Game Day Thread - Washington at Mr Ed's Mile High Ride

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Dallas has won nothing since 95.

They're still somewhere in the top 15-20 teams since then though. They can expect to be competitive week in and week out, also, they have had two franchise QBs post '95.

 

We've been bottom feeders

[Voice_of_Reason]

41 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

We were 6-3 before Alex got hurt. 

That was such a fake 6-3 though.  I give them credit for it, but they had been blown out by both of the good offenses they played, and they won a game in Tampa where they gave up 500 yards, and got extraordinarily lucky with turnovers and such.

 

They could only win if they played an extremely clean game and the other team didn't have a good offense or self destructed.  

 

The best team we've had since 2012 was 2016, when we should have won 10-12 games, but we couldn't because Hopkins missed some HUGE game winning kicks, the defense was absolutely historically bad on 3rd and long, and Kirk "Kirked" in some of the biggest spots.  

 

But that offense was for-real.  It infuriates me they allowed it to be coached by a bunch of imbeciles. And how they allowed Gruden and Allen to kick around for another 3 years is completely beyond comprehension.  

 

That was the end of it.  McVay, Garcon and DJax left, leaving us with Jay, Doctson and Ryan effing Grant in 2017, then Kirk leaves, and the rest is just all the crying.  

[wit33]

 

36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

RB, we need a true RB1 who is a big bully between the tackles. Patterson looked good on his runs and we have a pretty good run game, that we can barely utilize because we're rarely in games, but we run early and it opens up the play action for us. I think Turner has been really good in that regard. The 1rst down runs up the middle, which fans seem to hate are almost always for over 5 yards and get us to second and short. When defenses start taking that away and opening up our PA passing, we don't have the QB to take advantage or a RB that can turn those 2 yard hits into 5 yards. Our ground game is purely thanks to our Oline, which is a top 5 unit for running.

 

I agree with needing a pro at the RB position. Patterson seemed to provide RB skill/know how, but lacks the size needed to punish team on early downs. He provided competency and even that looked good behind what seems to be good to great run blocking Oline. 

 

I’m not a fan of Gibson’s overall energy on the field, he seems to be too much in his own head and upset after each run. Lacking flow and positive energy when on the field. I believe he still has tremendous upside, but not as the bell cow back (as you mention as well). I’d like to see maybe transition to a role like the Panthers used with Curtis Samuel, but skew it towards his strengths— would be a monster on her sweeps. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Collins looked great.

 

 

He’s a legit monster at the line of scrimmage. He may not know it yet, but Ron and Jack may have secured him another solid pay day when cut next year. 

[the burgundy and gold]

1 hour ago, FrFan said:

 

Least surprising thing ever that this back fired pretty much immediately. Anyone who didn't see this coming hasn't been following this team for the last two decades. This horse has been beaten to death but just incase, I wasn't a Hopkins lover, but certainly didn't hate him as much as some. My take is that if they were gonna dump him, training camp or the preseason was the time to do it. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

46 minutes ago, tshile said:

Meh. It really sounds to me like you’re trying to sell me a **** sandwich, when I already have one, yours just has lettuce and tomato on it. 
 

I understand that generally speaking dallas has fielded teams with (supposedly) more potential than ours. 
 

if the proposal is to swap the teams (in terms of how “well” they do) then I’m gonna pass and continue to ignore the local football team. 
 

getting an extra 5-7 weeks before you realize your team has yet again failed to be any good when it matters, doesn’t really seem like an improvement to me. 
 

im sick of the incompetence. Dallas isn’t really any better in that department. I don’t care if you cherish their regular season record more than ours. The results that matter are the same. 
 

there’s a ton of teams out there that, if we could be like them, would be a huge huge improvement. Dallas isn’t one of them. 

No, I'm just telling you that you're wrong and that it's not a debate.  Dallas is better than us.  That's not my opinion, it's fact.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Dan T.]

Instead of Dallas, a closer analogy to Washington over the last 20 years in terms of record and lack of playoff appearances is the Jacksonville Jaguars.

 

Let that sink in for a minute if your Monday isn't crappy enough already.

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Dan T. said:

Instead of Dallas, a closer analogy to Washington over the last 20 years in terms of record and lack of playoff appearances is the Jacksonville Jaguars.

 

Let that sink in for a minute if your Monday isn't crappy enough already.

It's WFT, Jets, Lions and Jacksonville imo all tied for worst franchises over the last 20. We're bottom 4 easily. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Instead of Dallas, a closer analogy to Washington over the last 20 years in terms of record and lack of playoff appearances is the Jacksonville Jaguars.

 

Let that sink in for a minute if your Monday isn't crappy enough already.

Right.

 

Sure, Washington is the same as Dallas under the "There's 31 losers every year" mentality - but that's just what coaches say.  There are absolutely levels to loserdom and we are on the same level with the dregs of the league, Dallas is in the middle.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game live, Halloween stuff, so I went back and watched most of it after.

 

Here are some overall thoughts:

 

- The first 4th down play call with the roll-out to RSL, somebody screwed up.  I think Seals-Jones didn't get enough depth on the route.  I actually like the idea of not basing your head into a stacked front with our RBs or QB sneak, because neither of those have been effective either.  So I'm ok with trying something different.  But I think RSJ was supposed to get 2 more yards of depth so when TH threw the ball, it was already a first down.  I can actually close my eyes and watch Peyton running that exact same play to Dallas Clark about 1,489 times.  And completing about 1,470 of them.  It's a well designed play, and it works, but I think something got screwed up.

 

- General thought:  TH was never supposed to be the WFT starter.  We are playing with a backup QB and getting backup QB results.  By all accounts, he didn't even push Fitz in camp.  The ONLY reason there is not a narrative of, "Well, this is typically what happens when you have a backup QB play for long stretches of time" is because he played well in a spot start against Tampa.  He doesn't have the tools, he's not a developmental guy, he is who he is, which is a backup, and he's playing like a backup. 

 

In 2010, the Colts, with Peyton Manning, went 10-6 and won the division.  Lost a wild card game to the Jets.  

 

In 2011, Peyton never played a snap and they went 2-14.  Was the roster identical?  No.  But would a healthy Peyton have gone 2-14 with that team?  The evidence suggests no.  

 

The only team I can remember who were able to survive with a backup QB was when Tom Brady went down and Matt Cassel led the Pats to a 10-6 record.  But that's more the exception than the rule.

 

- By my untrained eye, guys are getting open and the ball is not finding them anywhere near consistently enough.  Again, backup QB.  This is expected.  But it's hard to criticize other players or coaches when the QB play is spotty.

 

- However, I will say the running on first down and second and long thing is massively aggravating.  I will allow that I think Scott Turner is trying his best to not put the game on TH.  However, with a few exceptions every game, they're just not a good first down running team.  So they're pretty consistently in second and long, behind the sticks, and into known passing situations.  

 

It's a tough question to solve.  Do you throw more on early downs, because it might be a little easier, and trust TH, or do you run more in order to put less on him.

 

I think we've tried "run to try and protect him" enough, and we should try "throw the ball on just about every first down" a few times and see what happens.  Throw on first, if it's incomplete, throw on second, if it's complete, choose run/pass on second down.  I'd really like to see how that works.

 

- Landon Collins played well in his new role.  Why wasn't he in that role all along?  That's bad on Ron and Jack.  Everybody else knew it, why didn't they make it happen earlier/

 

- I think Davis and St. Juice are going to be good players.  But they are both raw and need to play and develop.  I think both have made some progress.

[Peregrine]

Another game with major points left off the board directly from Ron.  Last week missed FGs and attempts to go for 4th cost us 4 scores, this week it was 3.  You cut a kicker because theres a fantastic kicker available.  Not when you dont have a better replacement.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

- The first 4th down play call with the roll-out to RSL, somebody screwed up.  I think Seals-Jones didn't get enough depth on the route.  I actually like the idea of not basing your head into a stacked front with our RBs or QB sneak, because neither of those have been effective either.  So I'm ok with trying something different.  But I think RSJ was supposed to get 2 more yards of depth so when TH threw the ball, it was already a first down.  I can actually close my eyes and watch Peyton running that exact same play to Dallas Clark about 1,489 times.  And completing about 1,470 of them.  It's a well designed play, and it works, but I think something got screwed up.

 

Great post and I agree with everything you said, but wanted to highlight this part.

 

When it happened, everyone was bashing Turner for calling such a dumb play, but three things happened and that's why it failed.

 

First, you're right that it looks like RSJ just didn't get far enough down field.

 

Second, The pass was extremely late. If the pass came right when he turned into his cut, he would have had the time to turn it up field for the first. I'm not sure if that pass was late because Hienicke knew he was short and waiting for him to get deeper or because Heinicke doesn't seem to process things quickly and is generally late on throws.

 

Third thing is that Justin Simmons is the best FS in football and flew in from way the **** out in in space to make the play for the defense. Most players aren't seeing that play develop quickly enough to get in there that fast. It was an amazing effort from him. The first of many great plays by him yesterday.

 

I'm not sure how Turner takes any blame on that. It's a great play, hell, a super common play that every single team runs and it should have worked if their execution defending it wasn't that much better than ours. 

[SemperFi Skins]

Rams getting Von Miller.... They are the NFC team to beat

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Rams getting Von Miller.... They are the NFC team to beat

what?

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No, I'm just telling you that you're wrong and that it's not a debate.  Dallas is better than us.  That's not my opinion, it's fact.  

 

 

 

 

 

I hate Dallas.  And I get people wanting to think they've been as bad under Jerry than its been here under Dan but the two teams IMO are almost borderline on different planets in some regards.  Yes neither team has won a SB in eons or had much success in the playoffs but otherwise...

 

A.  WFT is bleeding fans, we aren't a draw in any way.  Not in the stands, not for local TV not for national TV.  Dallas is a blockbuster on all those fronts.  The gap has increased tremendously especially over the last 10 years on that front.  There was a time when we were neck and neck with Dallas on some of those metrics, especially as to team worth.  But they've pulled a mile ahead of us. 

 

B.  We haven't won more than 10 games in like 30 years.  They've beaten that 10 game metric a bunch of times.  In the 2000s they made the playoffs almost twice as many times as we have.

 

We are in conversation with the Jags, Lions, teams like that. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[SemperFi Skins]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

what?

 

Rams just traded for Von Miller

[Koolblue13]

Just now, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Rams just traded for Von Miller

Jesus, they are gonna be fun to watch.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Rams getting Von Miller.... They are the NFC team to beat

Just got the alert on my phone.  Holy moly.  The rich keep getting richer.

Edited November 1, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Inigo Montoya]

29 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Instead of Dallas, a closer analogy to Washington over the last 20 years in terms of record and lack of playoff appearances is the Jacksonville Jaguars.

 

Let that sink in for a minute if your Monday isn't crappy enough already.

Except they have a better Stadium and owner... It's like us and the Lions right now for which franchise would you rank at the bottom

[Skinsinparadise]

The Rams are who Dan-Vinny dreamt themselves to be, wheelers and dealers who make things happen and are often right.  The problem was Vinny-Dan were usually wrong.  But I recall Vinny used to defend their moves by saying they won't apologize for being aggressive.  

[Warhead36]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Rams are who Dan-Vinny dreamt themselves to be, wheelers and dealers who make things happen and are often right.  The problem was Vinny-Dan were usually wrong.  But I recall Vinny used to defend their moves by saying they won't apologize for being aggressive.  

Like I said in another thread, its fine to trade picks for vets when you're already a contender and just need that one last piece to push you over the edge.

 

But Vinny was trading picks for vets when we were like a 4-5 win roster, so maybe we could be 7-9 or 8-8. That's dumb.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Like I said in another thread, its fine to trade picks for vets when you're already a contender and just need that one last piece to push you over the edge.

 

But Vinny was trading picks for vets when we were like a 4-5 win roster, so maybe we could be 7-9 or 8-8. That's dumb.

 

Agree, also they overpaid big time.  A 3rd and 4th for Duckett?  a 3rd and 4th for Lloyd.  On and on. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Except they have a better Stadium and owner... It's like us and the Lions right now for which franchise would you rank at the bottom

Until the Lions start pulling their weight off the field with scandals, that title is ours and ours alone. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, also they overpaid big time.  A 3rd and 4th for Duckett?  a 3rd and 4th for Lloyd.  On and on. 

And their moves rarely worked out.  Just a combo of awfulness.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

They're still somewhere in the top 15-20 teams since then though. They can expect to be competitive week in and week out, also, they have had two franchise QBs post '95.

 

We've been bottom feeders

Being 15-20 isn’t really anything to brag about in a league of 31. And, like I said, they got lucky with their QBs. It happens. They’d be right along with us at the bottom if they didn’t.

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Just got the alert on my phone.  Holy moly.  The rich keep getting richer.

It better work for them because I don’t think they have a day one or two pick for the next 19 years.