The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

Jordan Love did not start in the NFL until he was 24. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, MartinC said:

In many ways the worst outcome is not drafting a Todd Blackledge or a Tony Eason. 

 

Its drafting a Ken O'Brien. A guy who is a perfectly serviceable QB, heck a good QB. A guy who has great games and good season but never gets you anywhere close to a chance at a Supper Bowl.

 

Agree, it keeps you in QB purgatory for longer because you have enough teases to keep the ride going for a bit longer ala the ride here with Jason Campbell.

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Ok so here's a question.

 

Lets say Peters and them LOVE Drake Maye's upside. They take him but they agree with Simms, Orlovksy and the rest that he needs to sit so they bring back Jacoby and start him for a season, maybe two. How do you feel? 

 

Absolutely fine. If they want to go with a red shirt year that is OK with me. I highly doubt they do though, because the pressure to start a guy drafted that high is just too great.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Because of how much he has played and his age, Daniels would have to start immediately wherever he goes. Thats why I kind of think a plug and play situation like Atlanta or Minnesota or Vegas would probably be likely trade up partners. 

Might sound crazy and crazier things have been said but I think the Raiders will bid to the bitter end to get Daniels at #1.  Other than Kliff who is our OC, HC Antonio Pierce was a DC and defensive coach at Arizona State for two years with JD.  He knows him well too.  I hope they land Daniels. Yes, I prefer Maye over Daniels but Daniels is my #2.  Raider's OC Luke Getsy didn't have the talent to work in a QB Field like he does with JD and Getsy didn't have the weapons at Chicago.   

[ThatNFLChick]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Might sound crazy and crazier things have been said but I think the Raiders will bid to the bitter end to get Daniels at #1.  Other than Kliff who is our OC, HC Antonio Pierce was a DC and defensive coach at Arizona State for two years with JD.  He knows him well too.  I hope they land Daniels. Yes, I prefer Maye over Daniels but Daniels is my #2.  Raider's OC Luke Getsy didn't have the talent to work in a QB Field like he does with JD and Getsy didn't have the weapons at Chicago.   

 

I don't think its just up to Antonio but I also don't know if a team will want to trade down that far. Someone might be much more willing to go to 8 than go outside of the top 10 where the Raiders are

[Jumbo]

37 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Ok so here's a question.

 

Lets say Peters and them LOVE Drake Maye's upside. They take him but they agree with Simms, Orlovksy and the rest that he needs to sit so they bring back Jacoby and start him for a season, maybe two. How do you feel? 

 

 

I have to reject the what if. My take is whoever they pick at #2 is going to start, period. Given Harris' traits as a pro sports team owner and businessman in general starting Jacoby would be a form of malpractice. But then I also disagree with the idea that Maye needs to be sat for a year. I get the argument, but think it's weak and I don't see anyone this years who's drafting a QB in the top five is going to sit him for a year.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't think its just up to Antonio but I also don't know if a team will want to trade down that far. Someone might be much more willing to go to 8 than go outside of the top 10 where the Raiders are

Very true.  It's very possible to that Chicago will not trade Caleb Williams too and select him.  I would like to see JD get a fair shake with a team the loves him and Pierce per when I listened to Pivot podcast crew, Clark said that AP loved JD.  We shall see what happens.  Hey, again if Peters falls in love with JD and we take him, let's get it!    

[FootballZombie]

8 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Raider's OC Luke Getsy didn't have the talent to work in a QB Field like he does with JD and Getsy didn't have the weapons at Chicago.

 

Getsy wont have the talent to work with in Vegas either if they give up what they have to give up to move high enough to select JD.

 

 

You looking at a DJ Moore plus premium pics situation like Carolina gave up for Young, leaving the team a barren wasteland of offensive talent

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Jordan Love did not start in the NFL until he was 24. 

And that’s extremely abnormal. If we end up with a HOF QB over the next 15 years then I think I’ll accept the next QB sitting until they’re 24, sure. 

[Warhead36]

Highly drafted QBs don't sit unless you have an established starter in place already. Love sat behind a future HOF-er and Mahomes sat behind an above average quality QB.

 

And I don't think any of the Big 3 are that raw that they need to sit. Ultimately you get better by playing.

[skinsfan66]

9 minutes ago, MartinC said:

In many ways the worst outcome is not drafting a Todd Blackledge or a Tony Eason. 

 

Its drafting a Ken O'Brien. A guy who is a perfectly serviceable QB, heck a good QB. A guy who has great games and good season but never gets you anywhere close to a chance at a Supper Bowl.

Jim Kelly lost 4 S.B.'s, Marino never made a S.B. John Elway could not win a S.B. till Terrell Davis carried the team to victory in his first win. Ken O'Brien was as good as Kelly I believe. It takes more than then just a great QB to win a S.B. most of the time.  

[ThatNFLChick]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Highly drafted QBs don't sit unless you have an established starter in place already. Love sat behind a future HOF-er and Mahomes sat behind an above average quality QB.

 

And I don't think any of the Big 3 are that raw that they need to sit. Ultimately you get better by playing.

 

I mean, but the question is...should they have?

 

Does Bryce Young have a better 1st season if they let him sit behind Andy Dalton for a season?

 

Would Justin Fields been better off sitting behind Dalton?

 

Would Zach Wilson have been better if he didn't have to start right away?

 

Of course there are other examples like Stroud, Herbert and Jackson but those haven't been the norm 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I mean, but the question is...should they have?

 

Does Bryce Young have a better 1st season if they let him sit behind Andy Dalton for a season?

 

Would Justin Fields been better off sitting behind Dalton?

 

Would Zach Wilson have been better if he didn't have to start right away?

 

Of course there are other examples like Stroud, Herbert and Jackson but those haven't been the norm 

Maybe. Every QB is different. I think Young was good enough to play early on, but the team around him just sucked. Fields could have played early on if the scheme was super dumbed down(think RG3 2012 offense). Wilson would probably suck no matter what.

[wit33]

Elite dual-threat quarterbacks often make an immediate impact, showcasing their ground skills from the first game of their rookie contract. While this is a significant advantage, the downside lies in the increased risk of injuries. Game 1, Daniels appears poised to match the impact of quarterbacks ranked 8-25. 
 

However, Drake Maye's progress depends on mastering the playbook and outsmarting quarterbacks like Kirk Cousins before stepping into competition with the elite. In contrast, Jalen Hurts faced challenges with pocket passing, throws outside the hashes, and reading the field. Despite these difficulties, he still competed, and his running prowess played a significant role in outperforming Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl.

 

I'm not dismissing Drake Maye, but from my layman perspective, he doesn't seem to offer an immediate advantage on day one. The key for him lies in becoming the smartest and fastest at reading the field, which, while interesting and can happen, doesn't inspire much confidence in my view. 
 

Physical Freaks! This is the way!

[skinsfan66]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe. Every QB is different. I think Young was good enough to play early on, but the team around him just sucked. Fields could have played early on if the scheme was super dumbed down(think RG3 2012 offense). Wilson would probably suck no matter what.

If you throw all your chips in like Carolina or Wash. they need to start, ready or not. Fire the coach if it fails.

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, skinsfan66 said:

If you throw all your chips in like Carolina or Wash. they need to start, ready or not. Fire the coach if it fails.

 

Well thats exactly what Carolina did and everyone skewered Tepper for it lol. 

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Well thats exactly what Carolina did and everyone skewered Tepper for it lol. 

Bryce Young is a bust. You could sit him from the time he was drafted to any time until he’s on social security and he would still be a bust. 

[skinsfan66]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Well thats exactly what Carolina did and everyone skewered Tepper for it lol. 

I know, If they all got a year I am sure it would help but some are ready or have things in place like S.F. did with Purdy. I can see Maye sitting he is younger maybe not the other 2.

[MartinC]

28 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Jim Kelly lost 4 S.B.'s, Marino never made a S.B. John Elway could not win a S.B. till Terrell Davis carried the team to victory in his first win. Ken O'Brien was as good as Kelly I believe. It takes more than then just a great QB to win a S.B. most of the time.  

 

I wouldn't agree O'Brien was as good as Kelly. Ken only had two season when he threw for more than 20 TDs in a season (and he had 20 picks in one of those 20+ TD seasons)

 

But I totally agree it takes more than a QB. 

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Well thats exactly what Carolina did and everyone skewered Tepper for it lol. 

CJ Stroud started the first game of his rookie season too.  Some do well; some don't.  Many reason for that.  Coaching, System. QB picking up the system and speed of game etc.. 

[DogofWar1]

The end goal of this operation is to get a franchise qb.

 

Draft our guy at 2, bring in Brissett, or roll with Howell.  If 2 is ready day 1, great.  If not, roll with vet.  Check in every 2 weeks on new guy's development.  If he needs a year, give him a year.

 

Daniels you probably "kick out of the house' so to speak around week 9.  He is 23 with 55 college starts.  You want to see what he's capable of this year imo.  He should be ready.

 

Maye you can wait around a bit longer.  He's 21.  He needs most or all of a year?  Give it to him.

[mh86]

56 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Jordan Love did not start in the NFL until he was 24. 

Jordan love had Aaron, Aaron had Brett. We currently have Sam Howell. Look, sitting a QB for the early part of the season has its benefits. It allows the rookie to see how the process goes and what to expect. Unfortunately, not every team drafting a young QB has the benefit of having a Favre or an Alex smith. That’s why most of the time they’re thrown to the wolves right away. Also, just because sitting them has worked (in very limited examples) doesn’t mean not sitting them doesn’t. The data pool is very limited and is probably tainted due to specific circumstances.

[skinsfan66]

Just now, MartinC said:

 

I wouldn't agree O'Brien was as good as Kelly. Ken only had two season when he threw for more than 20 TDs in a season (and he had 20 picks in one of those 20+ TD seasons)

 

But I totally agree it takes more than a QB. 

Dan Fouts is another Q.B. like Marino. They had talent to maybe not Def.  Just remember O'Brian being a really good QB and was going on memory. 

[Est.1974]

I think Howell is as good as toast. Rightly of wrongly, circumstances now dictate he needs to move on. 
 

I see no point considering Brissett either. Let him go compete somewhere.

 

Honestly, until Russell Wilson is acquired by another team, I still see a scenario where he comes here. He and Quinn as extremely close. We’ve already seen how Quinn connects with individuals from his past experiences in the league. 
 

And we need to draft a QB. Take your pick which one.

 

This ownership means business. They will heavily invest at the most important position. That means rookie and potentially a very highly regarded veteran. We aren’t going to piss the season away through lack of depth at QB……

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But its all good as far as I am concerned.   Will see what happens.  I do agree with the sentiment here that Josh sitting in on these QB meetings specifically highlights the importance of QB with this group.  Ditto Myers being there.  Myers' niche is understanding leadership.  Key quality of course with QBs. 

Agreed, going to be a very interesting few weeks ahead….

[DogofWar1]

I wonder if the calculus on Howell depends on who we draft as well as how they feel about Howell/Maye reuniting.

 

If they don't want Maye/Howell reuniting for whatever reason, maybe sign Brissett if they draft Maye.  Flip side, if you think the Maye/Howell dynamic will be positive, then maybe you keep Howell.

 

And then if you go Daniels, maybe you don't want to pay the premium for Brissett bc you plan to get Daniels starting by week 6, so you keep Howell and give him a chance to ball out before the trade deadline and you move him.