New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[NoVaSkins21]

Here's hoping this team can get Bieniemy now so we can get an offense sort of like this

[KDawg]

I don’t get why anyone wouldn’t want to snag Bienemy at this point. Yes, he could flop and show it was all Reid. Or… he could show he had a big part in it.

 

Bad news is if we get him and we’re good he’s gone next year. 

[Conn]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t get why anyone wouldn’t want to snag Bienemy at this point. Yes, he could flop and show it was all Reid. Or… he could show he had a big part in it.

 

Bad news is if we get him and we’re good he’s gone next year. 

Or he ends up the replacement HC, kind of depends how good he is and if that leads to wins. I guess you’re right that if the O is good, the team is likely good, so unless he retires why would you fire Rivera and hire Bienemy. 

 

Either way we can’t lose though, bc even if the O still stinks at least we end up with a higher draft pick and a new coaching staff anyways. 
 

Also not convinced he magically finally gets that HC job after a year without Reid. Yeah, the narrative right now is that having tried everything else, he needs to get out from under that shadow and produce. But in reality is just might not be in the cards for him. Will be interesting to watch and see if the goalposts move again. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Conn

[FootballZombie]

I'm still not convinced he leaves KC without a promotion to HC. Reid is just doing him a solid by letting him explore the oppo to be a HC without stepping on his toes. If that aint on the table, we could see another 1 yr deal to go back to KC, and be virtually guaranteed to get more HC interviews next year.

 

I'd prefer other candidates like Lynn anyway. I think they would be better fits for our current players.

[method man]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm still not convinced he leaves KC without a promotion to HC. Reid is just doing him a solid by letting him explore the oppo to be a HC without stepping on his toes. If that aint on the table, we could see another 1 yr deal to go back to KC, and be virtually guaranteed to get more HC interviews next year.

 

I'd prefer other candidates like Lynn anyway. I think they would be better fits for our current players.

Why would you want Lynn? He got fired in Detroit last year and that offense took a near 180 once Ben Johnson took over that year

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm still not convinced he leaves KC without a promotion to HC. Reid is just doing him a solid by letting him explore the oppo to be a HC without stepping on his toes. If that aint on the table, we could see another 1 yr deal to go back to KC, and be virtually guaranteed to get more HC interviews next year.

 

I'd prefer other candidates like Lynn anyway. I think they would be better fits for our current players.

Lynn is with SF as a coach. 

[FootballZombie]

Just now, method man said:

Why would you want Lynn? He got fired in Detroit last year and that offense took a near 180 once Ben Johnson took over that year

 

Lynn has done good things in SF and has a several year history as a HC, so he has some gravitas and respect as well.

 

More importantly tho I think a lot of the concepts on O that the 9ers run are transferable with our philosphy and available talent. We can be that running O that is still capable of getting the ball to our playmakers.

 

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Lynn is with SF as a coach. 

 

We interviewed him. Did he choose to stay w/ San Fran?

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Lynn has done good things in SF and has a several year history as a HC, so he has some gravitas and respect as well.

 

More importantly tho I think a lot of the concepts on O that the 9ers run are transferable with our philosphy and available talent. We can be that running O that is still capable of getting the ball to our playmakers.

 

 

We interviewed him. Did he choose to stay w/ San Fran?

RR is waiting to interview Bienemy and possibly another offensive coach with the Chiefs, I think. 

[redskinss]

35 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Bad news is if we get him and we’re good he’s gone next year. 

We'd get 2 3rd round picks. 

Win win really.

[WEARE1554]

10 minutes ago, RWJ said:

RR is waiting to interview Bienemy and possibly another offensive coach with the Chiefs, I think. 

Nagy?

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, WEARE1554 said:

Nagy?

Possibly.  Not a fan.  

[fearlessNelms]

Found it a little interesting that in the post game interviews on the FOX coverage and then on ESPN after I switched over that neither Mahomes or Kelce mentioned Bieniemy by name as a key to their offensive success. They both obviously mentioned Reid as guy who makes everything go and did mention "and all the other coaches", but no mention of Bieniemy's name alone.

 

The reason why I found this a bit curious is because while Mahomes and Kelce didn't single out Bieniemy's name, Andy Reid mentioned his name multiple times as a big reason the KC offense clicks. Reid obviously likes Bieniemy and is plugging big time for him to get a shot somewhere. But the fact that your two best offensive players didn't mention Bieniemy by name, while the HC did a bunch of times, makes me think that they know that Reid is undoubtedly the straw that stirs the drink and they don't think nearly as highly of Bieniemy as their HC does.

 

Not saying this is the case and it's just an observation and opinion on my part. 

 

   

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Found it a little interesting that in the post game interviews on the FOX coverage and then on ESPN after I switched over that neither Mahomes or Kelce mentioned Bieniemy by name as a key to their offensive success. They both obviously mentioned Reid as guy who makes everything go and did mention "and all the other coaches", but no mention of Bieniemy's name alone.

 

The reason why I found this a bit curious is because while Mahomes and Kelce didn't single out Bieniemy's name, Andy Reid mentioned his name multiple times as a big reason the KC offense clicks. Reid obviously likes Bieniemy and is plugging big time for him to get a shot somewhere. But the fact that your two best offensive players didn't mention Bieniemy by name, while the HC did a bunch of times, makes me think that they know that Reid is undoubtedly the straw that stirs the drink and they don't think nearly as highly of Bieniemy as their HC does.

 

Not saying this is the case and it's just an observation and opinion on my part. 

 

   

Reid is the guy who designed that offense. He is the head coach. He is one of the best HCs in history. For sake of time you can’t mention everyone who needs recognition. 

[fearlessNelms]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Reid is the guy who designed that offense. He is the head coach. He is one of the best HCs in history. For sake of time you can’t mention everyone who needs recognition. 

Heard. I just thought that the way Reid touted Bieniemy personally as a big deal to the offenses success, that your two best offensive players might do the same- at least one of the two. I found it a little interesting- nothing more, nothing less. But that's just me.

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Reid is the guy who designed that offense. He is the head coach. He is one of the best HCs in history. For sake of time you can’t mention everyone who needs recognition. 

 

I think there is definitley some wildcard to Bieniemy but I am on board if that's who it ends up.  Heck Reid mentioned him, I think it I recall it was the third name he uttered in his first interview post SB?

 

Seems like he's had a cotroversial past but that was long ago.  And pre Andy Reid his last offensive coordinator job went south at Colorado.  And he gives hard coaching according to some who have seen that up close ala Logan Paulsen and Adrian Peterson but they liked it.  I guess those who don't like hard coaching don't love it.  And multiple people have said he's not a good interview in these job settings for whatever that means.

 

But the positive roll of the dice here as Logan Paulsen explained well in one of his podxasts even if this isn't Reid's offense and not his, its impossible for him not to learn a ton by osmosis.  Because a large part of his job is to study defenses and game plan by using Reid's concepts to counter punch various defenses alignments-move. Also he believes watching this offense in practice, they can use a coach who gets on their butt an gives them some hard coaching for a change.

 

IMO in short, he probably learned a lot from Reid.  Arguably that's helped people like Doug Pederson among others. Matt Nagy would be the exception.   

Edited February 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think there is definitley some wildcard to Bieniemy but I am on board if that's who it ends up.  Heck Reid mentioned him, I think it I recall it was the third name he uttered in his first interview post SB?

 

Seems like he's had a cotroversial past but that was long ago.  And pre Andy Reid his last offensive coordinator job went south at Colorado.  And he gives hard coaching according to some who have seen that up close ala Logan Paulsen and Adrian Peterson but they liked it.  I guess those who don't like hard coaching don't love it.  And multiple people have said he's not a good interview in these job settings for whatever that means.

 

But the positive roll of the dice here as Logan Paulsen explained well in one of his podxasts even if this isn't Reid's offense and not his, its impossible for him not to learn a ton by osmosis.  Because a large part of his job is to study defenses and game plan by using Reid's concepts to counter punch various defenses alignments-move. Also he believs watching this offense in practice, they can use a coach who gets on their butt an gives them some hard coaching for a change.

 

IMO in short, he probably learned a lot from Reid.  Argubaly that's helped people like Doug Pederson among others. Matt Nagy would be the exception.   

Is Nagy the exception? Nagy is a good OC. 
 

Some guys aren’t built to be head guys… but I don’t think that makes him an exception. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Is Nagy the exception? Nagy is a good OC. 
 

Some guys aren’t built to be head guys… but I don’t think that makes him an exception. 

 

Nagy as a play caller has been roasted by plenty, if I recall including you.  I recall you when pushing Trubisky as an option, defending his Bear stint because he was limited by Nagy.  And it wasn't just you but plenty of others, including NFL observers said the same.

 

I really didn't care much for Trubisky but I'll give him some props for roasting Nagy some himself but strongly suggesting about how rigid he was and how the Bills play calling and coaching was better

Edited February 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Nagy as a play caller has been roasted by plenty, if I recall including you.  I recall you when pushing Trubisky as an option, defending his Bear stint because he was limited by Nagy.  And it wasn't just you but plenty of others, including NFL observers said the same.

 

I really didn't care much for Trubisky but I'll give him some props for roasting Nagy some himself but strongly suggesting about how rigid he was and how the Bills play calling and coaching was better

He was limited by Nagy as the head coach. 
 

Head coach has its own set of challenges. A good coordinator can look lost as a coordinator when they are a head coach because their responsibility virtually multiples by 5 or more.

 

Nagy was a disaster if a HC and I believe Trubisky is better than he showed as a Bear because of it. I haven’t backed off that point.

 

I think you’re underestimating what the difference in OC vs. HC is.

[DWinzit]

45 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Heard. I just thought that the way Reid touted Bieniemy personally as a big deal to the offenses success, that your two best offensive players might do the same- at least one of the two. I found it a little interesting- nothing more, nothing less. But that's just me.

I thought similar, Felt like AR was trying to sell Bieniemy....please someone take him 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He was limited by Nagy as the head coach. 
 

Head coach has its own set of challenges. A good coordinator can look lost as a coordinator when they are a head coach because their responsibility virtually multiples by 5 or more.

 

Nagy was a disaster if a HC and I believe Trubisky is better than he showed as a Bear because of it. I haven’t backed off that point.

 

I think you’re underestimating what the difference in OC vs. HC is.

 

I don't think I am underestimating.  I am obnoxiously level persistent of making the point on the FO thread that I am not sold on an X and O's coordinator translating to being a good head coach, I want more than just play calling chops.   

 

Your point seems to be a good play caller could go bad because of all their other responsibities.  I agree to an extent they can be worse because of all of their other responsibilities.  But Nagy has been roasted in a big way beyond he's just a little off his game.

 

In general, I am on the train that X's and O's isn't enough to be a good head coach, you also need to be a strong leader, be a good teacher, be a good communicator, be a good manager.  It requires other skills beyond just X's and O's.

 

However, good offensive coordinators usually remain good play callers as head coaches, heck even Norv Turner was a decent play caller still when his role changed IMO but a bad head coach in general.

 

It is possible to come off a good play calling coaching tree and be a bad play caller.  I am ok with Bieiniemy as the choice but heck yeah its possible he could suck.   Scott Turner grew up with a dude that some see as an NFL legend as a play caller.  Osmosis could kick in but it might not.

 

As far as Trubisky, looks like he's headed to his 4th team in three years.  Hate him as a starter fighting for a job, but wouln't hate him at all a backup.

 

And I am good with Bieinemy, but there IMO is some wildcard to it.   

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think I am underestimating.  I am obnoxiously level persistent of making the point on the FO thread that I am not sold on an X and O's coordinator translating to being a good head coach, I want more than just play calling chops.   

 

Your point seems to be a good play caller could go bad because of all their other responsibities.  I agree to an extent they can be worse because of all of their other responsibilities.  But Nagy has been roasted in a big way beyond he's just a little off his game.

 

In general, I am sort of on another train on the X's and O's point which is to he a good head coach, you also need to be a strong leader, be a good teacher, be a good communicator, be a good manager.  It requires other skills beyond just X's and O's.

 

However, good offensive coordinators usually remain good play callers as head coaches, heck even Norv Turner was a decent play caller IMO but a bad head coach.

 

It is possible to come off a good play calling coaching tree and be a bad play caller.  I am ok with Bieiniemy as the choice but heck yeah its possible he could suck.   Scott Turner grew up with a dude that some see as an NFL legend as a play caller.  Osmosis coild kick in but it might not.

 

As far as Trubisky, looks like he's headed to his 4th team in three years.  Hate him as a starter fighting for a job, but wouln't hate him at all a backup.

 

And I am good with Bieinemy, but there IMO is some wildcard to it.   

 

 

 

 

 Guys like Andy Reid make it look easy because he is one of the greats. Shanahan has such a good feel for the game. 

 

Nagy isn't them. Nagy has a good offensive mind, but he struggled balancing priorities and he isn't a great talent evaluator. 

 

I believe Nagy is a decent offensive coordinator. Not great. Decent.

 

Throw in HC responsibilities and balancing priorities and such and I think he drops to poor. He's not that guy. Doesn't have that balance in his mind and when he loses focus on the O he makes bad decisions. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 Guys like Andy Reid make it look easy because he is one of the greats. Shanahan has such a good feel for the game. 

 

Nagy isn't them. Nagy has a good offensive mind, but he struggled balancing priorities and he isn't a great talent evaluator. 

 

I believe Nagy is a decent offensive coordinator. Not great. Decent.

 

Throw in HC responsibilities and balancing priorities and such and I think he drops to poor. He's not that guy. Doesn't have that balance in his mind and when he loses focus on the O he makes bad decisions. 

 

There are some parallels between Bieinemy as Nagy in that they were working under Reid, most said Reid was the defacto mastermind of the KC offense and Reid would mostly call the plays but sometimes it would be Nagy or Bieniemy.

 

Nagy was roasted by plenty specifically to his play calling.    My dose of delving into Nagy at the time when there was discussion of Trubisky so I dived into Trubisky -- and my thesis was Trubisky is bad because he's a bad QB irrespective of Nagy.  I didn't study Nagy specifically.  But Nagy's playcalling has been a punchline and I recall a lot of ragging on him including by you when discussing Trubisky.

 

But I admit i don't know.  Maybe Nagy is a really good play caller?  I don't care enough to try to figure it out.  Just saying there are certainly plenty of people who don't think he's a good play caller.   But if this is about pushing the Reid coaching tree -- there is no ambiguity about Doug Pederson, he's clearly really good.    Shurmur, Brad Childress were mostly good.

 

But bringing this back. I am good with Bieniemy.  I am thinking someone else ends up hiring him even if we chase him.  lol, maybe his reputation of not being a good interview might help us here if it plays out that way.   And I don't mean that sarcastically.  I've heard enough from enough media sources, including Standig, that they've heard he's not that impressive in an interview.  If that applies here, he might get outpitched.  But it sounds like judging by what some beat guys think here, they want Bieinemy.  And right now I want whomever they want.

[Chris 44]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think there is definitley some wildcard to Bieniemy but I am on board if that's who it ends up.  Heck Reid mentioned him, I think it I recall it was the third name he uttered in his first interview post SB?

 

Seems like he's had a cotroversial past but that was long ago.  And pre Andy Reid his last offensive coordinator job went south at Colorado.  And he gives hard coaching according to some who have seen that up close ala Logan Paulsen and Adrian Peterson but they liked it.  I guess those who don't like hard coaching don't love it.  And multiple people have said he's not a good interview in these job settings for whatever that means.

 

But the positive roll of the dice here as Logan Paulsen explained well in one of his podxasts even if this isn't Reid's offense and not his, its impossible for him not to learn a ton by osmosis.  Because a large part of his job is to study defenses and game plan by using Reid's concepts to counter punch various defenses alignments-move. Also he believes watching this offense in practice, they can use a coach who gets on their butt an gives them some hard coaching for a change.

 

IMO in short, he probably learned a lot from Reid.  Arguably that's helped people like Doug Pederson among others. Matt Nagy would be the exception.   

Im still not sure what a lateral move to Washington does for EB. Organization in a flux due to the sale, cant guarantee more than the upcoming year and I cant imagine Ron has authorization to open up the check book. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

[Skinsinparadise]

I've said this before but digesting the narratives about Bieniemy, I don't get the impression at all that he and Mahomes are at odds.  They had a spat during a game, that happens and it was played down quickly after that happened.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

Im still not sure what a lateral move to Washington does for EB. Organization in a flux due to the sale, cant guarantee more than the upcoming year and I cant imagine Ron has authorization to open up the check book. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

I don't think he comes here.  I think Snider is spot on below.

 

Like I said, if he's a bad interview as some have said about him over the years that might have to be our hope -- goes for example to the Ravens and they aren't impressed or whatever.  I get the impression that he will have us at hello if-when he goes for the interview.

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Im still not sure what a lateral move to Washington does for EB. Organization in a flux due to the sale, cant guarantee more than the upcoming year and I cant imagine Ron has authorization to open up the check book. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Wherever he goes it won't be a lateral move because he will become the primary play caller.  But agree this place likely isn't ideal for him.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise