Running on the Rollercoaster: Antonio Gibson and the Rushers

[ThomasRoane]

8 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I was just watching the replay of Gibson's fumble.

And Milne is walking around the pile, and can't take his eyes off Gibson. Looks like Milne is like, "I feel ya, bro"

 

 

He's got to get used to keeping that ball tight to his body.  He was really looking good on that drive too.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

He's got to get used to keeping that ball tight to his body.  He was really looking good on that drive too.  

 

 

Maybe Gibson fumbles it, because the ball gets too slippery from being in the hands of the ever-elusive Heinicke, who is slipping and sliding out of tacklers all the time.

[Tarpon75]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

I am happy to see people are realizing Gibson isnt a bellcow. I was a fan of his coming out and still am. But the key to his success is keeping him fresh. He can run with good power downhill when he’s fresh, especially in situations towards the end of the game. But he wears out very quickly. He is a 10 touch a game kind of guy. When he’s on fire he can go more. When he’s struggling go less. Keep some tread on his tires and watch the difference.

 

 

I don’t know,I have never seen him have  the appearance of being fatigued or worn down.I have seen him hobbled  by injury and not be effective.How many times has he even carried the ball 20 times in a game to know what he is capable of ? I think that if  healthy he could be the type of runner they get stronger as the game goes on. I feel like as he matures and grows in the running back position he could well be a 20 carry per game back. The big questions in my mind are can he stay healthy and can he improve his ball security.

[kingdaddy]

Good topic. For me, Gibson is very much still learning the position, all the details...etc. Hopefully he's watching a lot of film and being coached up cause his talent is there. I love how physical he ran yesterday but I worry if he can hold up. Growing pains with Gibby but I think he'll be fine.

[Burgold]

Interesting, Rivera feels part of the reason Gibson didn't stay in bounds was because he got horse collared. Honestly, I didn't notice it, but if true... Refs!

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Interesting, Rivera feels part of the reason Gibson didn't stay in bounds was because he got horse collared. Honestly, I didn't notice it, but if true... Refs!

If he got horse collared he'd have fallen backwards, not forward towards the sideline. He was obviously trying to break the edge and get the 1st but wasn't fast enough. He should have just immediately fallen down once someone touched him.

[ThePackisback]

Congratulations on your win last Sunday!

[KDawg]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:10 PM, Tarpon75 said:

I don’t know,I have never seen him have  the appearance of being fatigued or worn down.I have seen him hobbled  by injury and not be effective.How many times has he even carried the ball 20 times in a game to know what he is capable of ? I think that if  healthy he could be the type of runner they get stronger as the game goes on. I feel like as he matures and grows in the running back position he could well be a 20 carry per game back. The big questions in my mind are can he stay healthy and can he improve his ball security.

Wearing down doesn’t just mean his gas. It’s also consistent injury patterns. So yes, you have seen him wearing down.

 

Its also fumbling in big moments. It’s also not thinking clearly and running out of bounds in big moments. 
 

Yes, the last two can be other factors as well. But they also happen when a person is tired and beat up and they aren’t lucid in thought.

[Koolblue13]

Broncos, Browns, Cowboys, Saints, Colts, Texans etc all have a 2 headed monster run game. Keep them fresh and go with the hot hand.

 

McKissic is a great 3rd down back, but I think a lot of his success is because teams need to play him as a receiver first.

 

We need 2 pounders to really capitalize on this awesome oline. Then we can really just pound it down peoples throats.

[Malapropismic Depository]

At the Antonio Gibson household, AG is not allowed to handle any platters of food, when they pass them around the table at Thanksgiving.

[ThomasRoane]

44 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

At the Antonio Gibson household, AG is not allowed to handle any platters of food, when they pass them around the table at Thanksgiving.

 

Nor hold babies!

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Broncos, Browns, Cowboys, Saints, Colts, Texans etc all have a 2 headed monster run game. Keep them fresh and go with the hot hand.

 

McKissic is a great 3rd down back, but I think a lot of his success is because teams need to play him as a receiver first.

 

We need 2 pounders to really capitalize on this awesome oline. Then we can really just pound it down peoples throats.

I think this is a good distinction (that I tried and failed to make earlier).  I don’t see it as moving Gibson to the 3rd down, change of pace roll, but becoming more of one half of the two headed monster.

 

On a side note, if find it a bit strange that Gibson was planning on slimming down this offseason, but I don’t feel like he’s looked quite as quick as he did last year.  Could simply be a product of the injury, or it could be that he’s focused on running a bit more patiently/powerfully?  I don’t know.  But that’s coloring my view a little bit - last year I thought he’d be great to take over for McKissick, this year I’m seeing him more as the 1a/1b back vs the 3rd down type.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I think this is a good distinction (that I tried and failed to make earlier).  I don’t see it as moving Gibson to the 3rd down, change of pace roll, but becoming more of one half of the two headed monster.

 

On a side note, if find it a bit strange that Gibson was planning on slimming down this offseason, but I don’t feel like he’s looked quite as quick as he did last year.  Could simply be a product of the injury, or it could be that he’s focused on running a bit more patiently/powerfully?  I don’t know.  But that’s coloring my view a little bit - last year I thought he’d be great to take over for McKissick, this year I’m seeing him more as the 1a/1b back vs the 3rd down type.

I agree. Why wouldn’t every team want to have a two headed monster—RBs are guaranteed to get injured. I like more of a 70-30 split versus an even back field, seems like it doesn’t provide the starter time to feel out a game. 
 

Watching him the last two years he definitely seems more of lumbering pick up speed guy versus quick. 

[Tarpon75]

18 hours ago, KDawg said:

Wearing down doesn’t just mean his gas. It’s also consistent injury patterns. So yes, you have seen him wearing down.

 

Its also fumbling in big moments. It’s also not thinking clearly and running out of bounds in big moments. 
 

Yes, the last two can be other factors as well. But they also happen when a person is tired and beat up and they aren’t lucid in thought.

He may be injury prone,I sometimes think that. He has hurt very early in the season and I don’t think has anything to do with being worn down. As far as going out of bounds he allowed himself to be tackled and forced out of bounds but did not run out of bounds as you stated. He fumbled early in the game and clearly fatigue had nothing to do with that.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Tarpon75 said:

He may be injury prone,I sometimes think that. He has hurt very early in the season and I don’t think has anything to do with being worn down. As far as going out of bounds he allowed himself to be tackled and forced out of bounds but did not run out of bounds as you stated. He fumbled early in the game and clearly fatigue had nothing to do with that.

Fatigue doesn’t end at the end of a game. It’s a scale. Some people have a higher tolerance.

 

Its a fitness to fatigue scale. 
 

I suggest reading this: https://sandcresearch.medium.com/what-is-the-fitness-fatigue-model-6a6ca3274aab

 

Its long. But you’ll see how injuries are a form

of fatigue. Chronic injuries in an individual is typically due to fatigue and not “freak” incidents that occur. 
 

Fatigue occurs over long periods. For instance, a running back in the first quarter or first drive can still be fatigued due to other factors: practice, life in general, previous games and in some cases previous seasons and the offseason.

 

Antonio Gibson went from 101 touches his entire college career to now close to 400 touches in 1.5ish NFL seasons. That is a SIGNIFICANT increase in fatigue where his fitness has yet to catch up. Fitness doesn’t mean body fat, for what it’s worth. Or lung capacity necessarily. It’s simply the bodies ability to recover. 
 

Read that link.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Fatigue doesn’t end at the end of a game. It’s a scale. Some people have a higher tolerance.

 

Its a fitness to fatigue scale. 
 

I suggest reading this: https://sandcresearch.medium.com/what-is-the-fitness-fatigue-model-6a6ca3274aab

 

Its long. But you’ll see how injuries are a form

of fatigue. Chronic injuries in an individual is typically due to fatigue and not “freak” incidents that occur. 
 

Fatigue occurs over long periods. For instance, a running back in the first quarter or first drive can still be fatigued due to other factors: practice, life in general, previous games and in some cases previous seasons and the offseason.

 

Antonio Gibson went from 101 touches his entire college career to now close to 400 touches in 1.5ish NFL seasons. That is a SIGNIFICANT increase in fatigue where his fitness has yet to catch up. Fitness doesn’t mean body fat, for what it’s worth. Or lung capacity necessarily. It’s simply the bodies ability to recover. 
 

Read that link.

Great post.

It's why losing teams tend to be injured teams.

 

It also kinda backs up the point I've been making about being calloused from repetition from the position. 

 

Which is also a reason I think Gibsons best days are ahead of him.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Koolblue13

[KDawg]

On 11/26/2021 at 6:03 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Great post.

It's why losing teams tend to be injured teams.

 

It also kinda backs up the point I've been making about being calloused from repetition from the position. 

 

Which is also a reason I think Gibsons best days are ahead of him.

I think they are, too. As long as we don’t keep pushing up the fatigue on him and allow the fitness to increase.

 

I’ve said it many times, as have you. This guy is not best suited as a downhill runner that keeps slamming into a defense over and over. It doesn’t do him any favors or the team. His best role is 10ish touches a game (if he hit that mark and only that mark he’d wind up at 170 touches in a 17 game season. 69 more than his two years at Memphis). He’d likely have games where you continue to feed him and maybe a few where he doesn’t see the field as much. 
 

But the goal should be increasing his fitness:fatigue issues and using him in a way that benefits him and the team. 
 

Lower his touch count, be more dynamic with him, get him the ball in space.

 

I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see his YPP increase with a lessened workload. 

[Koolblue13]

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think they are, too. As long as we don’t keep pushing up the fatigue on him and allow the fitness to increase.

 

I’ve said it many times, as have you. This guy is not best suited as a downhill runner that keeps slamming into a defense over and over. It doesn’t do him any favors or the team. His best role is 10ish touches a game (if he hit that mark and only that mark he’d wind up at 170 touches in a 17 game season. 69 more than his two years at Memphis). He’d likely have games where you continue to feed him and maybe a few where he doesn’t see the field as much. 
 

But the goal should be increasing his fitness:fatigue issues and using him in a way that benefits him and the team. 
 

Lower his touch count, be more dynamic with him, get him the ball in space.

 

I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see his YPP increase with a lessened workload. 

100%

 

And I'm really high on him, although a bit frustrated at times. I really thought (and still kind of think) he could have a Faulk/Edge type of impact at some point in his career. His lifetime carries are so low that I could see him playing into his 30s and having his best years.

 

*IF* we stop slamming him into walls.

 

I like Patterson, but he's not the guy you slam into walls either.

 

I'm not sure how you play this with our RBs. McKissic is a FA. I hate to see him go, because he's been so great for us. However, Gibson is kind of a bigger version of that. Do we go after our grinder, move Gibson to the McKissic role, but increase plays and keep Patterson? Do we keep the 3 we have now and hope Patterson grows into a new role? 

 

I'm high on McKissic. I guess it depends what kind of contract he wants.

 

RB can go a few ways this offseason and the only guy that is a must keep is AG, but we need to use him better and that doesn't happen without a grinder on the roster.

[TradeTheBeal!]

The young man had a heck of a game last night.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

The young man had a heck of a game last night.

Agreed. I know a lot of people are critical of his going out of bounds again and he should have been smarter, but that run was still some physical running to even get something out of it.

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

The young man had a heck of a game last night.

 

He did, but 2nd week in a row, he paired a great performance with a brain fart of running out of bounds, when we needed to run out the clock.

Maybe Heinicke can teach Gibson how to slide.

 

[Stadium-Armory]

McKissic is really good. Glad to hear his injury is nothing seirous.

[wit33]

Mckissic has been amazing this year, not to say he wasn’t last year. I was open to idea of having him take scaled back role with Samuel (which may still happen), but open to resigning him at this point. He’s better than just good at his role, he’s great. Like idea of maintaining some continuity going into next year if becomes a “ready to contend year”. 

[Commander -JB-]

Gibson/McKissic is a great playmaking duo out of the backfield.

[Warhead36]

He runs with great violence and authority. We just gotta get him into space more where he can just plant his foot cut and run. He struggles when he's in traffic, his vision goes to poop there and he often just runs into the backs of guys.