The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

Cowherd is not a journalist or reporter. He has no real credible sources. 

[ntotoro]

Cowherd is the same guy who said this about Sean Taylor...

 

Quote

Sean Taylor, great player has a history of really really bad judgment, really really bad judgment. Cops, assault, spitting, DUI. I'm supposed to believe his judgment got significantly better in two years, from horrible to fantastic? "But Colin, he cleaned up his act." Well yeah, just because you clean the rug doesn't mean you got everything out. Sometimes you've got stains, stuff so deep it never ever leaves.

My gut feeling with this story, and we said yesterday, yesterday was not really a day to go out, yesterday was sort of a day, you know, grieving, but we're past the memorial part. It's grown-up time, ask yourself realistic questions....Just because somebody cleans the rugs doesn't mean there aren't stains. No matter what those commercials, OxiClean, tell you on cable TV, some stains you can't get out. And if you have bad judgment for 23 years of your life, even if you clean it up, your judgment doesn't get great over night.

 

Cowherd 11/29/2007

 

No, all the information's not in [on whether Taylor's murder was random]. But I feel pretty confident that my gut feeling, like any of yours, by the way, is right and was right.

 

BTW... he only ever doubled-down on it.

[wit33]

 Help me out…
 

 
Questioning Breakout Age: However, I haven’t fully explored the idea of breakout age and upon initial consideration, it seems somewhat lacking in substance.

Drake Maye’s Case: For instance, after just 8 minutes of research, I found that in Drake Maye’s supposed breakout season, he began strongly with 9 touchdowns and 0 interceptions in his first two games against Florida A&M and Appalachian State.
 

Maye’s Performance Decline: Yet, in his last four games, he struggled with 4 touchdowns and 4 interceptions, losing each game. Despite this, many still regard it as a breakout season at a “young age.”

Acknowledging Bias: While I do have a preference for Daniels, I understand that Maye could still be a valuable choice if selected by the front office.

Edited April 8 by wit33

[Llevron]

Big news if true (tis a joke) 

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Llevron

[Darrell Green Fan]

To me the biggest difference is the ability to escape pressure in the pocket. In today's game this is a really valuable skill. Daniels has the athletic ability to escape, if you watch the complete games with Maye he does not have that ability, clearly not at the same level as Daniels and Williams.  In fact he tends to drift into sacks and IMO that is more instinct that you are born with and coaching won't help all that much.    

[Warhead36]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

To me the biggest difference is the ability to escape pressure in the pocket. In today's game this is a really valuable skill. Daniels has the athletic ability to escape, if you watch the complete games with Maye he does not have that ability, clearly not at the same level as Daniels and Williams.  In fact he tends to drift into sacks and IMO that is more instinct that you are born with and coaching won't help all that much.    

Nobody was worse than Daniels at turning pressures into sacks.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

To me the biggest difference is the ability to escape pressure in the pocket. In today's game this is a really valuable skill. Daniels has the athletic ability to escape, if you watch the complete games with Maye he does not have that ability, clearly not at the same level as Daniels and Williams.  In fact he tends to drift into sacks and IMO that is more instinct that you are born with and coaching won't help all that much.    

Statistically, Maye was better at avoiding sacks under pressure than either of the other two.

[SkinsFTW]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

To me the biggest difference is the ability to escape pressure in the pocket. In today's game this is a really valuable skill.

 

It really helped Michael Vick

Spoiler

Run into even more sacks

 

[TheBigJourney]

44 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

The situation at ASU was of his own making. Jayden and his mother were involved with the recruiting violations that were part of the reason numerous coaches got fired and went on record to throw his teammates under the bus in the press. He’s already proven to be a coach killer and locker room cancer. His increased use of social media recently is not a good sign of any improvement going forward. 

Couldn’t be a bigger (mod edit)you tried 

[rockluc]

19 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Oh boy...

 

 

Strangely my optimism about us taking Maye just went way up. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

 The brutal hits were not the focus of the comments.  You were talking about him having wiggle and ways that could help him from your soccer time.  He has very good open field moves but in shorter space he is not very elusive overall like Lamar, Fields, Mahomes and that is were he takes those shots.

 

 

I get the point is if he was better at evading hits in the pocket and was elusive like a Mahomes he'd be less likely to get injured.  I am sort of mixed on that.   I don't think its so much about evading tackles but knowing when to get down.

 

He has some Lamar like moments in the pocket, insane highlight plays dodging defenders including in tight space but its not as consistent or as good at it as Lamar or Mahomes no doubt.

 

I don't think his issue though as to avoiding injuries is he does not have even wiggle in tight spaces.  I find him good enough on that front but certainly not elite.  His issue IMO is his frame and like Rg3 not being willing to slide to avoid hits.

 

Edited April 8 by Skinsinparadise

[Jumbo]

7 minutes ago, TheBigJourney said:

Couldn’t be a bigger (mod edit/ if you tried 

 

Goodbye. You won't be missed.

[Llevron]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Nobody was worse than Daniels at turning pressures into sacks.

 

That stat looks half as bad with proper context imo. He is going to take more sacks just by nature of running more. it is what it is. Sometimes he gets 30 yards sometimes he gets -3. Just part of it. Logan was even on the with Keim the other day saying it looks like his offense was designed with his legs being his escape/way out of bad play calls. That sometimes when he took sacks there was no answer on the field and so he had to run. Which makes sense cause, why not have him do it if he can break one for a TD at any time?

 

Context matters. Thats why Keim is telling you teams are not worried about it. Number is arbitrary without context. 

Edited April 8 by Llevron

[Jumbo]

I've hidden repeated troll boy "big journey"s last post and perma banned him for it

 

Read the sticky thread. 

 

No one should reply to that post if you saw it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

I think so, generally speaking.

 

It's only one play but as an example you can see how he does it: 

 

 

He does sometimes look like he's staring at one guy too long but it's hard to know if that's the "wrong" decision too, since sometimes you can tell that the other options are covered so it's basically him checking to see if like "X safety takes a wrong step" so he can get it to the guy he's zero'd in on.  He does seem to do a good job reading defenses before and after the snap most of the time, at least at the college level of things, so I sometimes wonder if he mentally sees things that eliminate certain routes, resulting in us getting less head movement that is the telltale sign of going through progressions.

 

Overall, I think he does it well; there's room for improvement like with anyone, there are definitely plays he should progress back to X side and doesn't, but overall he does very well.

I'm going to nitpick a little on this play.  Yes, he got through his progressions.  But this is an example of very slightly sloppy footwork.  

 

What's good:  He uses his feet to take his body to the read so when he gets to a throw he likes, he's already organized and ready to throw.

What's not as good: His footwork through the progression actually has him drift to the right for no particular reason.  He actually ends up about 3 yards farther to his right than where he starts. He starts just inside the left hash and finishes much more in the middle of the field.  He takes a big hop to the right when he goes from read 2 to read 3.

 

Now here's the thing: THAT is something which shows me poor coaching.  He either was taught to do it (for what reason, I'm not sure) or wasn't corrected out of it.  It shouldn't be hard to correct at all.  It would take a lot of reps to get it to be muscle memory.  He knows how to do a hitch-step in the design of the play.  But the actual doing of it is sloppy.  

 

A good QB coach and OC probably get that worked out quickly. 

 

In this case, there was no impact, but if you're hopping around on your hitch-steps, you can hitch yourself right into pressure, or your body can get out of sorts for when you need to throw.  

 

This wouldn't be a concern for me drafting him.  But it would be a day 1 coaching thing when he got into the facility. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Cowherd is not a journalist or reporter. He has no real credible sources. 

 

Agreed.

 

Only slightly more legitimate than if after draining my customary six pack of Colt 45 for lunch I had a religious vision telling me that we will draft Daniels.

[BMagic]

6 minutes ago, rockluc said:

Strangely my optimism about us taking Maye just went way up. 

Same, Colin also said Caleb's camp didn't want him to go to Chicago. Then, Colin had to get back on the air and backtrack at the request of Caleb's camp. Could be a giant smokescreen a la Mac Jones/Trey Lance.

 

On the contrary, Jayden's game is more electric and I wonder if that resonates with someone like Magic Johnson and whether or not Magic has some influence on the decision, being that his game was Showtime in the NBA. I recall Magic being a key player in recruiting Kingsbury to come here once the Raiders deal fell through and Magic promised him they would do all they could to get him his QB preference. This is a fanbase that needs to be revived and Jayden's style of play is more exciting to watch, especially for more casual fans.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

Thanks @CommanderInTheRye, you managed to get @JamesMadisonSkinsback into his true obsession: trading back. And now we all have to bear the brunt of a ton of completely nonsensical trade scenario posts. I will not forgive you for this.    

Somebody says "Trade Back" and immediately @JamesMadisonSkins:

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Somebody says "Trade Back" and immediately @JamesMadisonSkins:

 

 

I'm like a moth to a light. Or the moon to the sun.

 

That's my music baby!

Edited April 8 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Darrell Green Fan]

22 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Statistically, Maye was better at avoiding sacks under pressure than either of the other two.

I have no idea how they keep these stats. But all you have to do is watch the games, Daniels' athleticism allows him to make amazing escapes, Maye holds the ball too long and obviously does not have the same athletic ability that Daniels has. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

29 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Big news if true (tis a joke) 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow!

 

Talk about covering all the bases.

 

If you're a qb in this draft and we didn't request an interview with you I suggest you freshen up the resume and start looking for a different career.

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 minutes ago, BMagic said:

Jayden's game is more electric and I wonder if that resonates with someone like Magic Johnson and whether or not Magic has some influence on the decision

 

 

I sincerely hope not.

 

Let the professionals, the ones who've spent their entire careers studying football, make that call. 

 

The owners should support them and hold them accountable for their decisions, but they should not put their fingers on the scale.

 

XXXX

 

 

For the record: Jayden fan here, but open to, and will root for, whoever we choose.

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, BMagic said:

Same, Colin also said Caleb's camp didn't want him to go to Chicago. Then, Colin had to get back on the air and backtrack at the request of Caleb's camp. Could be a giant smokescreen a la Mac Jones/Trey Lance.

 

On the contrary, Jayden's game is more electric and I wonder if that resonates with someone like Magic Johnson and whether or not Magic has some influence on the decision, being that his game was Showtime in the NBA. I recall Magic being a key player in recruiting Kingsbury to come here once the Raiders deal fell through and Magic promised him they would do all they could to get him his QB preference. This is a fanbase that needs to be revived and Jayden's style of play is more exciting to watch, especially for more casual fans.

Magic has no say in who we draft. 
 

Nobody cares about casual fans unless they start spending money on the team. They won’t do that until we start winning. They’ll draft whoever they think has the best chance at being a winning QB without superficial reasoning like you gave above imo. Your reasoning reads like something that would have made sense during Snyder’s reign of terror. 

[redskinss]

 

This debate Is as fresh as a bag of peanuts from independence air.

[BMagic]

4 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

For the record: Jayden fan here, but open to, and will root for, whoever we choose.

 

I'd like Maye, however if they draft Daniels, I'll trust it because Kingsbury has an eye for special traits in QBs. If Daniels is the pick, I'd also like bigger receivers like Chase/Higgins that can win more on deep routes outside the numbers than a guy like Dotson. Ironically, Burrow had a similar set up at LSU with Chase/Jefferson and has been able to have the same luxury in the NFL.

 

I have a hard time seeing that style translate to the NFL consistently, but if they decide to go for it, then they need type of receivers to pull it off effectively.