The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

I think Howell easily pulls out that game last night if he has a couple more weapons allowed to play with him. Game probably isn’t even close given all the other ways we dominated. Would have liked to have seem Dyami and Sims work with him for all those reps. Not starting caliber players, but talented enough against the 3rd string and lower types to let him flex a little more if they played the entire game. Didn’t matter either way but just think we would have seen a little more out of him. 
 

In the end, it doesn’t really matter, bc we hope to not have to even think about Howell until next offseason, when we get to see how he’s progressed. And even then, hopefully we don’t care that much because Wentz has lived up to his potential. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

45 minutes ago, Conn said:

In the end, it doesn’t really matter, bc we hope to not have to even think about Howell until next offseason, when we get to see how he’s progressed. And even then, hopefully we don’t care that much because Wentz has lived up to his potential. 

I think this is a good theory in a vacuum, and certainly the majority opinion on this board. It would be nice for Wentz to show out and for Howell to hold a clipboard for this season. I would also like it to be true. 
 

But I think the more likely scenario is that Wentz is an improvement for us, but not good enough to get us where we want to go. And no matter what side of the Wentz fence you stand on, the probability of him starting every game this season is low.

 

I think Howell will play well enough to be our backup QB, and I think he gets reps at some point this year. 

 

 

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think this is a good theory in a vacuum, and certainly the majority opinion on this board. It would be nice for Wentz to show out and for Howell to hold a clipboard for this season. I would also like it to be true. 
 

But I think the more likely scenario is that Wentz is an improvement for us, but not good enough to get us where we want to go. And no matter what side of the Wentz fence you stand on, the probability of him starting every game this season is low.

 

I think Howell will play well enough to be our backup QB, and I think he gets reps at some point this year. 

 

 

I don’t really agree, the guy has gotten nicked up a lot over the years but he doesn’t really miss games. If he’s an improvement (and I don’t see why he wouldn’t be), I can’t see Rivera sitting him. Rivera isn’t savvy enough to prioritize the draft pick even if Wentz is just average, if we’re in the playoff hunt the last six games. And we’ve have to be awful not to be in the playoff hunt. So odds seem pretty good that unless he suffers an injury more serious than most he’s sustained the last few years, he’ll start pretty much every game. 

[Koolblue13]

I don't see how Heinicke feels safe.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't see how Heinicke feels safe.

He’s safe this year.  
 

his agent should start putting out feelers for next year though.

[mistertim]

Yeah I think Heinicke is quite safe at the moment. Even if Howell were to beat him out for the backup job, TH would still stay as 3rd string. But he has to know that he's likely to be a FA after this season. They got younger and more talented at the QB position by drafting Howell, and Heinicke isn't stupid. I'm guessing he's at least already started talking to his agent about it.

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He’s safe this year.  
 

his agent should start putting out feelers for next year though.

 

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I think Heinicke is quite safe at the moment. Even if Howell were to beat him out for the backup job, TH would still stay as 3rd string. But he has to know that he's likely to be a FA after this season. They got younger and more talented at the QB position by drafting Howell, and Heinicke isn't stupid. I'm guessing he's at least already started talking to his agent about it.

We are going to carry 6WR and 4 TEs. At RB you definitely have Brob, Gibby and Mc, but maybe Patterson too, which excedes your 25 for offense. 

 

The BRob thing may have saved Heini from being close to the block.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I think Heinicke is quite safe at the moment. Even if Howell were to beat him out for the backup job, TH would still stay as 3rd string. But he has to know that he's likely to be a FA after this season. They got younger and more talented at the QB position by drafting Howell, and Heinicke isn't stupid. I'm guessing he's at least already started talking to his agent about it.

5 minute after Howell was selected, Th’s agent called him and said, “Don’t ****ing lose the backup job because you’ll need it as resume fodder for next season when you’re a FA.”

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

We are going to carry 6WR and 4 TEs. At RB you definitely have Brob, Gibby and Mc, but maybe Patterson too, which excedes your 25 for offense. 

 

The BRob thing may have saved Heini from being close to the block.

TH didn’t play last night because he’s100% safe.  

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

5 minute after Howell was selected, Th’s agent called him and said, “Don’t ****ing lose the backup job because you’ll need it as resume fodder for next season when you’re a FA.”

TH didn’t play last night because he’s100% safe.  

he didn't play, because we know who he is and wanted to see if howell had the chops.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

he didn't play, because we know who he is and wanted to see if howell had the chops.

Nah, there was never a competition.  Rivera has said that as has every single best reporter.  They held out the guys who had roster spots last night.  He’s 100% safe.  And should be. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Nah, there was never a competition.  Rivera has said that as has every single best reporter.  They held out the guys who had roster spots last night.  He’s 100% safe.  And should be. 

howell had a roster spot. So did davis and a bunch of people.

[Chris 44]

12 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

he didn't play, because we know who he is and wanted to see if howell had the chops.

They may also hedge their bets in case Wentz doesn't work out this year. Maybe roll with Howell next year knowing you have a capable back up in TH? Assuming they think enough of Howell to promote him to #1 and not worry about drafting a QB or searching free agency again. Big ifs and a long way to go till that scenario though.

[TheGoodBits]

Heinicke started most of the season for us last year, and while he definitely had his physical limitations he also can effectively run the offense. There’s a 0% chance Howell won the #2 spot from him this offseason. That said, Howell did show a ton of promise for a rookie in his first camp. Next offseason after he has a full year in the system, all bets are off as to whether he can win the backup job (costing TH his roster spot) or even the starting job honestly. Not saying I think it will happen but you can’t rule it out at this point. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, TheGoodBits said:

 

Heinicke started most of the season for us last year, and while he definitely had his physical limitations he also can effectively run the offense.

 

He can effectively run the offense they drew up for him.  Arm limitations shrink the offense.  
 

That’s not to say Howell is ready, just I would expect them to do the same if he was called to play.  Run a limited offense best suited for him at this point of his career.

[goskins10]

Here is how it breaks down - regardless of your position on TH or the other QBs. 

 

 - Unless he failed spectacularly Wentz was always QB1 - I think actually most would agree here. 

 

 - TH was never getting released - He has too much experience in the Offence and is the one they will look to in emergency - if and only if Carson get's injured. 

 

 - Sam Howell was never being released. He will be the #3 this year. He will be inactive on gamedays unless they decide to pull Wentz becasue he is not getting the job done. There is zero reason to put TH in at that piint. They will want to give Sam Howell every opportunity to show he can be QB1 so they know what you have to do in the offseason. The only other way he plays is if both TH and Wentz gets hurt or they pull Wentz due to poor performance.

 

 

21 minutes ago, TheGoodBits said:

Heinicke started most of the season for us last year, and while he definitely had his physical limitations he also can effectively run the offense. There’s a 0% chance Howell won the #2 spot from him this offseason. That said, Howell did show a ton of promise for a rookie in his first camp. Next offseason after he has a full year in the system, all bets are off as to whether he can win the backup job (costing TH his roster spot) or even the starting job honestly. Not saying I think it will happen but you can’t rule it out at this point. 

 

He knows the offence and can run it but not truly effectively. If he could run it effectively he would be the QB1 and we would have made the playoffs last season. He will be replaced by Sam Howell next year for QB2 unless Howell asends to QB1 - not a prediction at all. I have no idea if he can be a legitimate starter. He had a nice start but it's 3 preseason games against mostly scrubs. He has a very long way to go, not ot mention Carson has to fail or get injuried for him to have a chance in the immediate future.  

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by goskins10

[The Sisko]

16 hours ago, Conn said:

I don’t really agree, the guy has gotten nicked up a lot over the years but he doesn’t really miss games. If he’s an improvement (and I don’t see why he wouldn’t be), I can’t see Rivera sitting him. Rivera isn’t savvy enough to prioritize the draft pick even if Wentz is just average, if we’re in the playoff hunt the last six games. And we’ve have to be awful not to be in the playoff hunt. So odds seem pretty good that unless he suffers an injury more serious than most he’s sustained the last few years, he’ll start pretty much every game. 

Agreed. Wentz is pretty tough. He played at some point last season with both ankles sprained.

 

3 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

They may also hedge their bets in case Wentz doesn't work out this year. Maybe roll with Howell next year knowing you have a capable back up in TH? Assuming they think enough of Howell to promote him to #1 and not worry about drafting a QB or searching free agency again. Big ifs and a long way to go till that scenario though.

Unless Wentz somehow transforms himself into Shady Brady, I doubt we bring him back. His contract is simply too large. Going into next season, if Howell is even remotely ready and they think he can be close to Wentz level effectiveness, elevating Howell to starter is a no-brainer because of the salary cap implications. So there's still hope for you TH lovers out there.🙂

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, The Sisko said:

Agreed. Wentz is pretty tough. He played at some point last season with both ankles sprained.

 

Unless Wentz somehow transforms himself into Shady Brady, I doubt we bring him back. His contract is simply too large. Going into next season, if Howell is even remotely ready and they think he can be close to Wentz level effectiveness, elevating Howell to starter is a no-brainer because of the salary cap implications. So there's still hope for you TH lovers out there.🙂

I hope this is the case.  The combo of financials and fast tracking his development (after sitting this year) is a compelling argument to let him take over next year.  Would be great to have a young, homegrown/drafted guy taking over.

 

I’m curious if there is really that much of a difference, in terms of time needed to develop, between Howell and most early round qbs.  Guys like Fields, Zach Wilson, Lawrence, and even Mills.  Obviously there are the unicorns - guys like Luck - but it seems like most are given the reins, take their lumps year 1, and develop as they play.  Which brings me to why the team might not go that route… will they be willing to let Howell work through those lumps?  Will they be willing to (potentially/likely?) take a step back (from Wentz to Howell) in the hopes it leads to two steps forward?  If we miss out on the playoffs, or maybe lose in round 1, I could see them being open to the idea.  If the team wins 10+ games, or a playoff game, I kind of doubt they’d ditch Wentz.  And I’m just not sure that Howell will have enough opportunity to earn their trust/confidence before it’s time to make that decision.  We’ll see.  

[The Sisko]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I hope this is the case.  The combo of financials and fast tracking his development (after sitting this year) is a compelling argument to let him take over next year.  Would be great to have a young, homegrown/drafted guy taking over.

 

I’m curious if there is really that much of a difference, in terms of time needed to develop, between Howell and most early round qbs.  Guys like Fields, Zach Wilson, Lawrence, and even Mills.  Obviously there are the unicorns - guys like Luck - but it seems like most are given the reins, take their lumps year 1, and develop as they play.  Which brings me to why the team might not go that route… will they be willing to let Howell work through those lumps?  Will they be willing to (potentially/likely?) take a step back (from Wentz to Howell) in the hopes it leads to two steps forward?  If we miss out on the playoffs, or maybe lose in round 1, I could see them being open to the idea.  If the team wins 10+ games, or a playoff game, I kind of doubt they’d ditch Wentz.  And I’m just not sure that Howell will have enough opportunity to earn their trust/confidence before it’s time to make that decision.  We’ll see.  

I could be wrong, but I suspect that we basically tread water, i.e. stay at or near .500 with this season's much weaker schedule. That's not all on Wentz. I think we have some serious issues with our defense that is going to cost us some games. If we get near the end of the season and we're out of playoff contention, I could definitely see them starting Howell for the last two or three games to give him playing time and to get a better handle on what he's capable of.

[FootballZombie]

11 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’m curious if there is really that much of a difference, in terms of time needed to develop, between Howell and most early round qbs.  Guys like Fields, Zach Wilson, Lawrence, and even Mills.  Obviously there are the unicorns - guys like Luck - but it seems like most are given the reins, take their lumps year 1, and develop as they play.  Which brings me to why the team might not go that route…

 

I think it depends on how many lumps you expect a guy to take. If your throwing a rook QB to the wolves there is a non-zero possibility that you can break him either mentally or physically and he will never be the same. Ramsey here was a great example of that. His start was so rocky, and with so little support, he was never the same, and obviously never got past it.

 

Then you look at a guy like Luck. By all means he had the tools, but by not providing the team around him early, they broke him physically.

 

You can have a highly touted guy like Lawrence, but if your gonna roll out league worst rosters around him year in and year out, how long until he develops bad tendencies?

 

 

I think if you have a guy who clearly isnt ready, you gotta assume an increase in lumps, and the negative mannerisms gained will probably outweigh the experience gained by getting in the game. Every Rook is gonna make mistake, but you can't send a potential train-wreck onto the tracks. If you know a rook is gonna cause a massive spike in self-errors, your doing him a favor not sending him out there.

[Koolblue13]

 

[The Sisko]

Given who their current starting QB is, I couldn't believe they signed Carson Strong. His skill set is the polar opposite of Jalen Hurts'.

[HigSkin]

This is crazy, TH has a new backup $$ goal.  LOL

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

Carson is intriguing.  But I admit I became much less intrigued after his subpar Senior Bowl and the stories that he's a really weird dude personality wise.  Though we do have one of his favorite targets in Cole Turner.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

With Carson Wentz sitting out the Washington Commanders' preseason finale against the Baltimore Ravens, it was expected that rookie Sam Howell was going to get a healthier dose of the snaps.

 

As it turned out, the former UNC quarterback was under center from start of finish.

 

It was very important, head coach Ron Rivera said after the Commanders' 17-15 loss to the Ravens, for the team to get an in-depth evaluation of Howell. So, with Taylor Heinicke serving as the emergency quarterback, Howell was named the starter for the evening.

 

Of course, Howell still has plenty of growth ahead of him, but finishing the night 24-of-35 for 280 yards and a touchdown is not a bad way to wrap up the preseason. It was a chance for Howell to show what he can do, and many of the traits that convinced Washington to draft him were on display.

 

"[I'm] really appreciative of the coaches for having the confidence in me to go the whole way," Howell said. "Obviously, I still have a lot to work on, but it was great seeing the whole game through."

 

Washington had seen smaller sample sizes of Howell's skill set in the previous preseason games, as he came in during the fourth quarter of both matchups. Howell flashed his arm strength as well as his elusiveness in the pocket against the Carolina Panthers and Kansas City Chiefs, and it nearly brought the Commanders back in from double-digit deficits in both games.

Against the Ravens, Washington got to see how Howell handled himself with an actual game plan, and the rookie did not disappoint. He completed six of his first nine passes and got the offense within field goal range on the first two drives.

 

One of the highlights from first quarter came on a third-and-4, when Howell delivered a strike to former UNC teammate Dyami Brown, who turned the pass into a 26-yard gain. He also had a 15-yard pass to Alex Erickson, which led to a field goal later in the quarter, and a 28-yard shot to Matt Cole that led to another field goal in the third quarter.

 

"I thought Sam played well, I thought he did a nice job," Rivera said. "It's just one of those things where we want to get him as much exposure to get comfortable."

 

Adjusting to the professional game has been a project for Howell. Aside from digesting the playbook, which is much more extensive than the one he learned at North Carolina, Howell has been working on more minute details like his footwork. "It really is" different from what he was asked to do with the Tar Heels, he said, but he has gotten more comfortable with it over the past month.

 

"It is something that I need to work on. It really goes to hand-eye coordination, but also with the rest of your body, as well."

Howell admitted that he tends to rely on his feet when things break down, so he has focused on delivering his throws in the pocket. One of the best examples came in the fourth quarter, when Ravens linebacker Chuck Wiley laid a lick on Howell as the quarterback delivered a pass to Reggie Bonnafon. The running back rewarded that by making the grab and diving into the end zone.

 

"Really, it's about simulating game situations and different types of rushes. It's more mental reps and then putting that to your body. And then, it's about just going through the process and getting more comfortable with the offense."

 

 

There were times when Howell needed to rely on his athleticism, and he was just as impressive on the ground, if not more so. He led the team with 62 yards on eight carries, and it helped keep drives alive on several occasions. He converted a third-and-9 on the opening drive, and his rushing yards accounted for 47% of the team's 17-play, 64-yard scoring drive in the third quarter.

Howell finished the night with 342 total yards. His evaluation of his performance: it was OK.

 

"There are of course some plays that I would like to have back, but there were also some plays I was able to make. Obviously, we'll take a look at the film and be more critical. But my expectations will always be high."

 

Barring injury, Saturday's game will be the last time we see Howell on the field for a while. In the meantime, he, offensive coordinator Scott Turner and quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese will dissect the film to see where he can improve while he sits behind Wentz and Heinicke.

 

However, it is clear to Rivera that Howell "has a very bright future in this league."

 

"He was exciting to watch, he made some really good decisions, and he made some decisions that could have been better. He did a nice job."