someone over something, can't remember what, with someone who was as thick-headed and stubborn as they come. After it was over the person was asked why they bothered wasting time arguing with someone like that...and the person said "I don't want anyone coming here and thinking we suffer fools lightly."

 

That hit for me...it explained one of the main reasons I would get into lengthy debates with certain people who you can just tell aren't reasonable and won't be swayed from their positions with logic or facts. So I started using that same explanation but with it tailored to my thinking. When I'd get into a debate/argument with someone online who's a lost cause, at some point I'd tell them:

 

"I'm not responding to you to convince you of anything, I already know you're too emotionally invested in your stance no matter how wrong and devoid of facts it may be. I'm responding to you like this so that if someone is stupid enough to actually read this idiotic back-and-forth we're having, they will at least read an intelligent, fact-based reason why your way of thinking is one billion percent wrong."

 

To me, that's incredibly important. I don't give one single flying **** if any of the MAGA loons start seeing the light, because I already know almost none of them will. But they and their representatives in Congress need to know they will get the ever-loving **** challenged out of them each and every time, and in ways that fire up Dem voters and provide food for thought for moderates and independents...and in ways they can't easily spin their way out of. That actually has an effect on the Republicans' game plan, even if it doesn't have much of an effect on MAGA voters. So yeah, I'm all for letting the country know Democrats don't suffer fools lightly.

 

Edited January 11 by Califan007 The Constipated

[TheGreatBuzz]

The best strategy isn't to try to change their minds. It's to demotivate them.