Convicted felon Donald Trump on Trial (Found guilty on 34 felony counts. 54 criminal count still in the air)

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Die Hard said:

Rhino!
 

Deep state!

 

Antifa false flag operation!

 

QAnon: "That's not even Mark Meadows. The real Mark Meadows was replaced by a body double 2 years ago."

[Corcaigh]

18 hours ago, tshile said:

We’ll never know for many of them but I do find it interesting to think about whether one truly believed there was a stolen election they were trying to fix, or that there was no harm in the charade they were pulling and didn’t even realize it was criminal, or whether they just flat out thought they’d get away with it so it doesn’t matter. 
 

I think it is all of the above. Trump has lied (and worse) all his life and got away with it.

 

But when apparently smart people do dumb things it’s often driven by cognitive dissonance. They moved in limited circles and consumed media that validated to them that Trump was hugely popular.

 

They were so certain of victory, like a cult that believes in the end of the world on a particular date, that they could not accept being wrong and grasped at voter fraud as the reason for the loss. Much like members of an end of times cult think the world will still end after a missed deadline but somehow the date was miscalculated or miss communicated.
 

Some of the smart people looked for evidence and not finding anything accepted it or as a minimum shut up about it. Some couldn’t accept it and took action that put them in legal jeopardy (both knowingly and some out of ignorance) because they believed they had a wrong to right.

A recent poll showed 70% of Republican still believe the election was stolen.

 

 

 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

So...has Meadows plead guilty to some lesser charges in the DC case for his cooperation? If so, seems like a deal must be pending in the GA case?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, EmirOfShmo said:

 

So...has Meadows plead guilty to some lesser charges in the DC case for his cooperation? If so, seems like a deal must be pending in the GA case?

 

I think he got immunity...

[PleaseBlitz]

Yea, sounds like he received immunity in order to testify.  Otherwise, we would have been able to (and would have) just pled the fifth on all questions.

 

That means that nothing from his testimony OR subsequent investigation that is in any way based on that testimony (the fruit of the poisonous tree) can be used against him, but conceivably he could still be charged with crimes that don't need evidence stemming from his testimony.  

 

Most likely, Meadows is desperately trying to save his own skin and the DOJ views him a somewhat of a lynchpin to their case against Trump, which is all consistent with my overall understanding of where we are. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I’d caution reading too much into these plea deals. It most likely does not mean anything beyond “we know person X now has community service, a fine, and won’t be going to prison” 

 

based on what we’ve seen the last several years, they never play out like the movies or like you’d expect. Usually it’s just a deal to save everyone time in a court room, get your “guilty” win and move on. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

19 hours ago, China said:

 

I initially read that as she'll end up on her back somewhere.  Prostituting herself in the more traditional way...

 

Well that's good because that's how it was intended.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I’d caution reading too much into these plea deals. It most likely does not mean anything beyond “we know person X now has community service, a fine, and won’t be going to prison” 

 

based on what we’ve seen the last several years, they never play out like the movies or like you’d expect. Usually it’s just a deal to save everyone time in a court room, get your “guilty” win and move on. 

 

You could be right, but at the same time all three of the people who have struck deals have been in some of the major closed-door meetings regarding the attempted overturning of the election. We all know that Trump does pretty much nothing electronically, so their testimony and/or corroboration of what went on in those meetings could be pretty important in proving the case against him.

[PleaseBlitz]

21 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I’d caution reading too much into these plea deals. It most likely does not mean anything beyond “we know person X now has community service, a fine, and won’t be going to prison” 

 

based on what we’ve seen the last several years, they never play out like the movies or like you’d expect. Usually it’s just a deal to save everyone time in a court room, get your “guilty” win and move on. 

 

I do not agree with this.  People aren't accepting plea deals and immunity to testify because they are innocent and didn't do anything wrong.  These are all people with the means to mount sophisticated legal defenses, they aren't just being railroaded because they don't really have the ability to fight back.  I still think all of the prosecutors have a high bar to meet to convict Trump, especially on the most serious charges, but securing the cooperation of multiple members of the underlying conspiracies is very important. 

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I do not agree with this.  People aren't accepting plea deals and immunity to testify because they are innocent and didn't do anything wrong.  These are all people with the means to mount sophisticated legal defenses, they aren't just being railroaded because they don't really have the ability to fight back.  I still think all of the prosecutors have a high bar to meet to convict Trump, especially on the most serious charges, but securing the cooperation of multiple members of the underlying conspiracies is very important. 

 

I also like to think that at some point Trump or his defense are going to try the old 'You don't know if he really thinks he won and was doing his duty as President!' thing and the point of having Meadows talk is that he can testify against that. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

16 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Trump, tomorrow: "I've never heard of or been around this 'Mark Meadows' person. I think he might have gotten me a diet Coke once or twice."

Never heard of em. Never heard. I heard he was an American. I’ve never even been to America before. Only the United States, Russia, Saudi Arabia and poor poor failing Scotland. Mark Meadows has been just as unfair to me as Covid. But, no, I’ve never been to America. 
 

The only meadows I know is what I ran through in 2016 on the way to the White House. We had our swimming trunks on, shirts off and the sun beat upon our beautiful beautiful bodies. You’ve never seen anything like it. Everyone was crying. They had tears in their eyes. They said “we’ve never seen a body quite like yours. You’re in top physical shape.” It really was a beatiful moment for everyone.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[mistertim]

Jesus H Christ in a convertible Yugo. How many times does he have to do it before you realize he's not going to stop unless you throw him in jail?

 

Trump escapes judge’s reprimand for now after apparent reference to clerk, which Trump's attorney denies

 

Quote

 

Judge Arthur Engoron suggested he could enact “severe sanctions” against Donald Trump after the former president appeared to make a reference to Engoron’s clerk in violation of the gag order banning discussion of the judge's staff.

 

During a break in the trial, Trump told reporters outside the courtroom, “This judge is a very partisan judge with a person who is very partisan sitting alongside him -- perhaps even much more partisan than he is."

 

When the court session resumed, Engoron said that Trump’s comments had been brought to his attention and said that he had put the gag order in place following Trump’s posting “defamatory, disparaging, completely untrue statements about the law clerk sitting to my right.”

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by mistertim

[Jumbo]

I share the fear of others that very little of real consequence will happen to any of the trump family in any of these legal matters or to the multiple elected gopers (and lawyer accomplices) in the election fraud cases.

 

I'm semi ok with what's happened to the dumbass maga traitor insurrectionists of Jan 6, penalty wise, but still think many of them are getting off too easy. But at least most are getting some.

 

I would like to do it more like The Punisher were I in charge of consequences, somewhat in contrast to decades spent helping all kinds of people without making judgements of them. 

 

But in my defense I only did that stuff for the notoriety and the money. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

23 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

I share the fear of others that very little of real consequence will happen to any of the trump family in any of these legal matters or to the multiple elected gopers (and lawyer accomplices) in the election fraud cases.

 

I'm semi ok with what's happened to the dumbass maga traitor insurrectionists of Jan 6, penalty wise, but still think many of them are getting off too easy. But at least most are getting some.

 

I would like to do it more like The Punisher were I in charge of consequences, somewhat in contrast to decades spent helping all kinds of people without making judgements of them. 

 

But in my defense I only did that stuff for the notoriety and the money. 

 

It's a clear-cut reality that Trump and his family and his organization are going to skate on through this thing and his fans will love him more than ever.  WITCH HUNT!!! etc.  He'll have to pay some penalties and fines (time for a rally!) and there won't be anything that'll get in the way of him running for office.  I think we'd all be shocked if he did any prison time. 

 

I'm sure everyone here knows some boomers that are going to vote for him no matter what.  It's weird, I'm pretty sure Christian conservatives would vote for Satan before a Democrat because...well, they've shown us that they've done it before and they're foaming at the mouth to do it again.

[Dan T.]

Judge Engoron puts Trump on the stand to question him about his comments outside the courtroom seemingly directed at his court clerk, finds his testimony "not credible," fines him $10,000.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

13 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I think we'd all be shocked if he did any prison time. 

 

I think he'll get prison time, or at least confined to some location like some other high profile jailbirds.

 

I am confident it will be nowhere near the recommend time frame for someone who has committed the crimes he has tho. 

[mistertim]

Oh joy. Another small fine. That will sure show Donald Trump who's boss and will definitely stop him from doing it again!

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Oh joy. Another small fine. That will sure show Donald Trump who's boss and will definitely stop him from doing it again!

 

 

 

For Trump, being forced to be on the stand and under oath--then basically have the judge say "Bull****" to whatever he said--is worse in his eyes than the fine.

[Llevron]

I get he is a child but his punishments should be much more severe than that. I mean really I do that with the toddler child thing that is taking over my house. 

[Bang]

A 10K fine.
We are WEAK. TOOTHLESS.

 

~Bang

[mistertim]

28 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

For Trump, being forced to be on the stand and under oath--then basically have the judge say "Bull****" to whatever he said--is worse in his eyes than the fine.

 

I dunno, I think Trump gets off on being able to do stuff without ever really having to face true repercussions for it. Which is basically what happened here when he was put on the stand today. He more or less spit in the judge's face and the judge just wagged his finger at him.

Edited October 25, 2023 by mistertim

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I dunno, I think Trump gets off on being able to do stuff without ever really having to face true repercussions for it. Which is basically what happened here when he was put on the stand today. He more or less spit in the judge's face and the judge just wagged his finger at him.

 

I see him more like Mike Lindell throwing a tantrum during his deposition lol...only he'll wait until he's either in front of cameras or in front of his computer to let it rip. Although to be fair, Trump did throw a hissy fit during his trial when one of the witnesses was saying something he didn't like.

[LadySkinsFan]

Those fines should have a M after the numbers instead of a K.

[PleaseBlitz]

I assume the judge is going to rapidly escalate the penalties for repeat offenses (which are sure to happen).  To continue with @Llevron's analogy, I think this is like when my toddler is misbehaving and I say "One."  

 

My toddler then knows if I get to "Three", he's going to his room for awhile (which is the end of the world), but at "One" he ignores me. 

 

This way, the Judge gets to look reasonable and restrained, but if it happens 2 more times and he sticks Trump in the cooler for a night, he can say, truthfully, that Trump was warned and knew what was going to happen. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by PleaseBlitz

[Llevron]

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I assume the judge is going to rapidly escalate the penalties for repeat offenses (which are sure to happen).  To continue with @Llevron's analogy, I think this is like when my toddler is misbehaving and I say "One."  

 

My toddler then knows if I get to "Three", he's going to his room for awhile (which is the end of the world), but at "One" he ignores me. 

 

This way, the Judge gets to look reasonable and restrained, but if it happens 2 more times and he sticks Trump in the cooler for a night, he can say, truthfully, that Trump was warned and knew what was going to happen. 

 

Ah! I have not gotten to count downs (or punishments at all, yet). No wonder the concept was over my head. 

 

Sage advice. The wee one will pay! 

 

 

Also apparently it did have an effect on his fragile little sense of self. He had a little fit right after. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Llevron