The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DWinzit]

38 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I'm as crap as anyone projecting future success, but when I think a guy sucks, like Ponder, like Manuel, like Trubisky, like Zach Wilson, like Ryan Pickett etc and feel it almost comprehensively I can't remember the last time I was obviously wrong other than Josh Allen. Maybe Matt Ryan? But I wasn't paying attention back then and my memory was more: why didn't Matt Ryan do more at Boston College if he was so great? But I was paying ZERO attention to any of college football back then so I don't really think much of my analysis at the time, with Allen, I was 1000% engaged and just wrong, period. I've got the, he's the outlier of outlier excuse, which he was, but he was also a traits guy in a similar way to Maye, and I ignored his traits and fixated on his accuracy issues above all. 

 

I appreciate everyone's methodologies when I comes to grading out prospects. There is no best way that's for sure. Thanks for sharing and today....I'd take Maye 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Mariota wasn't really a plan or part of any sort of plan. They went after Darnold first.

Makes sense. Darnold was mentoring Maye back when he was in high school.

Edited April 6 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Skinsinparadise]

The way I see it

 

Maye has a good shot to be Herbert.

 

Daniels has a shot but lesser shot to be Lamar Jackson.

 

McCarthy has a strong shot to be Alex Smith

 

None of this is slam dunk.  They could all bust of course.

 

I think Daniels is more likely of the three to bust.

 

But i think where i am different than some here is i don't look at this opinion as fact.  It's opinion.  Digesting some of the mock draft types and talking head types they don't all unifomly agree with this point.  Some do.  Not everyone.  So playing off of that point it feels presumptous for me to think Peters 100% will see it the same way I do.

 

If i had to sum the why these guys are franchise QBs and the best of the three reading the various narratives from these draftniks.

 

A.  Maye.  Can make all the throws.  Has the size to hold up in the NFL.  Has nice mobility.  The most wow throws in the mix.  He's just 21.  You can fix his mechanical issues.  Looks like he has some Herbert and Allen in his play.

 

B.  Daniels.  Isn't Lamar Jackson as a runner but might be the next best thing and he can throw better than him.  So imagine a lesser runner than Lamar yet a very good one but better passer

 

C. McCarthy.  Just 21.  Super smart.  High intangibles -- special on that front.  Can make all the throws even though he wasn't asked to do it in college.   He's the exampe of that high intangible QB who exceeds expectations in the pros -- Purdy or Cousins with wheels.

 

Personally, I think all three things are possible.   I'd bet most on A.  But I am not in the crowd here who finds it inconceivable that anyone can see B or even C as possible.  I'd bet on all three but am the most down on McCarthy because I don't think his ceiling is as high but he might have the highest floor of the three.

Edited April 6 by Skinsinparadise

[Idaho fan]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Mariota wasn't really a plan or part of any sort of plan. They went after Darnold first.

 

Also, we need to stop with the "Mariota means Daniels because similar playstyle" argument. Mariota is actually closer to Maye's style of play than Daniels.

I have to disagree.   They brought Mariota in thus he most definitely is part of some plan regardless of who they were going after prior to it.  He at the very least is penciled in as the #2.  Depending on what happens in the draft he may be the starter day one.  Every player has to be some part of a plan in my mind otherwise why would they be here?
 

I never said Mariota means Daniels because of play style.  In my opinion I think they lean Daniels because it’s who they want and because Maye isn’t ready to start day one (by most accounts).  If they are leaning Maye I just dont understand the choice of Mariota to be the starting QB.  
 

I say all this fully realizing I have no idea what they are thinking and have no actual ability in evaluating college quarterbacks.  Just my two cents.  

[HTTRDynasty]

Coaches are wild, man.  Not surprising very few of them are successful at talent evaluation (Belichick being the most obvious example).  Which is why I don’t care much when I hear about who coaches have ranked higher in the Maye vs Daniels discussion. 
 

 

Edited April 6 by HTTRDynasty

[DiscoBob]

11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Coaches are wild, man.  Not surprising very few of them are successful at talent evaluation (Belichick being the most obvious example).  Which is why I don’t care much when I hear about who coaches have ranked higher in the Maye vs Daniels discussion. 
 

 

 

If we could Frankenstein Penix's upper body on Daniels lower body.... I'm in

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched him in the 80s. never felt he was elite.  But to each their own on that.  I do think he had one great season, 1983.  Outside of that, good QB IMO.

Disagree, he has several elite years, depending upon how you think of elite (for me it's inside the top 10, typically closer to 1st-5th, then 10th), and he had those kind of years in '79, '82, '83, and '84 while '78-'81 were all above average seasons (well, maybe not '78). 

 

I think two things make it hard to remember it that way. Part of it is the dip in '80-'81 and how short the run was, and part of it was the league was moving on from the great QB's of the '60's and '70's and not many great QB's were developed in the mid to late 70s that had staying power. Just Dan Fouts, Ken Anderson, Bert Jones, Bartkowski, Danny White of course Montana, and then a lower tier of Sipes, and Grogan's and Zorn's who nobody remembers as great but typically operated inside the top 10 to top 20. It reminds me of other hidden dips at the position like the 1990s when we went a whole decade just missing horribly on virtually all the elite QB prospects:

'90: George and Ware busts

'91: McGuire and Marinovich busts

'92: Klinger Bust

'93: Bledsoe hits, Mirer busts

'94: Shuler and DIlfer busts

'95: Collins meh's, McNair meh/hits

'96: None

'97: Druckenmiller busts

'98: Manning hits, Leaf Busts

'99: Couch, Smith, and McNown bust, McNabb hits, Culpepper meh/hits

 

That both reminds me of how the 70's gifted us crap QB play too with a litany of busts, and it also explains why there was a dip in the league after Elway retired: the 90's QB hits were mostly day 2/day 3 guys, and then Bledsoe, Manning and McNabb in round 1. You got home runs QB hits on only 3/19. The decade was just absolute horse ---- in terms of QB's. 

 

For me when I look at the era Theismann played in '77-'85, it was an era where the great QB's of the 50's/60's draft classes retired, and there were only a handful of guys that came in and could hold their collective jocks. How many HOF QB's were there in their 20's in the late 70s? Dan Fouts? Who else? Basically until Montana and White hit in 1980-1981, and then the '83 class came in, there was a wasteland at QB, where there were HOF's retiring, and good but not great guys like Bert Jones and Ken Anderson, and not much else. That's part of the reason Theismann doesn't look great, because it was an era of largely mediocre QB's and he was one of the few who was actually good, but it doesn't look good because the stats at the time looking nothing like those from today, and we remember him as just solid to good other than the two God Mode years (maybe 2.5) circa '82-'84, but the truth is, '78-'84, he was in the top half of the league and often in the top 75th-95th percentile. Kind of that Matt Ryan sort of zone. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As Adam Peters more or less said if anyone has figured out the formula call him, he will hire that person. Clearly no one cracked the code.

 

I don't agree with all of those breakdowns but i like the mindset behind it all -- its a good method to break it down IMO -- % stud, % top 15 and above, etc, I like the thinking. 

I'm sure my #'s don't match a similar post I made 6 weeks or so ago lol, I disagree w/me at times too. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Interesting (if true) given how long Elway and GMAP worked together in Denver. 
 

 

[Dah-Dee]

Favorable film breakdown on Drake Maye by Patriots.com reporter Lazar:

 

 

 

My RG3-PTSD-related most-unfavorite part of this clip is where Lazar talks about UNC often using the "pistol" formation *shudder*

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

🚩🚩🚩

 

 

 

Edited April 6 by HTTRDynasty

[HoggLife]

[Kalu44]

There is so much posturing going on in the media right now, it’s comical. These rumors and “sources” are probably 50% misdirection from teams to get their targeted guy to fall to them. The only thing that matters is the Skins FO and talent evaluators, the rest is just noise. 

[HoggLife]

1 minute ago, Kalu44 said:

There is so much posturing going on in the media right now, it’s comical. These rumors and “sources” are probably 50% misdirection from teams to get their targeted guy to fall to them. The only thing that matters is the Skins FO and talent evaluators, the rest is just noise. 

No one will know till daft day when #2 is on the clock and we see who gets the phone call. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, HoggLife said:

No one will know till daft day when #2 is on the clock and we see who gets the phone call. 

Guess you should have read the whole page before posting. Look two posts above yours. It’s a done deal and the cat is out of the bag.

[HoggLife]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Guess you should have read the whole page before posting. Look two posts above yours. It’s a done deal and the cat is out of the bag.

I posted that lol

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

I posted that lol

I have no idea what’s going on right now.

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The way I see it

 

Maye has a good shot to be Herbert.

 

Daniels has a shot but lesser shot to be Lamar Jackson.

 

McCarthy has a strong shot to be Alex Smith

 

None of this is slam dunk.  They could all bust of course.

 

I think Daniels is more likely of the three to bust.

 

But i think where i am different than some here is i don't look at this opinion as fact.  It's opinion.  Digesting some of the mock draft types and talking head types they don't all unifomly agree with this point.  Some do.  Not everyone.  So playing off of that point it feels presumptous for me to think Peters 100% will see it the same way I do.

 

If i had to sum the why these guys are franchise QBs and the best of the three reading the various narratives from these draftniks.

 

A.  Maye.  Can make all the throws.  Has the size to hold up in the NFL.  Has nice mobility.  The most wow throws in the mix.  He's just 21.  You can fix his mechanical issues.  Looks like he has some Herbert and Allen in his play.

 

B.  Daniels.  Isn't Lamar Jackson as a runner but might be the next best thing and he can throw better than him.  So imagine a lesser runner than Lamar yet a very good one but better passer

 

C. McCarthy.  Just 21.  Super smart.  High intangibles -- special on that front.  Can make all the throws even though he wasn't asked to do it in college.   He's the exampe of that high intangible QB who exceeds expectations in the pros -- Purdy or Cousins with wheels.

 

Personally, I think all three things are possible.   I'd bet most on A.  But I am not in the crowd here who finds it inconceivable that anyone can see B or even C as possible.  I'd bet on all three but am the most down on McCarthy because I don't think his ceiling is as high but he might have the highest floor of the three.

I agree with all you posted. I'd rather with Maye at two although I can see coach perspective suggestions leaning to the guy that poses the most threat to the D which would be Daniels.

The only way I see them going JJ is if there is a trade that would not take the team past selection 4. (yes I know, that trade almost not possible but that doesn't matter). They must come out of this with one of these 3.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

The only way I see them going JJ is if there is a trade that would not take the team past selection 4. (yes I know, that trade almost not possible but that doesn't matter). They must come out of this with one of these 3.

 

Even harder to see a trade down happen at pick 2 in a draft w/ 3 blue chip prospects.

Pick #3 is the pressure point to get into the party.

 

I agree that is exceedingly unlikely we move off the spot and I got chances of us getting JJ in the Caleb range.

 

 

I just need the Pats to hold their water and take the 3rd guy so the Giants don't get the oppo to. I'm pretty sure New England will but a Godfather deal is a Godfather deal.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Even harder to see a trade down happen at pick 2 in a draft w/ 3 blue chip prospects.

Pick #3 is the pressure point to get into the party.

 

I agree that is exceedingly unlikely we move off the spot and I got chances of us getting JJ in the Caleb range.

 

 

I just need the Pats to hold their water and take the 3rd guy so the Giants don't get the oppo to. I'm pretty sure New England will but a Godfather deal is a Godfather deal.

 

Feel like maybe that's part of why people are trying to push JJ up there and you're forgetting MHJ is also highly touted and 4 and 5 both want WRs.  This is especially true if we actually want Daniels cause like the Pats are into Maye and the Vikings are into Maye and JJ.

 

So like we get a call from the Chargers at five.  They want MHJ and want to jump the Cards.  So we trade down to five, then the Pats take Maye.  The Cards might trade out but the teams most likely to be interested in that spot seem to be into JJ

 

Of course the best thing if we trade would be to the Cards.  Then the Pats take Maye and we take Daniels

Edited April 6 by MrJL

[Warhead36]

Im completely off Daniels now and am actually warming up to Mccarthy as QB3

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[clskinsfan]

11 hours ago, DiscoBob said:

 

If we could Frankenstein Penix's upper body on Daniels lower body.... I'm in

Thing is Penix's busted up lower body turned him into the passer he is right now. He was forced to become a pocket passer. And he is a damn good one. I was literally shocked when I saw he ran a 4.4 at his pro day. 

11 hours ago, Kalu44 said:

There is so much posturing going on in the media right now

It's not just the media. It is the Cammanders as well. Which I dont really understand. There is no reason to really hide what they are planning. Unless they think they might have a legit shot at Caleb. But I dont see that happening. 

8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Im completely off Daniels now and am actually warming up to Mccarthy as QB3

I am not there. Daniels legs are lethal. The most lethal QB legs since Jackson for sure imo. There is value there. 

[actorguy1]

 

 

[FuriousD]

3 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

'90: George and Ware busts

'91: McGuire and Marinovich busts

'92: Klinger Bust

'93: Bledsoe hits, Mirer busts

'94: Shuler and DIlfer busts

'95: Collins meh's, McNair meh/hits

'96: None

'97: Druckenmiller busts

'98: Manning hits, Leaf Busts

'99: Couch, Smith, and McNown bust, McNabb hits, Culpepper meh/hits

 

Dilfer

yeah, it wasn’t an all-pro career but the man has a superbowl ring. Isn’t that the ultimate measure of success in this game? Or is just one ring not worth the time?

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

Dilfer

yeah, it wasn’t an all-pro career but the man has a superbowl ring. Isn’t that the ultimate measure of success in this game? Or is just one ring not worth the time?

 

Dilfer had next to nothing to do with getting to or winning that SB. He threw for 12 TDs and 11 INTs that season for ****s sake. And he was so awesome that the Ravens immediately let him go after winning a SB with him as their QB.