The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Brugler's new mock

 

 

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cliff notes.

 

Love the intangibles.  His arm is stronger IMO than some of his critics here say it is.

 

Outside of Caleb, the best off platform QB in this group as to consistency.

 

Clutch -- big plays on third and long.

 

Good wheels that I would use more.

 

Don't love his ability to layer throws and change speeds -- stuff that Maye IMO is good at.

 

There is something missing that is hard to quantitfy for me while watching him that makes me think his ceiling is limited.  But he has a high floor.  He reminds me of a cross of college Tannehill (college Tannehill was great with boots and was an underrated athlete) and Alex Smith.

I see Brock Purdy more than anybody else.  I agree there is something missing too. Maybe the deep balls? While Maye 2 years ago, Penix and Daniels have WR's with blazing speed, length.. Mich does not and those type players or call those plays.  Roman is a good WR with good not great speed 4.4. with average size. What would J.J. do with those type WR's that Penix or Daniels have?   If you could get him for a slight trade down and a pick it's a option.   

Edited April 17 by skinsfan66

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll get a hard time from @wit33 for this.  Heck even though he talks about his basketball background. 

 

I used to run track.  Played a lot of sports, nothing professional of course but i was often the fastest player in whatever sport I played so I know how to use speed.

 

My last hurrah was at the SB Experience, same event that Terry McLaurin was at which was cool, years ago, they had a 40 yard dash contest in different waves and I outran everyone there including a few teenagers.  But 2 years later my son challenged me to a race and beat me.  So lol, I've been training for a rematch.

 

With all of this QB talk, its in the eye of the beholder.  I am reading a post just now from someone that its Daniels who struggles with first level throws.  To my eyes that was Maye's weakness.  Daniels looks good to me on that front.  On the 2nd level, Maye is masterful.  Daniels doesn't throw nearly enough on the 2nd level but when he did he looked accurate, I looked at his PFF scores and that backs it up.

 

Both dudes have strengths and weaknesses.  It depends on what you focus on.  For example I feel a bit better about Daniels potential throwing off platform and on the 2nd level after doing some heavy watching of him this weekend because when he does both, he's good at it.   Also feel a little better about pressure to sack ratio because a bunch of that was on designed runs that were stopped in their tracks.   Maye's pressure sack ratio was almost exactly the same number as Daniels last year.

 

I also felt better about Maye.  Maye's bad games were bad.  He showed though flashes in them.  But his good games were VERY good.

 

If I want to slam the heck out of either player, it would be easy because neither is perfect and just like life if I focused just on someone's flaws they'd looked like train wrecks.  But real life is about strengths and weaknesses.  Just like I slammed the idea of Riddick years ago cherry picking some throws to sell that Haskins can do this or that -- I also slam the idea of isolating negative throws because heck everyone has them.  And my issue with Riddick on Haskins wasn't highlighting those throws but it was that he discounted that Haskins generally struggled with those same throws. 

 

I don't find for example Daniels really struggling with 2nd level throws or making off platform throws when he actually makes them.  His intermediate accuracy grade and completion rate off platform ironically are both higher than Maye.  But Maye makes these throws routinely while Daniels doesn't really use them much of a tool and that IMO has to change for him to be successful in the league but I have some optimism that he will.

 

 

Super ****ing cool!

 

You are one those rare genuinely humble keep it under wraps kinda guys. Says a lot about you bro.

 

 

 

My last hurrah was at the SB Experience, same event that Terry McLaurin was at which was cool, years ago, they had a 40 yard dash contest in different waves and I outran everyone there including a few teenagers. 

 

Wow! That must have been a hell of an experience.

 

I know you're not going to volunteer it, because you would view that as being too prideful and that, much to your credit, is not who you are---

 

However, I am intrigued as hell and I'm just rude inquisitive enough to kindly request if you wouldn't mind sharing your best times in the 40, 100, 220, 440, and if you did longer distances the 800 and the mile.

 

But 2 years later my son challenged me to a race and beat me.  So lol, I've been training for a rematch.

 

This is the natural way of things.

 

And if it now at some point this will be among your warmest and most proudest memories.

 

My only son passed away a long time ago, but sometimes I have dreams where we're together again doing silly things that seem real until I realize he's gone and this can't be happening and then I suddenly wake up and it fades away into the unknown and all that's left are those wonderful memories.

 

Thanks for sharing. :kowtow:

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Super ****ing cool!

 

You are one those rare genuinely humble keep it under wraps kinda guys. Says a lot about you bro.

 

 

 

My last hurrah was at the SB Experience, same event that Terry McLaurin was at which was cool, years ago, they had a 40 yard dash contest in different waves and I outran everyone there including a few teenagers. 

 

Wow! That must have been a hell of an experience.

 

I know you're not going to volunteer it, because you would view that as being too prideful and that, much to your credit, is not who you are---

 

However, I am intrigued as hell and I'm just rude inquisitive enough to kindly request if you wouldn't mind sharing your best times in the 40, 100, 220, 440, and if you did longer distances the 800 and the mile.

 

But 2 years later my son challenged me to a race and beat me.  So lol, I've been training for a rematch.

 

This is the natural way of things.

 

And if it now at some point this will be among your warmest and most proudest memories.

 

My only son passed away a long time ago, but sometimes I have dreams where we're together again doing silly things that seem real until I realize he's gone and this can't be happening and then I suddenly wake up and it fades away into the unknown and all that's left are those wonderful memories.

 

Thanks for sharing. :kowtow:

 

I got to run to the dentist which to some here is like an painful if we took Daniels at #2, I'll respond when I get back. 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cliff notes.

 

Love the intangibles.  His arm is stronger IMO than some of his critics here say it is.

 

Outside of Caleb, the best off platform QB in this group as to consistency.

 

Clutch -- big plays on third and long.

 

Good wheels that I would use more.

 

Don't love his ability to layer throws and change speeds -- stuff that Maye IMO is good at.

 

There is something missing that is hard to quantitfy for me while watching him that makes me think his ceiling is limited.  But he has a high floor.  He reminds me of a cross of college Tannehill (college Tannehill was great with boots and was an underrated athlete) and Alex Smith.

I could be way off here, but if I had to guess as to that missing ingredient, number one might be the throwing with touch you mentioned.  You don’t really see those bucket throws down field or those lobs to backs in the flat or on wheel routes - hitting them on the run.  And another point I’d raise relates to how often they ran the ball - I don’t know that you see those random stretches of 8 (or whatever) consecutive pass plays you might see in other offenses that can make you feel like the qb is dicing up the defense.  All speculation on my end though.

 

In some ways, I feel like McCarthy might be the cleanest of the qb prospects, but the odd flip side is I think he requires more projection than the other guys (aside from projecting Daniels/Penix to stay healthy).

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

I could be way off here, but if I had to guess as to that missing ingredient, number one might be the throwing with touch you mentioned.  You don’t really see those bucket throws down field or those lobs to backs in the flat or on wheel routes - hitting them on the run.  And another point I’d raise relates to how often they ran the ball - I don’t know that you see those random stretches of 8 (or whatever) consecutive pass plays you might see in other offenses that can make you feel like the qb is dicing up the defense.  All speculation on my end though.

 

In some ways, I feel like McCarthy might be the cleanest of the qb prospects, but the odd flip side is I think he requires more projection than the other guys (aside from projecting Daniels/Penix to stay healthy).

 

Agree completely. I think McCarthy is definitely the cleanest. But he's not the best in any category. Not the best size, durability, accuracy, deep ball, speed, etc. But he's okay to better in all of those things.

[skinny21]

14 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Super ****ing cool!

 

You are one those rare genuinely humble keep it under wraps kinda guys. Says a lot about you bro.

 

 

 

My last hurrah was at the SB Experience, same event that Terry McLaurin was at which was cool, years ago, they had a 40 yard dash contest in different waves and I outran everyone there including a few teenagers. 

 

Wow! That must have been a hell of an experience.

 

I know you're not going to volunteer it, because you would view that as being too prideful and that, much to your credit, is not who you are---

 

However, I am intrigued as hell and I'm just rude inquisitive enough to kindly request if you wouldn't mind sharing your best times in the 40, 100, 220, 440, and if you did longer distances the 800 and the mile.

 

But 2 years later my son challenged me to a race and beat me.  So lol, I've been training for a rematch.

 

This is the natural way of things.

 

And if it now at some point this will be among your warmest and most proudest memories.

 

My only son passed away a long time ago, but sometimes I have dreams where we're together again doing silly things that seem real until I realize he's gone and this can't be happening and then I suddenly wake up and it fades away into the unknown and all that's left are those wonderful memories.

 

Thanks for sharing. :kowtow:

Man, as a dad of 3 teens, this breaks my heart.  Love that you have wonderful memories though.

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got to run to the dentist which to some here is like a painful if we took Daniels at #2, I'll respond when I get back. 

You aren’t kidding about training….

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Why would Jayden Daniel have thrown to a TE in college? Its arguably the wrong play every time lol 

 

I think yall forget they were trying to win games sometimes. 

 

Edit: I had to google to even prove he had as TE. Someone name him. Quick! 

If you have the Horses who cares? Feed the 2 future pro bowlers or take off. 

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Why are we so hung up on current age again? It seems silly to me but I understand there is some kind of indicator yall have honed in on that says if you are not an MVP before you are 23 then you are more likely to bust in the NFL? Something like that right? 

If Daniels came out at Lamar’s age, he would probably have been a 5th rd pick. Same as what Peters supposedly told him.

 

You take out 2023 and Jayden is still a 4th or 5th rounder. Having a single good year as a 5 year player is suspect.
 

Dude is a guaranteed bust in the making. All the red flags are there. 1 year wonder. Problems in the locker room at ASU. Aloof and self centered in his interviews always about him instead of the team. Toothpick frame that will never last a full NFL season. It’s not only wasting the second overall pick on him it’s the 2 to 4 years of wasted time before we trade the sunk cost. Should have kept Howell if this was the direction Peters is taking. 

[Dah-Dee]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Also feel a little better about pressure to sack ratio because a bunch of that was on designed runs that were stopped in their tracks.  

 

I agree to a certain degreee on this, because in addition to the DOA designed runs, there were 7-8 2023 sacks within a second of snapping the ball, due to missed assignments up front or just flat out getting beat, some of them swarm sacks, with no chance to throw it away. 

 

BUT: Daniels' P2S ratio was above the red-flag 20% mark *every* one of his 5 (4.5) college seasons. It's been too bad, too consistently, to write off one of the stickiest metrics as a big warning on Daniels, especially with that slight frame.

 

The frame, combined with the P2S ratio and his strong tendency to run vs pass under pressure, would be enough for GM me to pass on Daniels and pick fellow blue chip Maye - who has his own issues, but nothing so consistently (P2S, run v. pass) or permanent (frame) as with Daniels.

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree completely. I think McCarthy is definitely the cleanest. But he's not the best in any category. Not the best size, durability, accuracy, deep ball, speed, etc. But he's okay to better in all of those things.

That’s my stance exactly.  His statement to his recruiting class (and subsequently losing one game in 2 years, along with winning a title) showing he’s wired differently - that’s an added bonus that is really compelling for me.  While I lean toward Maye and think Daniels could be a stud for us, I can’t say I’d mind if McCarthy was our pick (as unlikely and against the grain as that is).

[rumplestilskin]

Hoping we let New England know that Daniels is our first choice but would be willing to swap picks if they absolutely need him at the right price. If Peters does infact covet Drake the most, all the JD to Washington hype is playing in our favour for a little extra compensation.  If not I am on board with whomever they select but there is definitely something about Maye I like the most.

[Dah-Dee]

Just now, rumplestilskin said:

Hoping we let New England know that Daniels is our first choice but would be willing to swap picks if they absolutely need him at the right price. If Peters does infact covet Drake the most, all the JD to Washington hype is playing in our favour for a little extra compensation.  If not I am on board with whomever they select but there is definitely something about Maye I like the most.

 

I've been thinking that if Peters wants Maye, and believes NE really wants Daniels and is not interested at all in Maye (which some reports do suggest), then the smart play would be to do exactly what they're doing - let the media buzz about Daniels keep growing without comment, have Quinn drop "gamechanger" and "quick processor" comments about Daniels that match up with his statements about desirable QB qualities, treat Daniels just a little bit differently than the other QB prospects (e.g., Quinn and Peters picking up Daniels at airport) - and possibly make NE nervous enough to come to them. Unlikely it will happen, but possible. I guess. 

 

More likely, GMAP is just going through the process and they're so focused on getting it right, getting off to a good start, that they don't have or want to make time for that kind of scheming.

[rumplestilskin]

6 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I've been thinking that if Peters wants Maye, and believes NE really wants Daniels and is not interested at all in Maye (which some reports do suggest), then the smart play would be to do exactly what they're doing - let the media buzz about Daniels keep growing without comment, have Quinn drop "gamechanger" and "quick processor" comments about Daniels that match up with his statements about desirable QB qualities, treat Daniels just a little bit differently than the other QB prospects (e.g., Quinn and Peters picking up Daniels at airport) - and possibly make NE nervous enough to come to them. Unlikely it will happen, but possible. I guess. 

 

More likely, GMAP is just going through the process and they're so focused on getting it right, getting off to a good start, that they don't have or want to make time for that kind of scheming.

True. If you can get the player you want and get extra compensation it isn't really scheming it is just good business. At the end of the day we have the power to choose.

[FootballZombie]

Moving down 1 spot is fun to fantasize about and an option I would be open to, but the NFL don't play like that when it comes to QBs.

 

We will identify our guy and take him at 2. No games.

[Ghost of]

44 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

My only son passed away a long time ago, but sometimes I have dreams where we're together again doing silly things that seem real until I realize he's gone and this can't be happening and then I suddenly wake up and it fades away into the unknown and all that's left are those wonderful memories.

You have my sympathies,  CitR. My father passed away when I was a teenager. For many years I had those dreams and felt he was still with us.  Now that I have a toddler son and infant girl, I fear losing them most.  But my second fear is not being there for them in their tender years. I don't know what I'd do in your position, you are stronger than you know. 

[actorguy1]

 

[SoCalSkins]

24 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

Hoping we let New England know that Daniels is our first choice but would be willing to swap picks if they absolutely need him at the right price. If Peters does infact covet Drake the most, all the JD to Washington hype is playing in our favour for a little extra compensation.  If not I am on board with whomever they select but there is definitely something about Maye I like the most.

Have you watched Dynasty about the Patriots? Bob Kraft has a type when it comes to QB. Bledsoe and Brady were like part of the family to him. Those guys will turn in the card for Maye in a split second if we go Daniels or give them #2.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Have you watched Dynasty about the Patriots? Bob Kraft has a type when it comes to QB. Bledsoe and Brady were like part of the family to him. Those guys will turn in the card for Maye in a split second if we go Daniels or give them #2.

Yeah honestly I don't think the Pats would even want Daniels. If we take Maye there is a really good chance they take McCarthy.

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Yeah honestly I don't think the Pats would even want Daniels. If we take Maye there is a really good chance they take McCarthy.

I think they have a deal in principal in place with the Vikings. If we go Maye they will trade back with the Vikings who will take Daniels. They could trade back up with the Chargers depending on what happens with 4. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, jg77 said:

It's okay to say something good about Daniels without prefacing your comment with "I prefer Maye" and "I want Maye"

I have done that tons in this thread. But I still prefer Maye. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know @Voice_of_Reason believes we here will forget more about football than Jay will ever know.  But even on @Voice_of_Reason terms, Jay's not bad winging it as a layman.  

I started writing a post about how Jay Gruden is a dumbass.  Then I deleted it.  

 

I'll just leave this here:

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I think they have a deal in principal in place with the Vikings. If we go Maye they will trade back with the Vikings who will take Daniels. They could trade back up with the Chargers depending on what happens with 4. 

I just don't see how the Pats can pass up on a QB. On the flip side, I actually think the Vikings might prefer McCarthy too. He'd be a perfect extension of that coaching staff.

 

If we don't take Daniels there could be a legitimately big slide.

[kingdaddy]

13 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Brand new short video with some interesting details on tomorrow's mass interviews below.

 

The Top Golf outing was from 5pm to 8pm everybody made it except for Penix whose flight came in late.

 

Tomorrow they're going to have separate stations set up with different coaches, management, scouts and other reps, even Josh Harris is going to be interviewing prospects.

 

Players will go from station to station with 20 minute interviews at each station. Kind of like a lightning round robin.

 

 

 

 

Per Sheehan, Daniels was the only prospect who got a limo ride from the airport to the complex? Pretty telling gesture if true.