The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2

[skinsfan93]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No doubt.  This is a Marty ball formula and its working for now. 

Ah Marty ball. Yes! I would say even more going back to the Browns time with Ernest Byner and Kevin Mack. If I recall Bernie wasn’t a statistical great qb but he did win and would have taken the team to the Bowl if not for a fluke fumble. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

Best case scenario this is 1999 with the offense and defense flipped. Production wise we’ve seen better offenses with less talent than we currently have at WR/TE/RB 

 

We've got some good talent at those positions but I'm not confident that Heinicke is the dude to get the ball to the WR threats we've got often.  He goes to Terry a lot, seldom to anyone else.  Dotson is a ghost at the moment.  Brown has had some key catches over the past couple games, Samuel is practically non-existent as well.

 

We've got a dual headed RB situation, they're going to get a lot of snaps.  I dunno, while I like Heinicke a little bit, my defense of him is mainly to troll @Voice_of_Reason.  He's not the guy that can maximize the talent we have at WR.

[NoCalMike]

Here's how I see it. 

 

Looking at our schedule, I only see 2 games remaining where our specific style of offense could run into trouble.  SF & DAL.  Dallas is more of a tossup because I think their defense is good, but not shut down.  San Francisco on the other hand is the type of defense that will force your offense out of the comfort of what they prefer to do.  Now that said, the 49ers front 7 is a lot better than their secondary, especially with a few injuries they've taken.  The 49ers can be throw on. I am not talking throwing for 350 4 TDs kind of thrown on, but you can make plays against them and I could see that game coming down to which QB Heinicke or Garappalo makes the 1-2 big throws in the game to win it because both teams could be struggling to score.  

 

The rest of the schedule I think we can win games leaning on the run game & defense, and having Heinicke just making safe throws and limiting mistakes. 

 

We have the benefit that Defense and the running game are two aspects that travel well, into any stadium and with any weather conditions.  That is why they call it cold weather style football, because you can do both effectively regardless of the conditions.  

 

The San Francisco & Dallas (and the other caveat with Dallas is how the playoff seeding looks going in Week 18, if Dallas cannot improve or fall in their playoff seeding, I think they might rest players, same with the Commanders, so let's call that game a tbd for now, for the context of my post) are the two games where we could get a much better look at just how much Heinicke has or hasn't improved as a QB.

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Yeah the Super Bowl. Which is exactly where Davis took the Panthers after he was let go for the likes of Trung Candidate. 😒

 

Dung Tandidate!  Haven't heard that name in awhile.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

We've got some good talent at those positions but I'm not confident that Heinicke is the dude to get the ball to the WR threats we've got often.  He goes to Terry a lot, seldom to anyone else.  Dotson is a ghost at the moment.  Brown has had some key catches over the past couple games, Samuel is practically non-existent as well.

 

We've got a dual headed RB situation, they're going to get a lot of snaps.  I dunno, while I like Heinicke a little bit, my defense of him is mainly to troll @Voice_of_Reason.  He's not the guy that can maximize the talent we have at WR.

I enjoy trolling you back. 

 

This offense was put together to be balanced but tipping towards being explosive.  They drafted Dotson and Robinson so they could both have more explosiveness on the outside, as well as pound the ball inside allowing Gibson to be a threat either as a runner or receiver.  The idea was they could spread the field with McLaurin, Dotson, Samuel, and then rotate in Gibson, Robinson, McKissic and Logan Thomas.  That group, they could mix and match, but they would have the ability to run or stretch the field with any personnel group they put out there.  

 

They traded for Wentz because he has the ability to maximize the weapons.  Maybe I'm just either slow or a moron, or both, but I still think he has the talent to do it if he is protected.

 

The problem:  they totally blew the OL, especially early in the season.  They let Scherff go (which I was fine with), released Flowers, and then signed Norwell and Turner. Rouiller and Larsen were both on the PUP, as was Schweitzer.

 

It was like they built a Ferrari, and then put the wheels for a prius on it and expected it to go fast.  What happened?  The wheels all exploded and the car crashed and burned.

 

So, then what they did, they just built a prius because that's all they could really do. It's effective and consistent.  

 

Wentz got hurt, but I honestly think if he hadn't, the results would have been the same, assuming they started running the ball 40+ times a game.  

[skinsfan93]

12 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Here's how I see it. 

 

Looking at our schedule, I only see 2 games remaining where our specific style of offense could run into trouble.  SF & DAL.  Dallas is more of a tossup because I think their defense is good, but not shut down.  San Francisco on the other hand is the type of defense that will force your offense out of the comfort of what they prefer to do.  Now that said, the 49ers front 7 is a lot better than their secondary, especially with a few injuries they've taken.  The 49ers can be throw on. I am not talking throwing for 350 4 TDs kind of thrown on, but you can make plays against them and I could see that game coming down to which QB Heinicke or Garappalo makes the 1-2 big throws in the game to win it because both teams could be struggling to score.  

 

The rest of the schedule I think we can win games leaning on the run game & defense, and having Heinicke just making safe throws and limiting mistakes. 

 

We have the benefit that Defense and the running game are two aspects that travel well, into any stadium and with any weather conditions.  That is why they call it cold weather style football, because you can do both effectively regardless of the conditions.  

 

The San Francisco & Dallas (and the other caveat with Dallas is how the playoff seeding looks going in Week 18, if Dallas cannot improve or fall in their playoff seeding, I think they might rest players, same with the Commanders, so let's call that game a tbd for now, for the context of my post) are the two games where we could get a much better look at just how much Heinicke has or hasn't improved as a QB.

If we split with the Giants and even lose in San Fran, I think we still finish with 10 wins and that will get us into the playoffs. Sure still tall task but certainly doable. We played both the Eagles and Vikings tough so we could pull one out but highly doubt it since it’s in San Fran. I think the Dallas game will be meaningless to the Cowboys so I’ll chalk it up as a win. Browns could be dangerous especially with Watson back and having a few games under his belt. 

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They traded for Wentz because he has the ability to maximize the weapons.  Maybe I'm just either slow or a moron, or both, but I still think he has the talent to do it if he is protected.

I also thought Wentz could bounce back and have a solid season. Yes he has the talent you would think of a former #2 pick but his issue is between his ears. It started with his time in Philly when Foles won the Superbowl and they drafted Hurts. He never got his head screwed on right. Reminded of a hockey goalie losing their way. After being essentially given away by the Colts and being coached by the same guy from his rookie year, he still hasn’t mentally recovered. 
 

Trust me he’s damaged goods. 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

Dude the only difference is quarterback. The team loves him including the defense. They play hard for him because he’s a team guy. If you are not entertained by winning then you did pick the right screen name. No one in the NFC is stopping us. TH4 is taking us to the dance. So buckle up and enjoy the best ride we have had since 1991.

 

I legitimately cannot tell if this is satire or not.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I legitimately cannot tell if this is satire or not.

It is, but it isn’t.

[Berggy9598]

How people think wins is a black and white QB stat in 2022 is beyond me 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Berggy9598

[SoCalSkins]

28 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It is, but it isn’t.

Exactly 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[sjinhan]

as much as I am enjoying the TH roller coaster ride here...

 

If we get another one of these TH performances... I wouldn't be against or upset us making a change to Wentz or Howell after the bye

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[dunfer]

Wentz in this heavy run scheme is only going to give him more time. I dont think taylor is generating alot of extra time in the pocket out of thin air. Its the play calling.

 

Its all bonus, so dont really care which way they go...just hope Sam is ready to step up next year

[mh86]

8 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

as much as I am enjoying the TH roller coaster ride here...

 

If we get another one of these TH performances... I wouldn't be against or upset us making a change to Wentz or Howell after the bye

Heini wolves, ATTACK!

[sjinhan]

Just now, mh86 said:

Heini wolves, ATTACK!

lol

 

Me personally, I would want to see Howell in there... we are just looking for someone who can give little more than TH.. Howell is inexperienced but he did play a lot of college ball and it is that cross blend of Wentz and TH.  TH with stronger arm.  Howell like TH played on a team where the QB had to ball out in every game.  You know Howell has some of that moxie...  He went from a pocket passer to a scrambling QB.. Howell will do what it takes to win the game... 

 

If we have another bad game from TH, win or lose... we gotta look at someone else after the bye.

[goskins10]

8 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

as much as I am enjoying the TH roller coaster ride here...

 

If we get another one of these TH performances... I wouldn't be against or upset us making a change to Wentz or Howell after the bye

 

If he loses and even then I think you have to give him both Giants games. It's a divisional rival. I would never pull someone after they won unless it was hiddiously bad. And while yesterday was not great by Taylor, he didn;t look like he was actively throwing the game LOL.  He made some truly bonehead decisions and showed the limitations of his arm but he made plays when he needed to and does what he does, keep the team motivated. I can't explain it but the evidence is in the Ws. 

 

Now if he starts being the direct cause of losses then you have to make a change. I want it to be Howell. I really want no part of Wentz but I can see the argument for it. But to change just to change does not work for me. That's like well we won but we can win better so we will make a change. A win is a win. Don't mess with it. 

[sjinhan]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

If he loses and even then I think you have to give him both Giants games. It's a divisional rival. I would never pull someone after they won unless it was hiddiously bad. And while yesterday was not great by Taylor, he didn;t look like he was actively throwing the game LOL.  He made some truly bonehead decisions and showed the limitations of his arm but he made plays when he needed to and does what he does, keep the team motivated. I can't explain it but the evidence is in the Ws. 

 

Now if he starts being the direct cause of losses then you have to make a change. I want it to be Howell. I really want no part of Wentz but I can see the argument for it. But to change just to change does not work for me. That's like well we won but we can win better so we will make a change. A win is a win. Don't mess with it. 

 

 

Well if you are going to make the change then it is because we want to actually have a chance to win games in the playoffs.... IF we are going to make a change, I want Wentz or Howell to have the BYE + 4 games to be ready for the playoffs...  I agree with you that I would rather see Howell in there than Wentz.  I think that the running ability that Howell has will make up for the inexperience that he might have as a rookie.  Wentz... Other than that the strong arm, I don't think there is much left in the tank.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I get the allure of Wentz with a similar strategy to what they’ve dialed up for TH.

 

But it sure would suck to be both Ron and Wentz should he get the nod at some point down the stretch.  Clearly they aren’t going to take the ball from Heinicke until he loses at minimum 1 game, but likely 2.  At that point all games are must win.     Nothing to build a guys confidence like playing poorly prior to getting injured, losing job due to injury, and then being put back in with the expectation being must win against what is likely top competition - SF/Dallas.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[dunfer]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get the allure of Wentz with a similar strategy to what they’ve dialed up for TH.

 

But it sure would suck to be both Ron and Wentz should he get the nod at some point down the stretch.  Clearly they aren’t going to take the ball from Heinicke until he loses at minimum 1 game, but likely 2.  At that point all games are must win.     Nothing to build a guys confidence like playing poorly prior to getting injured, losing job due to injury, and then being put back in with the expectation being must win against what is likely too competition - SF/Dallas.

 

earn your 28 million ****

[zCommander]

45 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

as much as I am enjoying the TH roller coaster ride here...

 

If we get another one of these TH performances... I wouldn't be against or upset us making a change to Wentz or Howell after the bye

 

You mean like on Sunday where we still won despite of the lackluster performance of the 2nd half?. Yeah no coach in their right mind is going to do that as long the team is winning. You just simply can't **** with the current formula when we have the #7 seed of a playoff berth. 

[dunfer]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

You mean like on Sunday where we still won despite of the lackluster performance of the 2nd half?. Yeah no coach in their right mind is going to do that as long the team is winning. You just simply can't **** with the current formula when we have the #7 seed of a playoff berth. 

dallas did it. Id bet majority of coaches that had their starter go down to injury and replaced him with the backup did it

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

30 minutes ago, dunfer said:

earn your 28 million ****

So you are a motivational speaker by trade, huh?

[dunfer]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So you are a motivational speaker by trade, huh?

just by neccessity...i dont get paid

[dc1]

1 hour ago, sjinhan said:

as much as I am enjoying the TH roller coaster ride here...

 

If we get another one of these TH performances... I wouldn't be against or upset us making a change to Wentz or Howell after the bye

Not if we win.

 

TH has to play as close to mistake free football as possible going forward (simply eliminate the forced errors. Hard to do when TH is an optimistic passer). 

 

Our next two games are arguably the easiest for the remainder of the season.

 

If we can beat the Giants this week regardless of  QB play then I think he's a lock through the end of the season or until we are eliminated from the playoffs).

 

However, considering your point, if we lose this week and TH plays like he did on Sunday, then CW Is back in following the break. 

 

I also feel pretty solid about this one.