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Russian Invasion of Ukraine


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https://www.espn.com/soccer/ukraine-ukr/story/4678979/inside-kyiv-on-the-night-of-ukraines-improbable-world-cup-qualifier-win

 

"Win or lose, a soccer team putting on its colors for this game delivers a message to the Kremlin: If we don't exist, then why are we running together onto this pitch in Scotland? Why do our people cheer and wave banners?" 

Edited by ixcuincle
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14 hours ago, tshile said:

Hot chicks 

I dated a girl from Switzerland for 4 years.  Funny how many people asked if she was blonde... getting Switzerland and Sweden confused. The only hot chicks in Switzerland are the ones from Ticino canton, because they are Italian (my ex was from the German part, but she was quarter Italian with green eyes and long dark hair. When we rode the train together from Milan to Basel, the controller would start talking to her in Italian and me in Swiss-German...there was always a look of confusion when I started speaking Italian and she in German).

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Apparently "no limits" does have limits...as if anyone, even Russia had more reasons not to trust China...

 

Quote

Russian officials have raised increasingly frustrated requests for greater support during discussions with Beijing in recent weeks, calling on China to live up to its affirmation of a “no limits” partnership made weeks before the war in Ukraine began. But China’s leadership wants to expand assistance for Russia without running afoul of Western sanctions and has set limits on what it will do, according to Chinese and U.S. officials.
Moscow has on at least two occasions pressed Beijing to offer new forms of economic support — exchanges that one Chinese official described as “tense.” The officials familiar with the talks spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.


They declined to share specifics of Russia’s requests, but one official said it included maintaining “trade commitments” predating the Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine, and financial and technological support now sanctioned by the United States and other countries.


“China has made clear its position on the situation in Ukraine, and on the illegal sanctions against Russia,” said a person in Beijing with direct knowledge of the discussions. “We understand [Moscow’s] predicament. But we cannot ignore our own situation in this dialogue. China will always act in the best interest of the Chinese people.”

 

Beijing chafes at Moscow’s requests for support, Chinese officials say

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/06/02/china-support-russia-ukraine/

 

Continuing to read, it sounds like China expected this to be over by now.

 

Russia would be practically useless in a larger conflict with the US, if not a net negative because of constantly asking for help.  They can't even handle Ukarine, let alone hold their own against NATO.

 

They are close to realizing they aren't actually friends and probably won't be pretty soon at this rate.

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4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Continuing to read, it sounds like China expected this to be over by now.

That is quite likely what Putin told them that it wouldn't last long.

 

If only Ukrainians did what they were supposed to do, which is: flee and surrender to the mighty Russian army....

 

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

They are close to realizing they aren't actually friends and probably won't be pretty soon at this rate.

States have no friends, they only have interests. Russia should know that more than anybody as they don't give a crap about treaties they sign if they have a better interest breaking some of them.

 

They weren't able to crush Ukraine as expected, and western countries jumped on the occasion to lessen Russian's threat using the Ukrainian army. And up to now, it seems to be working as planned for western countries. It took them a few weeks before going all in, but now they're in and Russia's in a mess they never expected. Murphy's law at its finest.

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6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Apparently "no limits" does have limits...as if anyone, even Russia had more reasons not to trust China...

 

 

Beijing chafes at Moscow’s requests for support, Chinese officials say

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/06/02/china-support-russia-ukraine/

 

Continuing to read, it sounds like China expected this to be over by now.

 

Russia would be practically useless in a larger conflict with the US, if not a net negative because of constantly asking for help.  They can't even handle Ukarine, let alone hold their own against NATO.

 

They are close to realizing they aren't actually friends and probably won't be pretty soon at this rate.

 China wants Russia to be its puppet, not the other way around.

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6 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

States have no friends, they only have interests.

 

Idk, man, there's cynical, then there's this.

 

Aren't you in Canada or France?  You don't think either of those countries have any friends?

 

China is playing a long game version of trapping countries into a friendship they can't get out of, see what they are doing in Africa.  It was niave of Russia to think they were "special" in China's attempt to have the upper hand on everyone as part of their goal to be the top superpower over the US.

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3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Aren't you in Canada or France?  You don't think either of those countries have any friends?

France yeah.

Do I think we do have friends at this level?

 

Honestly nope.

Friends tends to go both ways, and it rarely does between states.

 

Am I expecting allies to turn on France quickly? Absolutely not. But I wouldn't trust any of them at whatever besides that.

See the submarines affair we had last year with the deal UK and Australia worked to break with France to profit USA.

 

You wouldn't expect friends to do it, but it still happened with 3 NATO members ****ing up another. Everyone had their reasons to do it, and being objective here, I can understand them all and I hardly blame the USA for rising to the occasion, it was more about BoJo being an asshole.

 

Would France have done it the other way around? Probably not. We would tell you we didn't because we want to be gentle, but it would mostly be because of fear of what could come right after that.

 

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

China is playing a long game version of trapping countries into a friendship they can't get out of, see what they are doing in Africa.  It was niave of Russia to think they were "special" in China's attempt to have the upper hand on everyone as part of their goal to be the top superpower over the US.

That's part of my idea of it. That's what China is doing.

 

To get back on topic and specifically Ukraine, China has signed a treaty with Ukraine about nuclear defense. Which means that if Ukraine is under nuclear attack, China would have to help. Looks like China wanted to befriended themselves with Ukraine right?

 

In case Putin does nukes Ukraine, what do you think China will do?

 

Best bet is nothing. At best they'll condemn it, but still stay far away from it.

Hardly what you would expect from a friend.

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https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-3

 

I just found this today, lots of detail about the current situation

 

Key Takeaways

  • Russian forces conducted unsuccessful assaults southeast and southwest of Izyum and west of Lyman but remain unlikely to secure major advances towards Slovyansk.
  • Russian forces made minor gains in the eastern part of Severodonetsk, but Ukrainian forces continues to launch localized counterattacks in Severodonetsk and its outskirts.
  • Russian forces did not attempt to launch assaults on Avdiivka.
  • Russian forces failed to regain lost positions in northeastern Kherson Oblast and continued to defend previously occupied positions.
  • Russian occupation authorities began issuing Russian passports in Kherson City and Melitopol, though they continue to face challenges establishing societal control over occupied territories and ending Ukrainian partisan actions.

DraftUkraineCoTJune3,2022.png

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On 6/3/2022 at 12:01 PM, Wildbunny said:

But I wouldn't trust any of them at whatever besides that.

See the submarines affair we had last year with the deal UK and Australia worked to break with France to profit USA.

 

You wouldn't expect friends to do it, but it still happened with 3 NATO members ****ing up another. Everyone had their reasons to do it, and being objective here, I can understand them all and I hardly blame the USA for rising to the occasion, it was more about BoJo being an asshole.

Um. My recollection is France ****ed up the budget extraordinary making a dated tech fleet of diesels so expensive they decided they’d rather have the nuclear ones

 

 

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11 hours ago, FrFan said:

Putting holes in their cheese 🤔

They don't dammit!

 

We do it. There's no holes in gruyere... They are in emmental, which is french.

7 hours ago, tshile said:

Um. My recollection is France ****ed up the budget extraordinary making a dated tech fleet of diesels so expensive they decided they’d rather have the nuclear ones

 

 

Yeah, true. But we do that kind of stuff due to incompetence, mostly :P

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7 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

They don't dammit!

 

We do it. There's no holes in gruyere... They are in emmental, which is french.

 

Wrong, Emmental is from Switzerland (Emmentaler) and Appenzell have holes

 

emmental-suisse.jpg

 

32279-1-appenzeller-extra-200-g-environ-

Edited by FrFan
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