The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[Riggodrill44]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Having to buy out the minority stake using debt means that his cash flows are now a lot different than they were in 2020 because he now has to service the debt. It is basic math.

Here’s basic math, bought team with investors for 800million 20 plus years ago. Has collected millions from TV revenue. Team is valued at 4 billion, but doesn’t have 2 nickels to rub together 🤣🤣🤣

[Renegade7]

Collins to the Giants is going go sting, no way it's what he wanted contract wise, yet we had the need more then them and couldn't figure it out.

 

He'll be back to all-pro in no time.

 

Make it stop...

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Here’s basic math, bought team with investors for 800million 20 plus years ago. Has collected millions from TV revenue. Team is valued at 4 billion, but doesn’t have 2 nickels to rub together 🤣🤣🤣

To be fair, the value of the team is far different than what’s in his bank acct… much like what’s in my bank acct is a far cry from the value of my home, lol.

Of course, I don’t have much of a clue to how this all works - money in escrow to cover guarantees vs salary cap, when items are paid out, how the revenue sharing works, etc.

[Skinsinparadise]

The "lame" media line has been brought up by multiple reporters during the off season.

 

Yeah Dan who supposedly cut back on training camp in Richmond because it was expensive.  And people like Sheehan said he's cutting the budget on travel perks to the coaches and players this season.

 

Same dude who was sued by Bruce for backpay and the minority owners had to go after him for pay owed  -- with Dan complaining in legal documents that COVID effected his bottom line and didn't have his usual cash, etc.

 

Yep i am sure its all BS and Dan instead wants to spend like crazy and he's not on any budget and he can care less about cash flow because all of the other evidence just screams that's how he's rolling. 😀

 

3 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Here’s basic math, bought team with investors for 800million 20 plus years ago. Has collected millions from TV revenue. Team is valued at 4 billion, but doesn’t have 2 nickels to rub together 🤣🤣🤣

 

Having two nickels to rub together and being willing to spend millions on the team especially after shelling out a ton for Wentz are two different things.

 

It's not some off beat theory that Dan has become cheap especially in recent years.   Among a ton of other stories, Jay had Dan at hello when Jay in his interview for the job told him he wouldn't have to fire the defensive coaching staff -- so Dan didn't have to eat that money.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Wyvern]

This is a team always settling for the bargain bin folks to bring in, after they've made their 1 "splashy" acquisition  mainly brought in for marketing purposes.

 

The problem is that very few decent FAs are willing to come to Washington, unless the money is too much for them to turn down.  Maybe Rivera's reputation will lure a few exceptions, but its now at the point where he needs to change a lot of things to make Washington a desirable destination.  Fielding a playoff level roster would help too, because the chance to finish out your career as a champion is another lure for FA's.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

This is a team always settling for the bargain bin folks to bring in, after they've made their 1 "splashy" acquisition  mainly brought in for marketing purposes.

 

The problem is that very few decent FAs are willing to come to Washington, unless the money is too much for them to turn down.  Maybe Rivera's reputation will lure a few exceptions, but its now at the point where he needs to change a lot of things to make Washington a desirable destination.  Fielding a playoff level roster would help too, because the chance to finish out your career as a champion is another lure for FA's.

 

That's definetly part of it according to people like Keim and Standig

 

 

 

[Riggodrill44]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

To be fair, the value of the team is far different than what’s in his bank acct… much like what’s in my bank acct is a far cry from the value of my home, lol.

Of course, I don’t have much of a clue to how this all works - money in escrow to cover guarantees vs salary cap, when items are paid out, how the revenue sharing works, etc.

I wish I had a 4 billion dollar asset so I can be poor too…SMH

[Wyvern]

So after watching the 1st half of Russell Wilson in Denver vs the Colts tonight -- do you think signing him to that mega-contract would have helped Washington?  He's looked very ordinary and not all that accurate either.

 

And the Broncos defense is fairly decent!

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

So after watching the 1st half of Russell Wilson in Denver vs the Colts tonight -- do you think signing him to that mega-contract would have helped Washington?  He's looked very ordinary and not all that accurate either.

 

And the Broncos defense is fairly decent!

 

 

He's been "meh".  I wanted him so far I look wrong on that one.  But the season is still early. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

To be fair, the value of the team is far different than what’s in his bank acct… much like what’s in my bank acct is a far cry from the value of my home, lol.

Of course, I don’t have much of a clue to how this all works - money in escrow to cover guarantees vs salary cap, when items are paid out, how the revenue sharing works, etc.

 

Agree. 

 

And, I think some miss the point.  They put things in their terms.  Yeah Dan can buy whatever the heck he wants in ways we can only dream.   And if the discussion is purely about that -- then yeah of course Dan can do anything we can only dream of.  But that's not the point. 

 

The point is even billionaires can have limits.  Paying off a 500 million dollar loan or however big it was to buy out the minority partners, likely needing to get 1 billion or so ready to buy a stadium, park 40 million or whatever it was in an escrow for Terry's new contract, 28 million for Wentz -- yeah it adds up even to a billionaire.

 

Dan will fight over a million here and there throughout his history.  Heck he sued old ladies for thousands.  He's notoriously cheap on so many fronts -- heck Shanny had to talk to him years ago about getting proper food in the cafeteria.  On and on and on.

 

Whether he could spend it isn't even the operative point -- the point is would he spend it?   And when you got multiple reporters suggesting Ron had a budget that was met mostly by the Wentz trade, other examples of Dan cutting back on expenses and him being sued for backpay among other things -- it doesn't paint the picture that Dan throws millions around without hesitation on this club. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

I was totally wrong about Wilson.  I thought he'd be a great add but he looks average at best.  As Sherman said, they are paying you $45 mil, make something happen.

[Wyvern]

it was a fairly big Price tag --- QB Drew Lock, TE Noah Fant, DT Shelby Harris, two first-round picks, two second-round picks, and a fifth-round pick for Wilson and a 4 th round pick.

Plus there's his mega-contract of 245 million with 165 million guaranteed?  That's a crippling contract for what I've seen from Wilson current production.  And Matthew was trying to beat that offer!!

 

Year	Cap Hit
2022	$17 million
2023	$22 million
2024	$35.4 million
2025	$55.4 million
2026	$58.4 million
2027	$53.4 million
2028	$54.4 million

[FLSkinz83]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

I was totally wrong about Wilson.  I thought he'd be a great add but he looks average at best.  As Sherman said, they are paying you $45 mil, make something happen.

 

If Wilson has been average then Wentz has played like a HOF.  

[NFC Beast1987]

3 hours ago, Wyvern said:

it was a fairly big Price tag --- QB Drew Lock, TE Noah Fant, DT Shelby Harris, two first-round picks, two second-round picks, and a fifth-round pick for Wilson and a 4 th round pick.

Plus there's his mega-contract of 245 million with 165 million guaranteed?  That's a crippling contract for what I've seen from Wilson current production.  And Matthew was trying to beat that offer!!

 

Year	Cap Hit
2022	$17 million
2023	$22 million
2024	$35.4 million
2025	$55.4 million
2026	$58.4 million
2027	$53.4 million
2028	$54.4 million

Wow... right now that looks like an all time terrible contract... He has looked strait awful... He cost them the game tonight..

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, Wyvern said:

This is a team always settling for the bargain bin folks to bring in, after they've made their 1 "splashy" acquisition  mainly brought in for marketing purposes.

 

The problem is that very few decent FAs are willing to come to Washington, unless the money is too much for them to turn down.  Maybe Rivera's reputation will lure a few exceptions, but its now at the point where he needs to change a lot of things to make Washington a desirable destination.  Fielding a playoff level roster would help too, because the chance to finish out your career as a champion is another lure for FA's.

Well summed up. We simply aren’t an attractive destination and that’s the major stumbling block really.

6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

To be fair, the value of the team is far different than what’s in his bank acct… much like what’s in my bank acct is a far cry from the value of my home, lol.

Of course, I don’t have much of a clue to how this all works - money in escrow to cover guarantees vs salary cap, when items are paid out, how the revenue sharing works, etc.

Yep cash on hand is very different to net worth via assets.

 

In terms of numbers for 2022 show we are spending cash at a similar, in fact higher rate, to others. Not top end spend but significant enough. The money is there.

[Skinsinparadise]

Story came out is Seattle saw in practice and games Wilson was a shell of himself mobility wise

 

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

[Riggodrill44]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Well summed up. We simply aren’t an attractive destination and that’s the major stumbling block really.

Yep cash on hand is very different to net worth via assets.

 

In terms of numbers for 2022 show we are spending cash at a similar, in fact higher rate, to others. Not top end spend but significant enough. The money is there.

If Dan has some arbitrary budget that's one thing, being broke? He couldn't spend it all if he tried.......BILLIONS!

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Story came out is Seattle saw in practice and games Wilson was a shell of himself mobility wise

 

 

 

 

 

Same thing, thinking QB wins games. They surely can lose them but,teams win games. People need to stop believing that lie.

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

If Dan has some arbitrary budget that's one thing, being broke? He couldn't spend it all if he tried.......BILLIONS!

 

 

Who said he's broke?

 

I know somewhat set up a thread ridiculing the idea that Dan has a budget with this team by setting up a strawman argument about the topic translates to broke versus not broke.  The idea IMO was ridiculous but I gather that was part of the point of the strawman set up. 

 

The dude has billions.  Some say much of which are tied into assets but still billions.  But the idea that he's been cheap with his money has been well documented especially of late. 

 

Most agree that Dan has been cheap here, plenty of examples of it, some push back on that.  Neither side knows for sure.  My take is too many reporters I trust have offered the thought this off season and too many specific examples of Dan being cheap some of which was even documented in legal documents in court -- where the dude indeed cares about a million here and a million there. Heck you can argue the name change happened from Dan being cheap when he forgoed payments to the minority owners which instigated their wrath and things snowballed from there. 

 

Usually the house bet isn't on unflattering narratives about Dan being proven false and he ends up vindicated.  If we went to Vegas house money would be betting against Dan not with him.   Usually the press rumors and nuggets of information that lead to the same conclusion about Dan end up right, not wrong.  But once in a blue moon Dan is vindicated, I'll grant.

 

What's my best guess here?

 

Dan indeed gave Ron a budget before the season.  Ron met most of it on Wentz.    And he made his bed thereby and was stuck being cheap elsewhere.

 

I get the idea is people are frustrated and want their anger directed squarely at Ron.  On this front, I don't absolve Ron.  If he was given a budget, and Wentz consumed almost all of it, then he made his bed.  But it also sucks that we got an owner IMO who is bad in just about everyway possible -- at least when the dude was younger eons back, the dude was willing to spend, but pretty much for the last 10 plus years he's been cheap as heck. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Ron would be the first head coach I can think of that would willfully choose not to move money around and spend money to load up his roster.

 

That in combination with everything else Dan has going on, doesn’t make it hard for me to believe that Ron had to work within the confines of a budget.

My guess is it’s the unfortunate combo of working on a budget with constraints and Ron overestimating the talent he had at LB, and overvaluing Norwell and Turner, not realizing both are washed. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[FLSkinz83]

I'm almost certain that it was prior to to the Wentz trade that Rivera had an epiphany that Holcomb was a really good MLB and that we didn't need anyone.  

[goskins10]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ron would be the first head coach I can think of that would willfully choose not to move money around and spend money to load up his roster.

 

That in combination with everything else Dan has going on, doesn’t make it hard for me to believe that Ron had to work within the confines of a budget.

My guess is it’s the unfortunate combo of working on a budget with constraints and Ron overestimating the talent he had at LB, and overvaluing Norwell and Turner, not realizing both are washed. 

 

Did he truly overvalue or was he just hopeful they would work out sicne it was the best he could do? Turner signed a 1 yr $3M contract, and Norwell's is $10M over 2 yrs but only $4.7M gauanteed. Not exactly bank breaking. You have to know what youj are getting. I bleieve he was more hopeful than expectant. But it's jsut a guess. 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ron would be the first head coach I can think of that would willfully choose not to move money around and spend money to load up his roster.

 

That in combination with everything else Dan has going on, doesn’t make it hard for me to believe that Ron had to work within the confines of a budget.

My guess is it’s the unfortunate combo of working on a budget with constraints and Ron overestimating the talent he had at LB, and overvaluing Norwell and Turner, not realizing both are washed. 

 

Exactly.   I think its a combination.  If people want to rail against Ron OK.  But I don't think Dan is some innocent bystander in this mess. 

 

People want to rail against the coach centric model -- and one of the key themes for a coach centric model in a bad way is that they tend to overspend on the credit card not the opposite.  Carolina when Ron was there was notorious for overspending on the cap under Hurney and if anything getting into cap trouble.

 

Somehow we are supposedly to believe that Ron completely changed his stripes and better yet he is the dude reigning in the spending -- not the notorious cheap owner who is supposedly cutting back on things including training camp, meals on the road, etc and being sued for back. pay by employees and previously by the minority owners -- yet somehow I am supposed to believe the beat guys thoughts on this are wrong and Dan instread has generously opened his wallet and Ron said no thanks. 

 

Again, I do think Ron is culpable. But so is Dan is all likelihood.  If i am a kid and my parents give me $30 to spend at the store and I spent most of it on one piece of candy and that piece of candy sucks, then I miscalculated. The jury is still out on Wentz but its not off to a hot start.  But I do strongly suspect that the beat guys are correct about the budget, plenty of evidence plays into it.

 

And even if some want to persist that Dan has all the cash flow in the world and can buy the moon as for football players -- even if that is so, what is it about Dan in recent years in particular that give them the impression that Dan doesn't have a cheap streak and indeed cares about a few million here and a few million there.  

 

Heck I am dealing with a dude right now worth hundreds of millions right now on a project am doing, and the dude is cheap as heck.  Just because he has money does mean he spends it.  It's two different things. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Exactly.   I think its a combination.  If people want to rail against Ron OK.  But I don't think Dan is some innocent bystander in this mess. 

 

People want to rail against the coach centric model -- and one of the key themes for a coach centric model in a bad way is that they tend to overspend on the credit card not the opposite.  Carolina when Ron was there was notorious for overspending on the cap under Hurney and if anything getting into cap trouble.

 

Somehow we are supposedly to believe that Ron completely changed his stripes and better yet he is the dude reigning in the spending -- not the notorious cheap owner who is supposedly cutting back on things including training camp, meals on the road, etc and being sued for back. pay by employees and previously by the minority owners -- yet somehow I am supposed to believe the beat guys thoughts on this are wrong and Dan instread has generously opened his wallet and Ron said no thanks. 

 

Again, I do think Ron is culpable. But so is Dan is all likelihood.  If i am a kid and my parents give me $30 to spend at the store and I spent most of it on one piece of candy and that piece of candy sucks, then I miscalculated. The jury is still out on Wentz but its not off to a hot start.  But I do strongly suspect that the beat guys are correct about the budget, plenty of evidence plays into it.

 

And even if some want to persist that Dan has all the cash flow in the world and can buy the moon as for football players -- even if that is so, what is it about Dan in recent years in particular that give them the impression that Dan doesn't have a cheap streak and indeed cares about a few million here and a few million there.  

 

Heck I am dealing with a dude right now worth hundreds of millions right now on a project am doing, and the dude is cheap as heck.  Just because he has money does mean he spends it.  It's two different things. 

 

I have been firmly against the idea Dan has been working on a budget. I may be coming around as time goes on. But I still think it is more self imposed because he is a cheap POS than actual cash flow issues. He has never wanted to pay coahes salaries for coaches not in the building. And he has always wanted to make money off explayers coming to watch games. He tried to rip his nanny off for $40k (that was more tayna, the wicked witch of DC, but still). 

 

If it is true though that danny put ron on a budget then there is no way you can hold ron that accountable for this roster. Maybe he wanted to pay Scherff $17M but was not allowed to. The argument I do not buy is that there were CAP issues. Ron may throw that out as an excuse, and if Dan put him on a budget I could see that. 

 

Bottom line is this is not a very good team. And the buck stops at dan snyder. He can change coaches, yet again but I jsut do not see a change in outcome as long as dan owns the team. He will put his ****ed up hand on it somehow or another. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I have been firmly against the idea Dan has been working on a budget. I may be coming around as time goes on. But I still think it is more self imposed because he is a cheap POS than actual cash flow issues. He has never wanted to pay coahes salaries for coaches not in the building. And he has always wanted to make money off explayers coming to watch games. He tried to rip his nanny off for $40k (that was more tayna, the wicked witch of DC, but still). 

 

If it is true though that danny put ron on a budget then there is no way you can hold ron that accountable for this roster. Maybe he wanted to pay Scherff $17M but was not allowed to. The argument I do not buy is that there were CAP issues. Ron may throw that out as an excuse, and if Dan put him on a budget I could see that. 

 

Bottom line is this is not a very good team. And the buck stops at dan snyder. He can change coaches, yet again but I jsut do not see a change in outcome as long as dan owns the team. He will put his ****ed up hand on it somehow or another. 

 

Where Dan is cheap or has cash flow problems (cash flow in billionarie terms, paying off 500 million dollar loans, financing a 2 billion stadium coming up, etc -- not regular people terms) is not really my point in this context.  I strongly suspect its one thing or another but the result is the same which is a budget. 

 

The dude is cheap as heck.  A zillion examples of it. 

 

The reason why I put some of this not all of it on Ron is the narrative seems to be he had a budget to work with and used most of it up on Wentz.    so if that's where he is going to spend all his money or the majority of it -- he better be right.

 

But yeah for many reasons it would be great to get rid of Dan and his cheapness is one of a million reasons why. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise