The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[NeverSurrender]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Just because I don't think Heinicke is a good NFL QB doesn't mean I'd want to give up a huge contract for a guy who's a slight upgrade. He'll probably be the only decent QB to hit the FA market so someone will undoubtedly overpay drastically for him in the desperate (and probably foolish) hope that he'll be the final piece they need.

 

 

Smart teams. Because they know Jimmy G is incredibly unlikely to put their team over the top. He's been carried by great supporting casts and defenses for his entire career.

 

Is it really worth it to give a huge contract to a QB who will require a great supporting cast on offense and a great defense in order to do anything of note? Are we really going to bank on the same game plan we're using today working for the next 3 seasons?

 

The Niners are an anomaly because they've somehow managed to keep a great supporting cast for many years. Having the best offensive mind in the NFL also helps a ton with that. They're the exception, not the rule. 

I really think the 49ers are a SB contender, so having said that.  Does everyone here think Jimmy will hit the market next year if they win it? The other guy is still on his rookie deal right?

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

I really think the 49ers are a SB contender, so having said that.  Does everyone here think Jimmy will hit the market next year if they win it? The other guy is still on his rookie deal right?

 

The Niners have been trying to get rid of Jimmy G for a while, even though they went to the SB with him in 2019 and deep into the playoffs with him last season.

 

Are they really just complete morons who don't appreciate how good Jimmy G is, or do they possibly know more about him as a QB than others do?

 

I'd be pretty shocked if they suddenly gave up on the guy they paid three 1st round picks for and decide to stick with the guy who they've apparently been trying to shop for years.

Edited December 2, 2022 by mistertim

[method man]

Mac Jones should be an option if they want to part with him. Don't like the fact that he isn't a threat with his legs but he should do well here given that this team has a lot more talent in the skill positions and Turner, for all his faults, is a better offensive mind than Patricia and Judge

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

Mac Jones should be an option if they want to part with him. Don't like the fact that he isn't a threat with his legs but he should do well here given that this team has a lot more talent in the skill positions and Turner, for all his faults, is a better offensive mind than Patricia and Judge

 

They have Mac Jones on his rookie deal for the next 2 seasons and then can pick up a 5th year option on him in 2025. If they're willing to give up on a 1st round QB this soon, that should be a big red flag.

[method man]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

They have Mac Jones on his rookie deal for the next 2 seasons and then can pick up a 5th year option on him in 2025. If they're willing to give up on a 1st round QB this soon, that should be a big red flag.

 

Belichek is not always rational. Let's see how loyal he is to Patricia. EIther Patricia or Jones have to go

[Ball Security]

Just now, method man said:

 

Belichek is not always rational. Let's see how loyal he is to Patricia. EIther Patricia or Jones have to go

He could always move Patricia back to defense and bring back McDaniels as OC. 🤣

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

He could always move Patricia back to defense and bring back McDaniels as OC. 🤣

O’Brien could very well end up back there as an OC again, he’s apparently interested in jumping back to the NFL and he isn’t getting another HC job

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Belichek is not always rational. Let's see how loyal he is to Patricia. EIther Patricia or Jones have to go

 

Fair point. I think he also got a bit too big for his britches by lucking into having the GOAT at QB for 2 decades. I feel like he thinks he was a bigger part of that success than he actually was. And now he's facing the music of life without Brady and he's flailing and going nuts in FA, etc. 

 

So I wouldn't put it past him to do something else idiotic.

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Fair point. I think he also got a bit too big for his britches by lucking into having the GOAT at QB for 2 decades. I feel like he thinks he was a bigger part of that success than he actually was. And now he's facing the music of life without Brady and he's flailing and going nuts in FA, etc. 

 

So I wouldn't put it past him to do something else idiotic.

 

Keep in mind Rivera was going to draft Mac Jones if he slid to our pick that year. He likes him.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

The Niners have been trying to get rid of Jimmy G for a while, even though they went to the SB with him in 2019 and deep into the playoffs with him last season.

 

Are they really just complete morons who don't appreciate how good Jimmy G is, or do they possibly know more about him as a QB than others do?

 

I'd be pretty shocked if they suddenly gave up on the guy they paid three 1st round picks for and decide to stick with the guy who they've apparently been trying to shop for years.

Like Heinicke, Garopolo limits their ceiling. But they're so loaded everywhere else their ceiling is still a Super Bowl win. 

[method man]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

He could always move Patricia back to defense and bring back McDaniels as OC. 🤣

 

I believe his son is a co-DC and no reason for them to change what they are doing as their D is awesome. They should just send Patricia back to the special advisor role he was in before and bring in a real OC. 

 

Zappe is an X-factor. You can tell Bill really likes him so maybe he can justify to himself to go with Zappe and trade Mac

[wit33]

18 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Have we entered make believe lala land in this thread? How does so much of our fanbase not see we look like a high school offense with Heinicke, granted he runs it well but cmon we cant compare an afc runner up qbs mistakes to heinicke s mistakes. 

This is the NFL offense of 2022. Check around the league. Defenses have chosen to get lighter and quicker, offenses have flipped the script this season. Washington ahead of the curve, imagine that. 
 

17 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I can't think of many QBs less like Heinicke than Brady in playing style, so why anyone would use him when talking about TH?

 

Well, the current version of Heineke puts him in the group of pocket QBs. 

 

 

11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

There is no way the 9ers tag him. He just did a good soldier move and restructured his contract to make less money this year for the team. Tagging him would burn the bridge not to mention potentially upset Lance.

 

SF is going to let him walk. And if/when they do, I'm not sure why you think he's going to get some big monster contract. Especially not after the Russell Wilson debacle.

This is my prediction, this level of QB is going to be shocked at the offers they receive. The jig is almost up for this level of QB. 

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The Niners have been trying to get rid of Jimmy G for a while, even though they went to the SB with him in 2019 and deep into the playoffs with him last season.

 

Are they really just complete morons who don't appreciate how good Jimmy G is, or do they possibly know more about him as a QB than others do?

 

I'd be pretty shocked if they suddenly gave up on the guy they paid three 1st round picks for and decide to stick with the guy who they've apparently been trying to shop for years.

 

At some point you will be right about Jimmy G, probably when he retires.
 

His pay combined with salary this season makes him a top 10 QB this season. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by wit33

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Well, the current version of Heineke puts him in the group of pocket QBs. 

 

At some point you will be right about Jimmy G, probably when he retires.
 

His pay combined with salary this season makes him a top 10 QB this season. 

 

As far as the current version of Heinicke, I guess that might be true. But that doesn't help his case much, because he's not very good as a pocket QB. His main attribute was his ability to extend plays and use his legs. Now without that, there's not much going for him.

 

Regarding Jimmy G, maybe with his salary and the team around him, I guess you could make a case for him being a top 10 QB in a specific situation and context. But there's no way he's actually a top 10 QB from a playing and talent perspective. I know you're obsessed with cap percentage but I'm talking about how good a QB actually is. Not how good he is in relation to the amount of cap he takes up.

 

And I think I'll be proven right about Jimmy G when he goes to another team where he won't have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up.

Edited December 2, 2022 by mistertim

[mh86]

32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as the current version of Heinicke, I guess that might be true. But that doesn't help his case much, because he's not very good as a pocket QB. His main attribute was his ability to extend plays and use his legs. Now without that, there's not much going for him.

 

Regarding Jimmy G, maybe with his salary and the team around him, I guess you could make a case for him being a top 10 QB in a specific situation and context. But there's no way he's actually a top 10 QB from a playing and talent perspective. I know you're obsessed with cap percentage but I'm talking about how good a QB actually is. Not how good he is in relation to the amount of cap he takes up.

 

And I think I'll be proven right about Jimmy G when he goes to another team where he won't have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up.

In heinis defense, he does still extend plays with his legs. He’s pretty good at that actually. He just doesn’t take off and pickup the extra yards that most want him to. That being said, I agree with everything else you said.

Edited December 2, 2022 by mh86

[Conn]

Hearing Heinicke acknowledge and address that he’s missed some opportunities to run for first downs actually made me feel a ton better. He could have easily said he’s focused on keeping his eyes downfield for big plays, etc. but instead he just admitted he should be doing that more to keep drives on-track. That’s great. Leads me to believe we’ll see him start to keep defenses a little more honest in those situations in the coming weeks. And he needs to get that on tape if we’re going to keep succeeding the way we are, or defenses will continue to constrict like they did last season. He can loosen them up without putting himself in crazy danger. 

[CapsSkins]

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

And I think I'll be proven right about Jimmy G when he goes to another team where he won't have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up.

 

Or! Or... and, hear me out here... he could come here and also have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up. In fact, what if I told you that was basically the entire thesis behind the interest in him from a Commanders perspective?  

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by CapsSkins

[wit33]

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as the current version of Heinicke, I guess that might be true. But that doesn't help his case much, because he's not very good as a pocket QB. His main attribute was his ability to extend plays and use his legs. Now without that, there's not much going for him.

 

I agree.
 

Though, he’s making progress from within the pocket, but remains below average. 
 

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Regarding Jimmy G, maybe with his salary and the team around him, I guess you could make a case for him being a top 10 QB in a specific situation and context. But there's no way he's actually a top 10 QB from a playing and talent perspective. I know you're obsessed with cap percentage but I'm talking about how good a QB actually is. Not how good he is in relation to the amount of cap he takes up.

 

I was going to attack you saying I’m obsessed with the cap as it relates to the QB, then reflected and agree I’m obsessed  lol

 

Yea man, for me it’s all situational and contextual relating to any QB who’s not clearly elite. If the QB is elite, like actually impacts wins and losses throw out any logic and just get the deal done. 
 

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And I think I'll be proven right about Jimmy G when he goes to another team where he won't have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up.

We are going on years of winning and competent level of QB play. I don’t disagree he’s not great, more so competent. I love competence at the QB when paid 5% or below of the cap. When a QB provides a ceiling of competence for most part and making 10-15% of the cap… I’m out/obsessed. 
 

I think the jig is almost up for this level of QB and it will return to it being a privilege for this level of QB to lead a franchise. The average QB has become entitled, much like the NBA all star comparison I’ve been making for 6 years or so. 

 

[Thinking Skins]

22 minutes ago, Conn said:

Hearing Heinicke acknowledge and address that he’s missed some opportunities to run for first downs actually made me feel a ton better. He could have easily said he’s focused on keeping his eyes downfield for big plays, etc. but instead he just admitted he should be doing that more to keep drives on-track. That’s great. Leads me to believe we’ll see him start to keep defenses a little more honest in those situations in the coming weeks. And he needs to get that on tape if we’re going to keep succeeding the way we are, or defenses will continue to constrict like they did last season. He can loosen them up without putting himself in crazy danger. 

People have said it's injury risk. I think he doesn't think he can get the yards. I've seen defenders running up on him and while he could probably either just get 3 yards or do a spin to get more, he had too weigh that vs throwing to an "open" receiver. But I'm glad he's challenging himself

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

32 minutes ago, Conn said:

Hearing Heinicke acknowledge and address that he’s missed some opportunities to run for first downs actually made me feel a ton better. He could have easily said he’s focused on keeping his eyes downfield for big plays, etc. but instead he just admitted he should be doing that more to keep drives on-track. That’s great. Leads me to believe we’ll see him start to keep defenses a little more honest in those situations in the coming weeks. And he needs to get that on tape if we’re going to keep succeeding the way we are, or defenses will continue to constrict like they did last season. He can loosen them up without putting himself in crazy danger. 

It’s been more than the last few weeks.  He pretty much stopped running it the latter half of last season, and hasn’t done it much this season.

 

Perhaps he’s feeling the heat to make something happen.  Hope so, it makes watching him more fun and will give this offense a little extra something that it’s dearly missing.

Edited December 2, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 If the Commanders' QBs had twin sisters lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Change of pace from the "arm strength and INTs" debates 👍

[Rex Tomb]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 If the Commanders' QBs had twin sisters lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Change of pace from the "arm strength and INTs" debates 👍

Eh, they’re all 3s.  Woof! 😂

[Kelvin Bryant]

5 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 If the Commanders' QBs had twin sisters lol:

<snip>

Change of pace from the "arm strength and INTs" debates 👍

This is oddly disturbing.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Eh, they’re all 3s.  Woof! 😂

 

Carol Wentz actually looks like an old neighbor I used to have lol...

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Or! Or... and, hear me out here... he could come here and also have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up. In fact, what if I told you that was basically the entire thesis behind the interest in him from a Commanders perspective?  

 

 

And I get that. I do. I just don't think it's a good strategy. I don't think it's a long term winning strategy with Heinicke and I don't think it would be with Jimmy G, even though he'd be a slight upgrade to TH.

 

That's why I said that the Niners are an anomaly. Most teams with dominant running games and dominant defenses do not stay that way for very long. For that kind of dominance you have to have a bunch of the right pieces in the right places at the right time, and getting that and keeping it together is next to impossible over a long period of time. Especially when you take into account the cap, etc.

 

Hell, even in this season alone our defense has gone from very mediocre at the start of the season to borderline dominant. Do you really believe we'll somehow be able to keep a dominant defense together for more than a season? Outside of the Ravens and the Niners, it's super rare. Same thing with the running game.

 

So that's why I'm really not interested in Jimmy G. I just don't think what he'd bring would be worth a huge contract that he'll probably be demanding. I'd rather keep trying to find an actual stud QB so we can then be contenders for the next 10-15 years instead of hoping every season that we might trip and fall backwards into a Super Bowl by a combination of a short lived great supporting cast and mediocre QB and sheer luck.

[KillBill26]

14 minutes ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

This is oddly disturbing.

There's one out there of NFL coaches as women it's hilarious.