The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

 

Honestly, until Russell Wilson is acquired by another team, I still see a scenario where he comes here. He and Quinn as extremely close. We’ve already seen how Quinn connects with individuals from his past experiences in the league. 

 

I was listening last night to how close Quinn is with Pete Carroll including talking to him through this process.  Supposedly in recent years, according to multiple articles, Carroll soured on Wilson and that was part of the reason why they were willing to trade him, they can see his mobility among other things wasn't the same in practice.

 

 

Edited February 29 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was listening last night to how close Quinn is with Pete Carroll including talking to him through this process.  Supposedly in recent years, according to multiple articles, Carroll soured on Wilson and that was part of the reason why they were willing to trade him, they can see his mobility among other things wasn't the same in practice.

 

 

Agree, I don’t think he’s long term starter material now. However, when he gets cut, some team will literally get him on vet minimum for one season whilst DEN pay him his dues. Could be us, you never know. Likely depends on Wilson’s ambitions still….

[Riggo-toni]

Honestly I would feel safer having Wilson and drafting Marv Jr over Maye or Daniels... it's probably my paranoia knowing that we haven't drafted a winning QB in the first round since 1937.  I can't shake the feeling that we are drafting the next Daniel Jones or Trey Lance rather than Justin Herbert.

[Conn]

Just now, Riggo-toni said:

Honestly I would feel safer having Wilson and drafting Marv Jr over Maye or Daniels... it's probably my paranoia knowing that we haven't drafted a winning QB in the first round since 1937.  I can't shake the feeling that we are drafting the next Daniel Jones or Trey Lance rather than Justin Herbert.

Funny that you don’t have that paranoia towards us rolling out other teams’ washed up garbage heap ex-franchise QB’s instead of trying to draft our own. It’s a failure we’ve repeated over and over again in the modern era. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Agree, I don’t think he’s long term starter material now. However, when he gets cut, some team will literally get him on vet minimum for one season whilst DEN pay him his dues. Could be us, you never know. Likely depends on Wilson’s ambitions still….

 

Will see. I'd be surprised.   Recall different reports about Carroll and Wilson not getting along in their later years together.  Some that Wilson's teammates didn't like him -- as @wit33 among others noted.  And some that they didn't think he was the same QB anymore and were ready to move on.

 

So maybe as a backup if Wilson is willing to do that?  Years back I loved the idea of trading for Wilson but in retrospect i was wrong about that.

Edited February 29 by Skinsinparadise

[ILikeBilly2]

Thank you all for the great analysis on the QBs in the draft.  I have a favorite, like most of us.

But, I have been thinking more about our QB2 and how our current staff are planning for the QB room.

Here are my basic thoughts.  

1) (Fact) - We have a strong and diverse coaching staff with high levels of experience

2) (Fact) - There are multiple coaches on the offensive that have spent time coaching QBs

3) (Opinion) - Our coaches think they can get the best out of each player, if the player puts in the effort

4) (Opinion) - Every once in awhile, a team plays so poorly, the coach will decide it is best for the team not to bother reviewing the game film

5) (Opinion) - Last year's team quit somewhere near the middle of the season, including the coaches

6) (Opinion) - When watching Sam Howell's tape from last season, there is a good chance, the coaches will decide it is best to not bother reviewing the game file in games where the team and coaches have given up

7) (Fact) - After 10 games, Sam had completed 264 out of 397 passes (66.5%), had 17 TDs, 9 INTs and 2,783 yards.

😎8 ) (Opinion) - The above stats have Sam as a middle of the pack starting QB in the NFL.

 

Now, with a couple facts and my opinions laid out, here is what I think we will see before the draft.

If the coaches want a vet QB to mentor our new QB1, they will sign him in free agency before the draft occurs.

If this happens, I expect that Sam will be traded during the draft and we will easily get a 4th for him, but we are more likely to get a low third or better.

 

If we don't sign a vet QB before the draft, I expect us to keep Sam as our QB2.  

 

Personally, I think our coaches feel that there is a lot to like about Sam and his bad tape mostly occurred after the coaches quit.

I think the coaches feel they can be QB mentors and a vet is not needed in that roll. I also think that GMAP feels that if Sam kills it in the preseason and maybe wins a game or 2 during the season (if he has to play), then he will be worth even more next preseason.

 

Lastly, there was an interesting article in Sports Illustrated about Sam Howell which shows that what he was put through by our coaches (EB) was pretty unusual.  It shows that he is actually in very good company in his results.  Even if you aren't a fan, it will help you see what he did in a different light.

URL:  https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-sam-howell-made-history-starting-quarterback

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Edited February 29 by ILikeBilly2

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So maybe as a backup if Wilson is willing to do that?  Years back I loved the idea of trading for Wilson but in retrospect i was wrong about that.

The connection for me is Quinn/Wilson. But yes, will see.

[illone]

5 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

He’s there to tell Caleb look my ownership group has 10 billionaires including from sports like you want to become. Pull an Eli and tell that fossil 101 year old owner in Chicago you want no part of that organization. 

 

 

😂

 

Harris is just there to release the crusty white guy billionaire vibe and then Magic will close the deal.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

The connection for me is Quinn/Wilson. But yes, will see.

 

I think if Wilson is ready to be a backup am cool with it.  I do think Brissett is a better QB-backup at this stage of their careers.   An guessing Brissett though might be more expensive.  Will see.

 

But am also cool with Howell as a backup.  Wilson doesn't strike me as a be happy as a backup, groom a young QB type of a dude.  But you never know.

Edited February 29 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo-toni]

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

Funny that you don’t have that paranoia towards us rolling out other teams’ washed up garbage heap ex-franchise QB’s instead of trying to draft our own. It’s a failure we’ve repeated over and over again in the modern era. 

Another failed Vet QB doesn't cost more than a bad year, unless we do a ridiculous guaranteed money deal like Alex Smith. Quinn can't win more than 7 or 8 games anyway, but at least we'd have an all-pro WR after he gets fired.

[illone]

10 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Honestly I would feel safer having Wilson and drafting Marv Jr Nabers over Maye or Daniels... it's probably my paranoia knowing that we haven't drafted a winning QB in the first round since 1937.  I can't shake the feeling that we are drafting the next Daniel Jones or Trey Lance rather than Justin Herbert.

 

 

*Corrected*

 

🤓

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Another failed Vet QB doesn't cost more than a bad year, unless we do a ridiculous guaranteed money deal like Alex Smith. Quinn can't win more than 7 or 8 games anyway, but at least we'd have an all-pro WR after he gets fired.

 

Adding another discarded vet from another team at QB with no future while banking on our next top 10 player at a different spot would so the last 25 plus years. 

 

I'd rather swing and fail then shoot back to the old school familiar train of maybe every 4 years we can go 9-8 and sneak into the wildcard.

 

I'd rather go 4-13 and shoot back again in the draft, then be stuck back on the 7-10, 8-9, 9-8 hamster wheel 

 

 

Edited February 29 by Skinsinparadise

[WashingtonRedWolves]

11 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

😂

 

Harris is just there to release the crusty white guy billionaire vibe and then Magic will close the deal.

So we really thinkin Caleb pulls an Eli/finds some way to end up on this team? Or just jokes

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, ILikeBilly2 said:

Thank you all for the great analysis on the QBs in the draft.  I have a favorite, like most of us.

But, I have been thinking more about our QB2 and how our current staff are planning for the QB room.

Here are my basic thoughts.  

1) (Fact) - We have a strong and diverse coaching staff with high levels of experience

2) (Fact) - There are multiple coaches on the offensive that have spent time coaching QBs

3) (Opinion) - Our coaches think they can get the best out of each player, if the player puts in the effort

4) (Opinion) - Every once in awhile, a team plays so poorly, the coach will decide it is best for the team not to bother reviewing the game film

5) (Opinion) - Last year's team quit somewhere near the middle of the season, including the coaches

6) (Opinion) - When watching Sam Howell's tape from last season, there is a good chance, the coaches will decide it is best to not bother reviewing the game file in games where the team and coaches have given up

7) (Fact) - After 10 games, Sam had completed 264 out of 397 passes (66.5%), had 17 TDs, 9 INTs and 2,783 yards.

😎8 ) (Opinion) - The above stats have Sam as a middle of the pack starting QB in the NFL.

 

Now, with a couple facts and my opinions laid out, here is what I think we will see before the draft.

If the coaches want a vet QB to mentor our new QB1, they will sign him in free agency before the draft occurs.

If this happens, I expect that Sam will be traded during the draft and we will easily get a 4th for him, but we are more likely to get a low third or better.

 

If we don't sign a vet QB before the draft, I expect us to keep Sam as our QB2.  

 

Personally, I think our coaches feel that there is a lot to like about Sam and his bad tape mostly occurred after the coaches quit.

I think the coaches feel they can be QB mentors and a vet is not needed in that roll. I also think that GMAP feels that if Sam kills it in the preseason and maybe wins a game or 2 during the season (if he has to play), then he will be worth even more next preseason.

 

Lastly, there was an interesting article in Sports Illustrated about Sam Howell which shows that what he was put through by our coaches (EB) was pretty unusual.  It shows that he is actually in very good company in his results.  Even if you aren't a fan, it will help you see what he did in a different light.

URL:  https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-sam-howell-made-history-starting-quarterback

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I am good with Sam as #2.   If I am going with a veteran backup, I'd prefer a dude who is lauded as a great teammate like Brissett much more than a dude who isn't considered a good teammate according to some in Russell Wilson.  But i wouldnt hate Wilson on the bench on a minimum contract.  But IMO Howell is fine.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cool. I don't care.  You could see whatever you want.  I've debated some of these phantom people so I am not backing off like it was all in my imagination.  I can even name some of them if I felt like it 😉

Its literally a few pages back. There's an endless parade of "run it back with sam's, trade down, get that golden loom of picks" types, and hell, I am a golden loom guy, I just know when you have a blue chip QB pick in a blue chip QB draft, and you don't have a locked in franchise QB on your roster, its a no brainer to draft one, ergo, why I was so incensed we didn't go QB in 2020 or hell, 2004 for that matter. 

[kingdaddy]

31 minutes ago, ILikeBilly2 said:

Thank you all for the great analysis on the QBs in the draft.  I have a favorite, like most of us.

But, I have been thinking more about our QB2 and how our current staff are planning for the QB room.

Here are my basic thoughts.  

1) (Fact) - We have a strong and diverse coaching staff with high levels of experience

2) (Fact) - There are multiple coaches on the offensive that have spent time coaching QBs

3) (Opinion) - Our coaches think they can get the best out of each player, if the player puts in the effort

4) (Opinion) - Every once in awhile, a team plays so poorly, the coach will decide it is best for the team not to bother reviewing the game film

5) (Opinion) - Last year's team quit somewhere near the middle of the season, including the coaches

6) (Opinion) - When watching Sam Howell's tape from last season, there is a good chance, the coaches will decide it is best to not bother reviewing the game file in games where the team and coaches have given up

7) (Fact) - After 10 games, Sam had completed 264 out of 397 passes (66.5%), had 17 TDs, 9 INTs and 2,783 yards.

😎8 ) (Opinion) - The above stats have Sam as a middle of the pack starting QB in the NFL.

 

Now, with a couple facts and my opinions laid out, here is what I think we will see before the draft.

If the coaches want a vet QB to mentor our new QB1, they will sign him in free agency before the draft occurs.

If this happens, I expect that Sam will be traded during the draft and we will easily get a 4th for him, but we are more likely to get a low third or better.

 

If we don't sign a vet QB before the draft, I expect us to keep Sam as our QB2.  

 

Personally, I think our coaches feel that there is a lot to like about Sam and his bad tape mostly occurred after the coaches quit.

I think the coaches feel they can be QB mentors and a vet is not needed in that roll. I also think that GMAP feels that if Sam kills it in the preseason and maybe wins a game or 2 during the season (if he has to play), then he will be worth even more next preseason.

 

Lastly, there was an interesting article in Sports Illustrated about Sam Howell which shows that what he was put through by our coaches (EB) was pretty unusual.  It shows that he is actually in very good company in his results.  Even if you aren't a fan, it will help you see what he did in a different light.

URL:  https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-sam-howell-made-history-starting-quarterback

span widget

Outstanding post with great info....welcome.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Agree with JP's take on this one.

 

Tempest in a teapot.

 

 

 

I think the proper thing is to note it, to understand why it can be bad, and to note that a guy like Harris has owned other teams and not been a draft day meddler like Snyder, so there's actual evidence it's no big thing, but its worthy of note that it can be. Wait and see. I don't agree on the idea that it's no big deal, it is a problem, if it persists or carries consequences for draft day decision making. It isn't a problem if it doesn't impact things going forward in the latter sense. 

[illone]

5 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

So we really thinkin Caleb pulls an Eli/finds some way to end up on this team? Or just jokes

 

Both. 

 

i know @SoCalSkins from wayyy back, we met up at a game in AZ in 2005. I have pictures floating around here somewhere...

 

On a serious note, I definitely think anything is possible. Caleb is a unique talent and an even more unique personality. Most arent going to understand the guy, or think he is coming off a certain way and he isnt the type to defend himself in the media. 

 

Doing my best guess as to how I would handle myself in this situation, he is most likely sitting back and gathering as much information as possible before he makes a move. Eli isnt a fair comparison because his dad has NFL ties and was much more familiar with the people and the process. This is all new for Caleb and his family so they are doing their due diligence.

 

If something comes up that isn't to their liking after going through the process, then I think you will hear rumblings about them trying to manipulate the situation, but even then I think they will do their best to keep it out of the headlines.

 

in the end, this kid just wants to play football and win, and wants to put himself in the best possible position to do so.

 

Adding to the guesswork, I think if anyone can sell the kid on coming to Washington, it's Ervin "Magic" Johnson. Magic is definitely the wildcard in this situation. If he wasnt part of the ownership group I would have WAY less confidence in him coming here.

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am good with Sam as #2.   If I am going with a veteran backup, I'd prefer a dude who is lauded as a great teammate like Brissett much more than a dude who isn't considered a good teammate according to some in Russell Wilson.  But i wouldnt hate Wilson on the bench on a minimum contract.  But IMO Howell is fine.

I think RW ends up signing a one year deal.  Teams would be smart if they did.  

[illone]

Just now, RWJ said:

I think RW ends up signing a one year deal.  Teams would be smart if they did.  

 

This does bring up another interesting angle and question:

 

Would you rather start Russ Wilson or Sam Howell for one year, while the new rookie sits and learns?

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

How awesome would it be to land with Jefferson and Addison as your WR's and Hock as your TE. The running game is a bit more of a miss, but that's a dream come true scenario. 

[illone]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

How awesome would it be to land with Jefferson and Addison as your WR's and Hock as your TE. The running game is a bit more of a miss, but that's a dream come true scenario. 

 

It would be amazing for everyone involved!

 

And for the low low price of just three first rounders, two second rounders, and a third rounder, we can happily discuss making this a reality!

[WashingtonRedWolves]

2 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

How awesome would it be to land with Jefferson and Addison as your WR's and Hock as your TE. The running game is a bit more of a miss, but that's a dream come true scenario. 

I think they'd have to be giving up on of those pieces to move up for Daniels, and as a great as JJ is, he's about to get paid a stupid amount of money

[DogofWar1]

6 minutes ago, illone said:

 

This does bring up another interesting angle and question:

 

Would you rather start Russ Wilson or Sam Howell for one year, while the new rookie sits and learns?

 

 

Whoever Kliff thinks will run his offense better.

[ThatNFLChick]

Ian Rappaport just said on NFL Network he has heard that the Commanders and Patriots are already receiving calls from teams who want to trade up for a QB.