Next Day Thread: Washing Dallas (Is it Draft Time Yet?)

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Yes. Did the same thing with Griffin to both Shanny and Gruden. It's the boss's pet, make him better.

 

Did Shanny have same level of control as Rivera does now?  I know he had a lot, but Jay not even close.

 

The context here being not only did Snyder give him Rivera that power, it was only way to get Rivera here.

 

You and @Skinsinparadisereally believe that conversation about Haskins didn't come up before he signed the contract?  I'm more likely to believe Rivera thought he could save him then Snyder made him try, he cut him before the end of Rivera's first season as coach.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924772-ron-rivera-says-he-made-decision-to-cut-dwayne-haskins-daniel-snyder-supportive

 

Quote

According to Nicki Jhabvala of the Washington Post, Rivera said: "I made the decision. I informed the owner [Daniel Snyder] of my decision. He was supportive and it was just something I felt we had to do. It was something I felt was in the best interest of both parties."

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

The revisionist history on the 2020 draft is so dumb to me. It was Tua or bust. They werent comfortable with the hip. The trade down scenario is far more plausible to talk about. 

If you are not taking a QB with the 2nd pick and your team is not good you trade down and get a low #1 and a high 2 and build your O line. If we had done that we would not be in the mess we are in now. CY was overrated. If you watched film on him you would notice he has no moves other than a bull rush and it is without any other hand movement. He was successful in beating linemen from small schools. When he went up against a big ten school vet tackle he got stoned more times than he won. We also had invested in Sweat so why did we need another pass rusher. We had Haskins and I felt management wanted to give him a few years to see if he was any good so I could see us passing on a QB with the #2 pick so there is more reason to trade down. 

[veteranskinsfan]

6 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Today Washington needs to cut Tre Turner the guard who got benched after the first quarter yesterday and let Siddiq Charles go too.  With Charles its hard for them

to admit they made a drafting mistake.  He can run block but not pass block.  On most teams you have to know how to run block AND pass block.  After letting both

of them go then scan the waiver wires for replacements or move someone off our practice squad.  Both Carolina linemen are washed up.  Another huge front office

mistake.  

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree that things can still unfold for Wentz.  But if they have a top 5 pick in this draft I want a QB.  The Eagles are taking advantage of having a cheap QB to build their roster.

 

Wentz at 28 million at this given time doesn't look like a good bet but my mind is still open. 

Cannot judge Wentz with the poor play of the O line yet. He takes his life in his hands on every snap. I did think he would be better than he has shown but it is still early. Desired by every NFL team is a good LOW PAID QB.

[50yrSKINSfan]

59 minutes ago, sebestian said:

Trust me this will equal out.  Giants stink.  They are going nowhere fast.  On the other hand they will beat us twice, which is ok because I am hoping for Snyder gone, New Management, and the 1st overall at this point. 🤙

What are you saying, if we loose 2 to the Giants Snyder will quit?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Orakpo and Smith were both better football players than Sweat 

Not saying you are wrong but correct me if I am wrong but I think Orakpo never had a ask against a NFC east opponent, and PS had a rep of not getting any sacks period. 

[London Kev]

7 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

Didn't Nick Martin play on Sunday?

 

 

Yes, he was our starting center. He got called for a hold and whiffed on a few blocks, but so did all the O-line.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Not saying you are wrong but correct me if I am wrong but I think Orakpo never had a ask against a NFC east opponent, and PS had a rep of not getting any sacks period. 

Surprisingly Preston smith his whole career has gotten 8+ sacks every other year (even when here…..8 in 2015, 4.5 in 2016, 8 in 2017, then 4 in 2018)

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I respect Rivera so much, and do believe he cares this isn't working and how we feel about it as fans.

 

But it isn't working...its a results driven league and no matter how much he's trying he ain't gettin it done.

 

Authenticity has been sorely missing in this organization, its unfortunate that that alone doesn't lead to Ws...

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

You and @Skinsinparadisereally believe that conversation about Haskins didn't come up before he signed the contract?  I'm more likely to believe Rivera thought he could save him then Snyder made him try, he cut him before the end of Rivera's first season as coach.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924772-ron-rivera-says-he-made-decision-to-cut-dwayne-haskins-daniel-snyder-supportive

 

 

 

I was so harsh on Haskins before the draft and after we took him that i have some of the pro Haskins people still sore at me about it.

 

Yet, when Haskins played decently in his last two games his rookie season and changed the narrative about himself as far as his committment.  Even I saw it as an odd move to discard him after the rookie year -- heck there is a dude who hated Haskins (RIP) as a player but never bothered to read my diatribes of Haskins as a player who actually thinks I am lying that i was a Haskins critic and instead insists I was one of his fanboys.  For those who know my posting history on this, know that's utterly ridiculous but it brings home that context about Haskins before that 2020 draft.

 

The idea that Rivera could come in and discard the player that Dan told people was the best player in college football (according to a story by Keim) after he actally played well at the end of the season -- yeah feels wild to me.  10 out of 10 level wild. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

@Skinsinparadise what feels wilder is this idea that Rivera wouldn't come here unless he had total control but made an exception for the most important position in football and if it goes wrong could cost him his job.

 

That's the exact same trap Jay signed up for with Griffin without nearly as much power to make up for it.

 

I need more evidence Snyder stopped Rivera from moving on from Haskins when he hired him if you want me to believe that.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Renegade7

[justice98]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Skinsinparadise what feels wilder is this idea that Rivera wouldn't come here unless he had total control but made an exception for the most important position in football and if it goes wrong could cost him his job.

 

That's the exact same trap Jay signed up for with Griffin without nearly as much power to make up for it.

 

I need more evidence Snyder stopped Rivera from moving on from Haskins when he hired him if you want me to believe that.

 

I suspect it was less Snyder decree that Haskins be the guy, but more Rivera being willing to give him a shot in order to get the gig. Knowing Snyder wanted to see Haskins be the guy. And maybe Rivera thought Haskins had the talent to be worth it.  He's not exactly the greatest evaluator of QBs.

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I suspect it was less Snyder decree that Haskins be the guy, but more Rivera being willing to give him a shot in order to get the gig. Knowing Snyder wanted to see Haskins be the guy. And maybe Rivera thought Haskins had the talent to be worth it.  He's not exactly the greatest evaluator of QBs.

This is exactly my thought to. Giving Haskins a shot wasnt wrong. I think the bigger issue was not playing him the entire year 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

26 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Skinsinparadise what feels wilder is this idea that Rivera wouldn't come here unless he had total control but made an exception for the most important position in football and if it goes wrong could cost him his job.

 

That's the exact same trap Jay signed up for with Griffin without nearly as much power to make up for it.

 

I need more evidence Snyder stopped Rivera from moving on from Haskins when he hired him if you want me to believe that.

It’s asking a lot for anyone to give up on a first round QB after less than one full season under center.

[Warhead36]

This organization hasn't won five championships. The organization that won those championships no longer exists.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I suspect it was less Snyder decree that Haskins be the guy, but more Rivera being willing to give him a shot in order to get the gig. Knowing Snyder wanted to see Haskins be the guy. And maybe Rivera thought Haskins had the talent to be worth it.  He's not exactly the greatest evaluator of QBs.

 

Yea, I came see something like that.  By all accounts, Snyder came across that offseason like he needed Rivera far more then Rivera needed him, so I wouldn't go so far as to say Rivera sweet talked him into getting a job he didn't need.  But no doubt Rivera did genuinely want to give Haskins a chance to be the guy.

 

I keep bringing thing up because Gibbs did no such thing for Ramsey. I never heard any push back from Snyder on Gibbs looking at film and immediately wanting to replace him, not develop him, but get someone else.  Rivera shoulda done the same, @Skinsinparadisewas not the only one that daw bust written all over Haskins. I was one of those in denial until I abruptly wasn't anymore, not gonna front on that one.

 

In many ways, what the collective agrees or disagrees to, I don't want our front office swayed too hard by that.  Most of the collective isn't paid millions of dollars to get that right through their own research, Rivera is and scouting department he has control over does.

 

So when I hear "Most people thought it was Tua and that's it at QB", draft experts on sites and TV aren't paid to be anymore right then or face anymore consequences for being wrong then local TV Meteorologist. "It's gonna rain...well, looks like it didn't, oh well..."

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s asking a lot for anyone to give up on a first round QB after less than one full season under center.

 

Arizona might not be the best example, but I'd like to find anyone willing to say outloud they'd rather have Rosen the Murry right now.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Arizona might not be the best example, but I'd like to find anyone willing to say outloud they'd rather have Rosen the Murry right now

They are the lome example I can think of.  Had the coach not been Kingsbury and the player avail not been Murray, that probably doesn’t happen either.  The stars aligned for that one and to their credit they pulled the trigger.

 

In our scenario, had the Bengals went Chase - perhaps we go Burrow.  The concern with Tua was real, so even in hindsight I can give them a pass on that. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

This is exactly my thought to. Giving Haskins a shot wasnt wrong. I think the bigger issue was not playing him the entire year 

 

He was immature ass clown year 1 with Rivera, starting is earned, they even took his Captain patch from him that year...and his pants...

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Out of the 4 teams the Commanders have played so far, only the Eagles were an actual good team.

 

The Cowboys looked as pedestrian as it gets. Not "bad" just a team obviously in cruise control trying to not screw up until Dak gets back.

 

The Lions were made to look other-wordly against us, and they haven't won another game so far.

 

The Jags also look pedestrian and were a couple better Trevor Lawrence passes away from winning the opener.

 

This is another season of not only being amongst the mediocre teams, but one of the lower end mediocre teams (so far at least).

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Est.1974]

This is gonna take time. It’s a Process. My God is Rivera really trotting that out?

 

I have been kinda alright with Rivera and the FO Structure. Turner ok, JDR a dick. Happy enough with draft and the Wentz move, appalled with the rest of FA. Our roster always looked average to me.

 

Sadly it’s looking far worse than the above. We suck. And the new rebrand puts the final boot in. Long way back from here.

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

I keep bringing thing up because Gibbs did no such thing for Ramsey. I never heard any push back from Snyder on Gibbs looking at film and immediately wanting to replace him, not develop him, but get someone else.  Rivera shoulda done the same, @Skinsinparadisewas not the only one that daw bust written all over Haskins. I was one of those in denial until I abruptly wasn't anymore, not gonna front on that one.

 

 

Patrick Ramsey was drafted in 2002.  Gibbs was hired in 2005.  Apples to oranges.

 

The context at that time was Haskins at his best -- played decently in the last two games and the narrative was he was working hard after not doing so earlier. 

 

I wasn't a Haskins guy to say the least but to dump Haskins at THAT given time would have been weird.  And that's without factoring that Haskins was Dan's dude in a big way.  

[NoCalMike]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Patrick Ramsey was drafted in 2002.  Gibbs was hired in 2005.  Apples to oranges.

 

The context at that time was Haskins at his best -- played decently in the last two games and the narrative was he was working hard after not doing so earlier. 

 

I wasn't a Haskins guy to say the least but to dump Haskins at THAT given time would have been weird.  And that's without factoring that Haskins was Dan's dude in a big way.  

 

Yeah if memory serves me correct, Ramsey was sort of already a shell of a player by the time Gibbs 2.0 started. Spurrier ruined any chance for him. I also don't think Gibbs 2.0 came back to build anything, it was to maximize what was already here, make a run at it and ride off into the sunset.  Spurrier ruined any chance for him.  Haskins was raw potential to begin with, and was drafted way too high so he was behind the 8ball right away through no fault of his own and I think because he was still so new, Snyder wanted to take every measure to known for sure whether there was something there or not.  Sort of felt like a repeat of Gruden-RG3, except the big difference is RG3 actually had that magical rookie season that was still in recent enough of memory that the thought was maybe there was still something there with the right coach.

Edited October 3, 2022 by NoCalMike

[sebestian]

2 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

What are you saying, if we loose 2 to the Giants Snyder will quit?

 

I wish. 

 

No just my sequential order of what I wish will happen for the rest of the year. 

 

Personally I think the Giants stink, that 3-1 record is a fraud, however, they are still going to find a way to beat us, was what I was referring too.  

 

Your option is very acceptable as well. 💯💯