The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[dyst]

Hopefully Marcus surprises me, but I would be a tad better if we had a different back-up.

[ExoDus84]

9 minutes ago, dyst said:

Hopefully Marcus surprises me, but I would be a tad better if we had a different back-up.

 

I would have preferred to keep Brissett as well. I'm not very high on Mariotta.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

 

True but it doesn't explain why he lost the backup role to Sam darnold.

That to me was far more damning than being benched for purdy who had shown he could run Shanahans system the way he wanted it run.

 

Prospects make bad vet back up QBs.  Smart teams don't keep two prospects at first and second string.  They don't jerk around their starters and sit the fence with them.  They don't invite QB controversies.  They make long term plans and establish clear roles and hierarchies in their QB rooms.

 

Every QB room needs a vet in either the first or second string role.

[Conn]

8 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

What it comes down to is if Washington does select a QB at #2, whether it is Maye or Daniels, they will be getting an excellent prospect, but one that has had problems in their game and isn't a home run hit coming out of the gate. 
 

 

Even the most optimistic people understand this, it’s the case with 99.8% of even blue chip QB prospects. Even the best of the best blue chip prospects in the modern era, people had concerns. People had concerns with Luck. They certainly did with Lawrence and Burrow. They did with Stafford, with Bradford before all these guys. They currently do with Caleb Williams. There is no such thing as a guaranteed home run, no such thing as a prospect without problems or flaws in their game. 
 

We are extremely lucky to be drafting where we are, in the QB crop we are, despite all that. It’s the best we could ever reasonably hope for, you do not get access to better QB prospects than this almost ever. For people to be actually afraid to take a guy, for example, like Maye—and nitpicking for any flaw imaginable and using it as a reason to want to trade down, or out, or whatever because they’re waiting for the perfect prospect—it’s incredibly shortsighted and greedy. You aren’t drafting at #1 overall probably ever (and there isn’t usually a “perfect” prospect there either) and you aren’t doing better than this with prospects available at #2 overall. 
 

It’s okay to be hopeful and satisfied with our choices. We’re extremely lucky to have them. Other fanbases are desperately concocting scenarios where they could trade their franchise’s entire future to come up and have the rare fortune of being able to draft one of the dudes that picky people here are holding their nose about—and we get to do it from our natural spot at 2. That’s nearly a miracle, to have that happen at the same time we turnover everything else about the franchise. 

[Conn]

4 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

First, I wanted Drake Maye really bad.  Then I wanted Jayden Daniels really bad.  Now I don't know which QB I want.  I'm starting to wonder if either will be successful in the NFL, because the focus seems to be on what they can't do.  Not just here, but by analysts and talking heads.  There seems to be so much not to like about both QBs.  At this point, I will be happy with whoever Washington selects.  I just hope they make the right decision...that the guy they choose will be a franchise QB.

That’s just the nature of draft coverage when you’ve been talking about the same dudes for so long. It’s ****ing stupid. We’re extremely lucky to be picking from these guys but the coverage is all negativity from our POV…meanwhile other less fortunate franchises are supposed to be excited about the mere possibility of trading up, and trading their entire futures, for one of these same guys. Again, it’s stupid. Be excited. 

[Warhead36]

10 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

 

We are extremely lucky to be drafting where we are, in the QB crop we are, despite all that. It’s the best we could ever reasonably hope for, you do not get access to better QB prospects than this almost ever. For people to be actually afraid to take a guy, for example, like Maye—and nitpicking for any flaw imaginable and using it as a reason to want to trade down, or out, or whatever because they’re waiting for the perfect prospect—it’s incredibly shortsighted and greedy. You aren’t drafting at #1 overall probably ever (and there isn’t usually a “perfect” prospect there either) and you aren’t doing better than this with prospects available at #2 overall. 
 

This is what I don't get either. If you're not a fan of prospects like Maye or Daniels then what the heck are you waiting for? You're basically saying you wanna trade down now so that in 3 years you might be able to trade up for someone as good as either of these guys. I'd rather take the bird in hand now. There simply is no plan without a QB.

[mac8887]

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

No right or wrong answer here. You learn with reps - but I can certainly see the logic of sitting someone. It might depend what we are able/unable to do at OT. 
 

I highly, highly doubt that we have the patience as a fan base though to sit through Mariota behind an iffy line for a season. It won’t be pretty. 

After years of ineptitude, I’d be perfectly ok watching Mariota start the season if it’s in the best interest of grooming our young qb. Even if it’s only for a few games while we get our rookie LT acclimated. Let Mariota take the punishment while our newly built o line gels. But if they feel the rookie qb is ready, then by all means, send him out there and let him learn on the go

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

It would make sense that Daniels would shoot up more during the last few months. This is when coaches start to get involved and Daniels is the type of guy that coaches would like more than scouts/FO types. He's an athletic run first QB that is a pain in the butt to gameplan against, so its reasonable for coaches to see that and say "I WANT THAT", not worrying about things like long term health or potential because typically coaches are more short sighted.

 

Even Dan Quinn described Daniels as "game changer".

 

I just don't necessarily agree that this is the case. The coaches watch tons of film of these prospects too.

 

Coaches may very well look at his film and say "This guy can be electric and could be a nightmare to game plan against, but since he rarely looks to throw after breaking the pocket and instead usually just puts his eyes down and run, he's likely going to get hit a lot more, which means more chance of injury. I'm also concerned about him often only throwing to guys after they're open. If we can't change that in the NFL it's going to lead to lots of turnovers because guys simply don't get that open in this league. And I don't like turnovers"

 

I think coaches WILL worry about health and some things longer term. What good is an athletic freak QB on your bench or sitting at home in a sling or concussion protocol? Coaches may be a little more short-sighted than GMs, etc., but they're not myopic nor stupid.

 

And ok, DQ called him a game changer when given about 5 seconds to come up with a random thing to describe each of the top QBs. It's not like he sat there and gave a well thought out speech about it. 

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Throughout history, elite dual-threat quarterbacks have consistently elevated the performance of their offensive lines in the NFL. This impact extends beyond just passing, as they also significantly influence the effectiveness of the run game. Offensive linemen thrive on running the football and pass blocking in favorable situations.

 

An offense built around a dual-threat quarterback, especially in an RPO system, where the quarterback can both run and make accurate throws, even at a below-average level, can start impacting wins from day one.
 

I'm not suggesting that this approach is foolproof or that there isn't a ceiling for this type of quarterback if they fail to continue developing. However, if Daniel's were the pick, on day one, I would anticipate Washington to emerge as a top 5 rushing offense, ranking within the top 5-10 in time of possession, and be in the top 10 for turnover differential. 
 

He also could get injured week one. Roll the dice for the immediate high floor a elite ceiling potential. 

Those who support Daniel's genuinely care about your perspective and are open to welcoming those who are leaning 60-40 towards him. Join us on the Daniel's side, where we believe in the potential for success and growth.

 

 

You realize that constantly repeating stuff like "throughout history, elite dual threat QBs had consistently" blah blah blah doesn't make it so, right?

 

There are basically 3 true "elite dual threat" QBs as you'd describe them. Lamar, Murray, and Anthony Richardson. Maybe Hurts, but Hurts ran a 4.55 so he's too slow for your standards.

 

Lamar has won nothing. He chokes in big games, and if his running threat is even partially neutralized, he's mostly becomes a JAG QB. Anthony Richardson has played in 4 games in his entire career and already has a concussion and an AC joint tear (both sustained while running). Murray has also been hurt multiple times now, has done nothing of note, and is mostly seen as mediocre.

 

Hurts was considered elite for a year but has now come back down to earth.

 

There's a reason that the most truly successful QBs and SB winners are the ones who are pocket passers first, but who can scramble and extend if need be, not essentially running backs who sometimes pass.

 

You live in a fantasy land.

Edited March 24 by mistertim

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

After years of ineptitude, I’d be perfectly ok watching Mariota start the season if it’s in the best interest of grooming our young qb. Even if it’s only for a few games while we get our rookie LT acclimated. Let Mariota take the punishment while our newly built o line gels. But if they feel the rookie qb is ready, then by all means, send him out there and let him learn on the go

I believe you - and you’d be right. But it Mariota struggles, we are not moving the ball and there is a new shinny toy still in its wrapper on the bench you know what the posts on here would all be about. 

[Est.1974]

36 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

After years of ineptitude, I’d be perfectly ok watching Mariota start the season if it’s in the best interest of grooming our young qb. Even if it’s only for a few games while we get our rookie LT acclimated. Let Mariota take the punishment while our newly built o line gels. But if they feel the rookie qb is ready, then by all means, send him out there and let him learn on the go

I don’t think Bobby Wagner has come here to lose. We’re rolling week one.

[redskinss]

I don't know if it's my own biases at play here but why does it feel like the whole world wants us to pass on Maye so that others can get him.

The giants and Vikings are two teams reported to have great interest in him.

 

This feels like a huge smear campaign designed to get us to pass on him so they can pounce, because if they don't get us to pass they have no chance, that's the first hurdle.

I wish i was seeing more reports of teams desperately wanting us to pass on daniels so they can trade their future to the patriots for a chance at him, but it seems they're all the other way around.

 

[mac8887]

9 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I believe you - and you’d be right. But it Mariota struggles, we are not moving the ball and there is a new shinny toy still in its wrapper on the bench you know what the posts on here would all be about. 

Yep, it’ll be real hard for the coaches to convince the fanbase that sitting the rook would be a good idea. I’d be fine with it, but I know I’m an outlier. The only thing that would truly upset me is if they start the rook and then bench him do to poor play. I was ok with Sam being benched because we knew at that time that he was not the long term answer. But even if the rookie struggles, I hope they just let him work through it. 

[Jumbo]

One of my fave talking heads is Peter Schrager. I like him for a variety of reasons.

 

Most importantly of course, for his knowledge, connections, and analytical capabilities on all college and pro football fronts. But while remaining factual, rational, and credible he also has to generate good TV. I think that plays a role 

 

Fri morning he did a great set up of choosing between JD and, not Maye or even Williams, but JJ McCarthy in a "which is your best pick."

 

In the process, even framed within the context of trying to make good TV in a well worn subject, he did make a solid fact based and rational case for why you could very legitimately prefer JJ.

 

I don't have a clip to share, but it starts about 5 mins into Fridays show. The reason I bring it up is to just emphasize the reality that there are no cases in the top  5-7 seven QBs that offer shut down arguments for who should go after Williams.

 

Btw, I find a lot of the case for JJ to go 2-4 quite well argued by some solid analysts though I'm still in that mainstream of Maye and Daniels after Caleb. 

 

Added: forgot to include that right after shrags made his case, mccourty challenged it competently, if simplistically.

 

Point still being it's all up in the air until they're in the league for a few seasons. Stay humble. 😛

[Est.1974]

27 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

In the process, even framed within the context of trying to make good TV in a well worn subject, he did make a solid fact based and rational case for why you could very legitimately prefer JJ.

 

I don't have a clip to share, but it starts about 5 mins into Fridays show. The reason I bring it up is to just emphasize the reality that there are no cases in the top  5-7 seven QBs that offer shut down arguments for who should go after Williams.

Totally agree….

[Jumbo]

Sort of a follow up to my last post, and focused on the use of college w/l records and with somewhat less emphasis but still considering strength of respective conference, gmfb had a list of the six "winningest" college QBs and how they did on the NFL. It wasn't pretty.

 

Dalton was the big kahuna out the group, and Riddick being a more recent one. On the other end, the list of very successful NFL QBs, most glaringly Mahomes, that had average or shaky college records (kirk there too) was notably more impressive. Wheeeee.

[Command The 414]

17 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Sort of a follow up to my last post, and focused on the use of college w/l records and with somewhat less emphasis but still considering strength of respective conference, gmfb had a list of the six "winningest" college QBs and how they did on the NFL. It wasn't pretty.

 

Dalton was the big kahuna out the group, and Riddick being a more recent one. On the other end, the list of very successful NFL QBs, most glaringly Mahomes, that had average or shaky college records (kirk there too) was notably more impressive. Wheeeee.

Mark Schlereth on his podcast as mentioned the same thing… nobody in their right mind would have imagined or thought  Mahomes was going to be what he is today… JJ isnt pretty, he isn’t shiny, he isn’t fast, he does nothing to garner a 15second TikTok but what JJ does do is everything right and good and he’s been nothing short of successful… all the hype is on the 3 big guys and after that nothing from the press… but I freaking bet there are a lot of teams wanting JJ McCarthy over both Maye and Daniels…if JJ goes to the right team this season he’s going to surprise a lot of ppl (specially ppl on this board imho)

Edited March 24 by Command The 414

[Chump Bailey]

9 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

but I freaking bet there are a lot of teams wanting JJ McCarthy over both Maye and Daniels…if JJ goes to the right team this season he’s going to surprise a lot of ppl (specially ppl on this board imho)

 

I think so too.

[redskinss]

23 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

nobody in their right mind would have imagined or thought  Mahomes was going to be what he is today…

Apparently kliff kingsbury did.

According to the reports he was basically the only one who really tried hard to recruit him to play football.

[FootballZombie]

I have not seen a single JJ pass nor do I plan to. Option aint even on my radar.

 

Not his fault but yeah, I'm not spending my time on something that is extremely unlikely to happen.

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, redskinss said:

I don't know if it's my own biases at play here but why does it feel like the whole world wants us to pass on Maye so that others can get him.

The giants and Vikings are two teams reported to have great interest in him.

 

This feels like a huge smear campaign designed to get us to pass on him so they can pounce, because if they don't get us to pass they have no chance, that's the first hurdle.

I wish i was seeing more reports of teams desperately wanting us to pass on daniels so they can trade their future to the patriots for a chance at him, but it seems they're all the other way around.

 

The media can't grasp the idea of a potential superstar QB in Washington and there is ALWAYS a desire for those stars to end up in NY.

 

I also do believe the Giants are engaging in massive psy op campaign to get someone to trade up for QB4 so they can snag Nabors, assuming they can't get into position for Maye.

[Jumbo]

Just because "why not"😄

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10114238-nfl-rumors-drake-mayes-upside-called-outrageous-by-scouts-before-nfl-draft-2024

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Good. I’m glad that common sense has prevailed, that everyone has accepted Drake Maye is the better player and that he’s going to be the pick. No hard feelings and I’m just glad that we can put all this silliness behind us and start thinking about what to do with our other pics.
 

Mods, go ahead and close the thread…

Edited March 24 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[illone]

This can be filed in the “no ****, sherlock” section.