The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

That's not about letting Ron off the hook -- its about not letting Dan off the hook like some want to do.

A key symptom of Snyderitis is when fans twist their brains into pretzels trying to isolate what is Dan’s fault from what is the coaches fault.

 

I’ve long been a believer that it stems from the belief that Dan is forever and coaches are not.  Nobody will admit that, as I think it’s more of a subconscious thing than something folks knowingly think about.

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

13 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

As it relates to the product on the field since 2020, I hold Rivera solely responsible.   Dan is responsible for hiring him, but most people liked the hire at the time.

Rivera is not failing because of Snyder or the clown show off the field.

 

IMO, The worst thing Dan has done was the name change and that happened in 2020 and I've said many times that he's a douche.  

 

 

And this is where you are short sighted. Rivera is the reason that we sign any FA. I’m not thrilled with the coaching job he’s been doing but let’s call it as it is: Rivera is the biggest reason we have shots at any semi large name FA. Why is that the case? Dan Snyder. Snyder, the culture he propagates, himself and his goons have made this franchise persona non-grata unless we overpay. And guess what? Because he isn’t ponying up we can’t overpay. 
 

So our talent is below the bell curve. 
 

If you think Snyder doesn’t play a role in the on field product you are very short sighted. It’s him. It’s always him.

 

Doesnt mean we are doing everything correctly otherwise but the chances we hit on anything with Snyder at the helm are slim. Infinitesimal, even.

[Est.1974]

Rivera effectively said last year that he wanted to build a sustainable model to move forward with (when discussing our healthy salary cap position). It seems clear that’s he’s been cautious in that respect, hoping to build primarily through the draft /or our younger drafted players he inherited. 
 

I’d guess he’s regretting that caution this past free agency period. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

A key symptom of Snyderitis is when fans twist their brains into pretzels trying to isolate what is Dan’s fault from what is the coaches fault.

 

I’ve long been a believer that it stems from the belief that Dan is forever and coaches are not.  Nobody will admit that, as I think it’s more of a subconscious thing than something folks knowingly think about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I've related it to some of my own experiences.  I have a series of new clients every year who are in effect my boss.  If I have a boss who gives me the resources I need and the support to do my best -- it brings out my best work.  When I don't -- it doesn't bring out my best work.  Simple as that.

 

EVERY coach here has to be graded on a curve IMO.   Some critics of said coaches warp that point and say do you blame everything on Dan when said coach does things that have nothing to do with Dan.  I get the point but IMO they miss the overriding point which is no one is at their best when they coach here.  None.  Even Joe Gibbs had a losing record when he was here.

 

And the common denominator isn't that Marty, Gibbs, Shanny are just not winners.    Heck even Norv did twice elsewhere what no coach has even done in Washington under Dan and that is win more than 10 games.   the common denominatior is Dan.  And no that doesn't mean everything is his fault and coaches don't make mistakes irrespective of Dan -- it means no one is at their best here.

 

Lets take the budget issue.  I am convinced Dan has effected FA at least in 2 key ways.  A.  Made it an undesirable destination.  B.  Limited what Ron could spend.

 

Yes Ron has to do his best within those paramaters.  And yes arguably he hasn't done well within those parameters.  But don't be mistaken that he has these parameters which he wouldn't have in other winning organizations.  Coaching is harder here than elsewhere.  

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Fan since a Fetus]

It’s always on Dan. He owns the team. He runs it like a nincompoop (don’t know how it’s spelled). When you cannot get your front office situated, then I highly highly doubt you are getting everything else in the organization running well. 
 

The president is a turd

The owners wife is a turd

Too much control was given to Ron who hasn’t proved much in the NFL besides being an all around good guy. Plus cancer, plus rebrand.

The rebrand has stunk 

The stadium crumbles

 

Everything Dan touches turns to turds. Look at his failed businesses. This team will not turn around until a real GM and President are hired and allowed to do their job. I also don’t believe a coach is not going to spend money on a player if their boss oks it. If Ron really is the reason we don’t spend money in free agency, then that goes back to the main turd giving Ron too much control. Ron should coach and that is it. He has way too many responsibilities and not good enough coordinators to run this toilet bowl

Edited October 8, 2022 by Fan since a Fetus

[FLSkinz83]

27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

A key symptom of Snyderitis is when fans twist their brains into pretzels trying to isolate what is Dan’s fault from what is the coaches fault.

 

I’ve long been a believer that it stems from the belief that Dan is forever and coaches are not.  Nobody will admit that, as I think it’s more of a subconscious thing than something folks knowingly think about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How should I treat this condition? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

How should I treat this condition? 

There is no treatment.  One day you will (should) wake up and just acknowledge what’s been staring you in the face for the past couple of decades.  
 

@Fan since a Fetus just gave a really good description of why it’s hard for many of us to invest in concern about the head coach and who’s going to be next or whatever else.

 

Every single hire Dan has made minus Zorn had a positive narrative to it.  Where the new guy isn’t like the last guy for x, y, z reasons.  It’s not long before the new guy starts feeling like the old guy.  New guy needs to be fired, almost as if all of the good things he did prior to coming here never happened and he’s a shell of himself after being here a few years.

 

The only common denominator is Dan Snyder.  You can try to isolate blame for x, y and z all you want but it’s long proven to be a futile endeavor.  It’s not as if his failures are isolated to this team either.  Practically everything he’s touched since he bought the team has turned to 💩.  It’s not simply bad luck or a myriad of coincidences that lead to the lackluster results of this franchise or any other of his ventures.  At some point, you simply have to be willing to accept that this owner is the disaster everyone says he is, and then some.  You have to either check out all the way or grade those in charge of this org on a curve.  To keep pretending that next time it will be different is a fool’s errand.  It will not be different.  Different characters, same old 💩.

[wit33]

Slight scapegoating taking place in these threads. I will not blame Snyder if Ron is unsuccessful here in Washington. The dudes been given full control of the organization—hired, signed and gotten rid of everyone and anyone of his choosing. 
 

If Ron doesn’t get the team to respectability and consistently competitive, then I was wrong about the hire. I won’t blame Snyder to save face. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Slight scapegoating taking place in these threads. I will not blame Snyder if Ron is unsuccessful here in Washington. The dudes been given full control of the organization—hired, signed and gotten rid of everyone and anyone of his choosing. 
 

If Ron doesn’t get the team to respectability and consistently competitive, then I was wrong about the hire. I won’t blame Snyder to save face. 

See? This is what we mean. No one is blaming Snyder to save face. We’re blaming Snyder because he is the problem. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

See? This is what we mean. No one is blaming Snyder to save face. We’re blaming Snyder because he is the problem. 

 

Yep.  Dan has made this team the Siberia of the NFL.  What are the perks playing here?  Worst facilities in the league.  Worst stadium -- literally with sewage seeping out of it. Worst owner.  History of losing.  Scandal after Scandal. Bleeding fans.  National punchline.  Irreleevant franchise that can't even get a Sunday Night prime time game. 

 

Whether Ron works out here or not, will see, if he does work out it would be the first coaching success under Dan.  But no doubt Dan makes it harder not easier for Ron to be successful. Ditto every coach who has been here.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggodrill44]

7 hours ago, Kurd Cudins said:

What are his expenses and debts relative to that revenue?

Good grief! 100 of millions in revenue..every year! You think any NFL team is cash poor?

Edited October 8, 2022 by Riggodrill44

[Riggodrill44]

6 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I said Dan was responsible for hiring him and I also said most people liked the hire.    I blame Snyder for Jim Zorn, not Jim Zorn..

 

I don't believe Dan being an asshat has had any effect on roster construction and the poor job done by Rivera's coaching staff. 

I can’t believe people could blame Zorn while working for Snyder but see Ron as being hampered working for the same guy.

 

Ron has total control over everything to do with the on field product.

 

Zorn couldn’t even order his own lunch.

[Riggodrill44]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Cool. And what’s the logical reason for that do you think? He moonlights as Snyder’s accountant? Just likes to lose and set himself up for failure for no reason? 
 

Clearly it’s an absurd idea. The main argument AGAINST handing a HC all the power rather than a GM is that they don’t think long-term, they spend now so they can keep their jobs. And your contention is that Rivera is doing the opposite for…some reason? 

Proof right in front of your face! 
 

Tell me great puba, why would Dan NOT SPEND? Worse organization in the NFL so to get better players to even consider us, he’s not paying at the top of the scale.

Or Ron wants to show he’s a different guy than Snyder, fiscally responsible, holding the line on how we spend now and in future years.

[max21]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

And this is where you are short sighted. Rivera is the reason that we sign any FA. I’m not thrilled with the coaching job he’s been doing but let’s call it as it is: Rivera is the biggest reason we have shots at any semi large name FA. Why is that the case? Dan Snyder. Snyder, the culture he propagates, himself and his goons have made this franchise persona non-grata unless we overpay. And guess what? Because he isn’t ponying up we can’t overpay. 
 

So our talent is below the bell curve. 
 

If you think Snyder doesn’t play a role in the on field product you are very short sighted. It’s him. It’s always him.

 

Doesnt mean we are doing everything correctly otherwise but the chances we hit on anything with Snyder at the helm are slim. Infinitesimal, even.

I feel like there is truth to this but also you’re giving Rivera too much credit. There’s a lot that factors into where a player signs, Collins signed here simply because we was a ST and Redskins fan and wanted to live out this dream of playing for Washington even with a Gruden team that was floundering without much promise. Tyreek said the other day the only reason he’s not a Jet is because of state taxes. I know you said we can’t overpay for obvious reasons but if you offer a player an outrageous contract they will sign. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, max21 said:

I feel like there is truth to this but also you’re giving Rivera too much credit. There’s a lot that factors into where a player signs, Collins signed here simply because we was a ST and Redskins fan and wanted to live out this dream of playing for Washington even with a Gruden team that was floundering without much promise. Tyreek said the other day the only reason he’s not a Jet is because of state taxes. I know you said we can’t overpay for obvious reasons but if you offer a player an outrageous contract they will sign. 

 

I'm not giving Rivera too much credit.

 

Look at the immaculate FA signings we've made. First there was... uhh... uhm... and then there was... David Obada!

 

His best FA acquisition may be Curtis Samuel and he missed his entire first season with us.

 

And again, Landon Collins signed here to live out his dream and now... he's no longer here.

 

I'm saying that Rivera is the reason we even get to have conversations with a lot of these guys, but it's not just Rivera that would allow that. Sean Payton would get those conversations and more. There's a bunch of coaches that could garner those conversations and even some with elite guys... but here's the issue: Most aren't delusional enough to come to DC and think they can turn this trainwreck around with Snyder in office.

 

I think we may be able to sucker someone... I mean... get someone... if we have the number one pick and some offensive guy is searching for a head coaching spot and they just need their guy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd add as bad as Dan has been, the scandal after scandal run is post Gruden.  We have now graduated from being a local punchline to being more of a national punchline.  It's worse now than in the past. 

 

There is even more wear on the tires of the decaying facilities and stadium.  Even more malaise with the fan base.  And even a longer sample size to indicate that Dan isn't changing. Even a longer sample that this is a losing franchise. 

 

I don't think a new shiny coach is going to change anything.  We had a large sample size to show that's the case. 

 

IMHO the only way this franchise can win is if they luck out on an elite QB.  Hopefully the scouting of the Qb for a change wouldn't be led by Dan.   I do think an elite QB may override the dysfunction.  I am not totally sure either.  And i know some here disagree and I don't blame them for disagreeing.  A franchise QB may fail.  But if's the only thing we haven't been able to do under Dan.  We've tried everything else.  Granted easier said then done to find that elite Qb.  But if some off chance we pull that off, that's the only maybe I think we got.

 

Some here seem jazzed of the next coaching narrative.  I am jealous because for me that was so 10 years ago. 

 

I had my moments of fun with new coaching hires.  Marty Ball.  Fun and Gun.  Gibbs back!  Zorn would fix JC.  Shanny is a genius.  Jay would fix RG3.   Rivera would change the culture.

 

The next narrative for me is yawn. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

51 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Proof right in front of your face! 
 

Tell me great puba, why would Dan NOT SPEND? Worse organization in the NFL so to get better players to even consider us, he’s not paying at the top of the scale.

Or Ron wants to show he’s a different guy than Snyder, fiscally responsible, holding the line on how we spend now and in future years.

…why? What interest does a coach have in that. Your argument makes no sense 

[Kurd Cudins]

1 hour ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Good grief! 100 of millions in revenue..every year! You think any NFL team is cash poor?

I asked a legitimate question. Moronic answers only validate my point. Please present the numbers.

[Riggodrill44]

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

…why? What interest does a coach have in that. Your argument makes no sense 

Your argument means we should not believe 23 years of data.

The only thing being done differently is Ron was given TOTAL CONTROL, but it’s Dan that’s stopping him from upgrading the roster.

2 minutes ago, Kurd Cudins said:

I asked a legitimate question. Moronic answers only validate my point. Please present the numbers.

It’s a legitimate response. Millions upon millions, year after year. 
 

You do realize that NFL teams are for profit, right.

[Riggodrill44]

30 minutes ago, Kurd Cudins said:

I asked a legitimate question. Moronic answers only validate my point. Please present the numbers.

Like you presented some numbers. How moronic.

I showed where the team in one year got paid 330 million dollars, absolutely just one revenue stream.

but he’s cheap/ broke??? 

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Like you presented some numbers. How moronic.

I showed where the team in one year got paid 330 million dollars, absolutely just one revenue stream.

but he’s cheap/ broke??? 

Keep in mind there are costs that go into running a team and it’s a very high number. 
 

In 2017 the Packers paid ~$420M to operate the team.

 

Some teams are more costly and some are less.

 

Now take into account an entire re-branding and several lawsuits and whatever behind the scenes payouts.

 

Now keep in mind that Snyder can still be asset rich and cash poor. What that means isn’t that he’s “poor” like I am. But he’s poor in the sense of an NFL owner. 
 

Why is that far fetched to people?

[Riggodrill44]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Keep in mind there are costs that go into running a team and it’s a very high number. 
 

In 2017 the Packers paid ~$420M to operate the team.

 

Some teams are more costly and some are less.

 

Now take into account an entire re-branding and several lawsuits and whatever behind the scenes payouts.

 

Now keep in mind that Snyder can still be asset rich and cash poor. What that means isn’t that he’s “poor” like I am. But he’s poor in the sense of an NFL owner. 
 

Why is that far fetched to people?

Because it’s ridiculous on its face.

He was rich when he bought them and he is richer now.

 

Nothing has slowed the revenue he receives yearly. 
 

Still we are talking about 30-40 million more dollars in cap space. It’s just makes us all dumber when y’all are arguing, he doesn’t have the money to upgrade the roster.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Because it’s ridiculous on its face.

He was rich when he bought them and he is richer now.

 

Nothing has slowed the revenue he receives yearly. 
 

Still we are talking about 30-40 million more dollars in cap space. It’s just makes us all dumber when y’all are arguing, he doesn’t have the money to upgrade the roster.

Yup. A guy who could be forced out or at least into a significant legal battle with the League at any point and saving cash for that fight doesn’t make sense. Clearly it’s US making YOU look dumb.

[Conn]

59 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Your argument means we should not believe 23 years of data.

You seem to have some sort of mental block because you’re walking right by the point over and over without seeing it. That’s what you’ve been told over and over in this thread. There’s 23 years of data showing that Snyder only ever spends big money on a couple marquee top-of-roster players and the HC, and that’s it. It’s how he’s always been. It’s been explained to you a dozen times in here. He’s always been cheap, and now it seems he’s getting cheaper. 
 

You have yet to post a single rational explanation as to why Rivera would himself choose not to spend money on his own roster. The way you tell it, Dan is begging Ron “please spend my money, I have no power to make you do it but PLEASE, you have every resource at your disposal” and Rivera’s answer is…”nah. We’re good. We have to be fiscally responsible sir”. 
 

What? 

[Riggodrill44]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yup. A guy who could be forced out or at least into a significant legal battle with the League at any point and saving cash for that fight doesn’t make sense. Clearly it’s US making YOU look dumb.

You haven’t proved a single thing. You’re speculating as much as me. 
 

Ron is in control, undisputed. He’s the one not improving the roster. Your conspiracy of why is just your delusion.

12 minutes ago, Conn said:

You seem to have some sort of mental block because you’re walking right by the point over and over without seeing it. That’s what you’ve been told over and over in this thread. There’s 23 years of data showing that Snyder only ever spends big money on a couple marquee top-of-roster players and the HC, and that’s it. It’s how he’s always been. It’s been explained to you a dozen times in here. He’s always been cheap, and now it seems he’s getting cheaper. 
 

You have yet to post a single rational explanation as to why Rivera would himself choose not to spend money on his own roster. The way you tell it, Dan is begging Ron “please spend my money, I have no power to make you do it but PLEASE, you have every resource at your disposal” and Rivera’s answer is…”nah. We’re good. We have to be fiscally responsible sir”. 
 

What? 

Good lord, do you not read anything but your 1000 word post?

Ron is anti Dan. He’s RESPONSIBLE, NOT IMPULSIVE, got it!