Next Day Thread: No Effort Version - Dallas vs. WFT II

[CjSuAvE22]

We also got a pretty good beat down vs KC and a decent beat down vs Green Bay, our roster was healthy then....This team is flat under Rivera hes also had only 3 winning seasons out of 11 seasons im not expecting much to change through his 5 year contract.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, CjSuAvE22 said:

We also got a pretty good beat down vs KC and a decent beat down vs Green Bay, our roster was healthy then....This team is flat under Rivera hes also had only 3 winning seasons out of 11 seasons im not expecting much to change through his 5 year contract.

3 out of 11? Yikes. And I suppose this is with most of the same supporting cast he's brought from Carolina? 

[No Nonsense]

4 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

We also got a pretty good beat down vs KC and a decent beat down vs Green Bay, our roster was healthy then....This team is flat under Rivera hes also had only 3 winning seasons out of 11 seasons im not expecting much to change through his 5 year contract.

Ron has been a bad coach for awhile now. I have a feeling after next year, we’re going to be looking for a new coach. 

[CjSuAvE22]

24 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

3 out of 11? Yikes. And I suppose this is with most of the same supporting cast he's brought from Carolina? 

yes, twice he got into the playoffs with losing records last year included...

[hail2skins]

58 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

We also got a pretty good beat down vs KC and a decent beat down vs Green Bay, our roster was healthy then....This team is flat under Rivera hes also had only 3 winning seasons out of 11 seasons im not expecting much to change through his 5 year contract.

The score of the GB game was a bit deceptive. We shot ourselves in the foot big time in the red zone multiple times in that game, including when Heinicke didn't dive into the end zone and then got stuffed the next play on the sneak.

 

The way I looked at Rivera's tenure in Carolina was that, once Newton got up to speed, Ron did have three damn good seasons which were sandwiched in between several mediocre ones.  The problem here has been that the mediocre seasons have been the high points sandwiched between the 4-12/5-11 craptaculars. Getting a few 11-12 win seasons under Ron would at least be progress, even if they are not consecutive and not the consistency that was seen in the NEs and GBs of the world.

[justice98]

39 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

yes, twice he got into the playoffs with losing records last year included...

 

And this is the guy that we got to turn us into a winner.

[NeverSurrender]

4 hours ago, OMacAttack said:

The refs should be added to no effort. Early drive when the Dalass center was way down field on a pass and not called. There were holds literally every play.  I get it they called it the same both ways but it was ugly.  Oh yeah and the penalty on McCain but nothing when Dalass leads with the helmet on our quarterback.

 

I'm not saying it was all on the refs but they did not try to enforce anything in this game. 

I saw that play where the center was down field.  Mayo was jumping up and down pointing at him and still no call.  Unbelieveably bad reffing last night but we would have lost just as bad regardless. 

[OMacAttack]

14 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

I saw that play where the center was down field.  Mayo was jumping up and down pointing at him and still no call.  Unbelieveably bad reffing last night but we would have lost just as bad regardless. 

I agree it wouldn't have changed the outcome just the fact that officiating crew decided oh well we can't be bothered to do our jobs today is troubling.

[dyst]

7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I've had LBer envy of the Cowboys for 20 years.

It’s okay we have Jamin Davis and Cole Holcomb. One day they will fulfill their potential (I think their potential is near capped).

[DWinzit]

10 minutes ago, dyst said:

It’s okay we have Jamin Davis and Cole Holcomb. One day they will fulfill their potential (I think their potential is near capped).

Holcomb is near capped based on experience, athleticism and instinct. Davis is still learning due to lack of experience and with that comes some instinct. His athleticism is extreme!

[KDawg]

Did anyone watch that clip with the “coach” above? So, for those of you saying it’s not effort, what part of Allen and Payne’s light jog and the ass slap from  Curl screams effort?

 

And that was just one play. 
 

I love Curl, Allen and Payne. It’s not often I’d dog any of the three of them. But those are STARTERS and STARS.
 

Our effort was sad last night. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

Rivera was 76-63 in Carolina, twice coach of the year, 4 playoff appearances in 9 years.  3 seasons with 11 or over wins.  Something we haven't done in 30 years.   SB appearance.

 

He inherited a bad team in Carolina.  2-14.  The first two season were slightly under 500.  Similar to here ironically.  Clearly the FO didn't panic about it and understood he inherited a bad team.  Season #3 they went 12-4.  

 

Yeah Rivera isn't Belichick.  He's not elite.  But he's been a good coach.  

 

I can't think of a coach we've had where I've seen such swings of emotions so early from hero to villain from some fans. 

 

2020 starts slow, to some at that time he doesn't have it, then they got hot to finish the season, and most talked about how he's a culture changer.  2021, slow start, the dude isn't the right guy.  we win 4 in a row, he's the hero again.  we get pummeled with COVID and now he's just not the guy.  I've been on this board for a long time.  I'll say the journey that Rivera has had with some fans is the most schizophrenic of any of the other roads we've had with other coaches that I can remember.   I get it to an extent we are a beaten down fan base.  We've endured a lot of pain.

 

This is a dude who I follow on twitter some, I don't always agree with him, he's actually a critic of Rivera.  Even if i didn't want Rivera (and I do want him) I'd want to give him some time to sort things out. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Did anyone watch that clip with the “coach” above? So, for those of you saying it’s not effort, what part of Allen and Payne’s light jog and the ass slap from  Curl screams effort?

 

And that was just one play. 
 

I love Curl, Allen and Payne. It’s not often I’d dog any of the three of them. But those are STARTERS and STARS.
 

Our effort was sad last night. 

Fair enough, after absorbing some clips from later in the game - I do see where guys you wouldn't expect to be lacking effort appear to be lacking effort.  I'll say that when it started, it definitely didn't seem that way.  I'm not excusing it at any time during the game, it just appears it's something that started taking place well after their asses were handed to them.

[Monkman56]

10 hours ago, London Kev said:

For what it's worth, I watched to the bitter end. I don't know why because it just made me miserable.

 

It was obvious that we were totally out-matched and out-played in almost every aspect of the game, although I don't think this can be blamed entirely on lack of effort, although this did play a part in the later stages.

 

Blaming losses on injuries is often scoffed at, but with the amount of starters who were out, they have to at least be acknowledged. Covid only compounded the lack of available players which resulted in a perfect (****) storm.

 

I don't think that Bates or McLaurin deserve frowns, but I wouldn't really argue the point.

 

There has to be some fallout from the Payne/Allen incident. I honestly don't know what Payne was thinking when he poked Allen on the forehead like that, it showed a great deal of disrespect and I think many people would have reacted the same way Allen did. It was just lucky that Allen missed his punch because it could have been a lot more serious.

 

The coaches have to shoulder some of the blame because it's their job to build the roster, install the schemes and design the plays. I would give Rivera at least another year, I'm on the fence regarding Turner, but I would sack Del Rio immediately. I think he is a bad coach and in way over his head.

 

TL/DR: **** game, **** result, **** dallas.

We were out matched, out played in every aspect. We were also **** on by the officials. That didn't help either.

[Monkman56]

10 hours ago, fearlessNelms said:

Complete debacle- not much to say about the game other than it obviously ranks as one of the worst performances I can remember as a fan, which covers 49 years.

 

As bad as we were, the two most concerning things to me coming out of the game are: How we're going to solve the problem of Prescott's dominance over us and if last night was the beginning of Rivera losing the team.

 

Prescott is now 9-1 against us and it's starting to feel like Brady's dominance over Buffalo and Rodgers' dominance over Chicago. I fully get that Prescott hasn't accomplished anything compared to Brady and Rodgers, but my point is that dominance like Prescott has had against us is hard to flip and it will be very difficult for us to win the division in the years to come as long as he has our number and owns us how he has. Obviously, last year doesn't count, as Prescott was injured and didn't play in either game against us when we swept Dallas and won the division.  

 

As for Rivera, I think he is a respected guy around the league, but my concern when we hired him was that he often looked like he was in a fog on the sideline in Carolina and I'm seeing that more and more with us. I would've liked to see him go over there and take control of the Allen/Payne situation instead of acting like he didn't know anything was going on. There were also consecutive plays where Smith-Williams and then Toohill on the very next play were running onto the field as Dallas was snapping the ball- Back to Back plays this happened!!

 

Injuries/Covid aside, that was an inexcusable performance that- right or wrong- falls more on the coaching staff than it does the players. Uninspired, undisciplined and unprepared play in a must win game against your biggest rival is a coaching issue- in my opinion.

 

Forget the playoffs, I just want to see how the team reacts in these final two games, because if they're flat and uninspired I'm going to go into the offseason down on Rivera as our coach.

Ron was very perturbed during his post game interview. I would expect a better showing the last 2 games. But who cares really? Why should it take that to motivate this team? I do think Del Rios schemes are antiquated and most good coaches can look back to see what he's done in the past. But it certainly is the entire team. No one unit covers the other one very well.

 

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Monkman56 said:

Ron was very perturbed during his post game interview. I would expect a better showing the last 2 games. But who cares really? Why should it take that to motivate this team? I do think Del Rios schemes are antiquated and most good coaches can look back to see what he's done in the past. But it certainly is the entire team. No one unit covers the other one very well.

 

I'm not sure Del Rio's schemes are much different than most DCs in today's NFL. You gotta have talent to win. I do think he overestimated the quality of our DL early on but to be fair EVERYONE thought they'd be a lot better than they were. The only thing I really fault him for is not playing Landon Collins at LB right away, we all knew that was his best spot, but that might be more of a Rivera call.

[hail2skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rivera was 76-63 in Carolina, twice coach of the year, 4 playoff appearances in 9 years.  3 seasons with 11 or over wins.  Something we haven't done in 30 years.   SB appearance.

 

He inherited a bad team in Carolina.  2-14.  The first two season were slightly under 500.  Similar to here ironically.  Clearly the FO didn't panic about it and understood he inherited a bad team.  Season #3 they went 12-4.  

 

Yeah Rivera isn't Belichick.  He's not elite.  But he's been a good coach.  

 

I can't think of a coach we've had where I've seen such swings of emotions so early from hero to villain from some fans. 

 

2020 starts slow, to some at that time he doesn't have it, then they got hot to finish the season, and most talked about how he's a culture changer.  2021, slow start, the dude isn't the right guy.  we win 4 in a row, he's the hero again.  we get pummeled with COVID and now he's just not the guy.  I've been on this board for a long time.  I'll say the journey that Rivera has had with some fans is the most schizophrenic of any of the other roads we've had with other coaches that I can remember.   I get it to an extent we are a beaten down fan base.  We've endured a lot of pain.

I think making the comparison with Rivera's time in Carolina probably revolves heavily around the QB position.  The Carolina fans had just had a good stretch with John Fox before he wore out his welcome and were likely willing to accept the growing pains for a few season as Ca, the number one number one bonus baby, progressed.

 

I don't think you have that psychology here. The 30 years of complete BS is one thing, but then you have a situation where there doesn't appear to be a clear plan at QB moving forward. In a sense, it sort of feels like the first two years of Mike Shanahan here. Enduring the first season with a washed-up McNabb, and then god knows what we were doing with Rex Grossman and John Beck.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

I think making the comparison with Rivera's time in Carolina probably revolves heavily around the QB position.  The Carolina fans had just had a good stretch with John Fox before he wore out his welcome and were likely willing to accept the growing pains for a few season as Ca, the number one number one bonus baby, progressed.

 

I don't think you have that psychology here. The 30 years of complete BS is one thing, but then you have a situation where there doesn't appear to be a clear plan at QB moving forward. In a sense, it sort of feels like the first two years of Mike Shanahan here. Enduring the first season with a washed-up McNabb, and then god knows what we were doing with Rex Grossman and John Beck.

 

 

They swung and missed at Stafford.  They were unfortunately picking 19th.  The QBs didn't fall to them.  I agree it feels similar to Shanny but i see that as a positive not a negative.  the cards didn't fall Shanny's way in the first two years at QB.  He decided to be uber aggressive to solve the issue in 2012 and went at it aggressively.

 

I doubt Rivera and the FO don't have a clear game plan to go at the positon.  He told the junkies he speaks to the scouts every week about the QBs in this draft.  He's not going to tell us their targets and their game plans to get said targets.   We will know when its done, not in advance of it. 

 

Rivera today...

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Leonard Washington]

I’m remaining patient. I’m over the expectation of guys immediately joining the team and being elite. We had some solid wins this year and hope we can be much better in a couple of years. 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Leonard Washington said:

I’m remaining patient. I’m over the expectation of guys immediately joining the team and being elite. We had some solid wins this year and hope we can be much better in a couple of years. 

 

This is where I am at right now. Ron has yet to pick his own QB in the draft for this team. Will see how that works out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

This tweet cracked me up but yeah i agree with it.  For all those ready to move on from Ron, who do we expect to be interested in this job?

 

Considering Dan's nefarious reputation, the dump of a stadium, dump of facilities, a slew of bad PR for bad culture including sexual harassment and off the charts level of pettiness -- then you pile on Marty, Gibbs, Shanny, Rivera -- if all of them leave here with under a 500 record, what coach will be clamoring to coach here?

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I'm of the opinion that no coach should be evaluated until they get a shot with their QB. The exception was Zorn because he was obviously so in over his head it wouldn't have mattered if he had prime Peyton Manning he wasn't winning.

[Gallen5862]

I watched the Game til the End. Washington should use the next couple weeks to sign players off other teams Practice Squads. Scan the Waiver Wire etc to improvethe Roster.I would Keep Gilbert active. He has to be on the Roster next week since signed off another Teams Practice Squad. I wonder if Washington tries to bring back Fitz as a Vet Placeholder QB if he can't get someone elsein a trade or free agency. Washington needs to get a Franchise QB this off seaso. They also need more OL help. I would try to re sign Bobby Mccain. 

 

 

[DWinzit]

45 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm of the opinion that no coach should be evaluated until they get a shot with their QB. The exception was Zorn because he was obviously so in over his head it wouldn't have mattered if he had prime Peyton Manning he wasn't winning.

Agreed on all counts

Ron has had 2 years to come up with answers so far whether FA, trade or draft

While not top picks, Ron has brought in Allen, TH, Fitz, Gilbert, Shurmur, Montez....and made decisions not to take Hebert or Tua in 2020 or move up for Fields or Jones in 2021

Lots of swing and misses so the next shot will be his last.

Maybe going a FA tpe like Trubisky and a first or second round QB is the way to go...2 shots at success.