The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[mistertim]

So basically that's all 3 of the top QBs.

[Voice_of_Reason]

25 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think we’ll trade out if we can’t move up for Williams.

I disagree with this.  I think we’re picking Maye.  

[e16bball]

56 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

To your last point, look at the games that Maye lost while his team was more talented, can’t say the same about McCarthy except for maybe the playoffs last year, but that was against a team that made it to a national championship 

 

Yeah, I think we can say that about McCarthy’s one loss. TCU didn’t really belong on the field with the big kids, as we saw in that national championship game, and the primary reason they beat Michigan is because McCarthy put 14 points on the board for them via pick-6s.  
 

It actually sort of makes the point with McCarthy: as long as he wasn’t actively sabotaging them with major mistakes, Michigan won. They sidelined him for the entire 2nd half on the road against a top 10 team in PSU…and still won. He was absolutely awful the next week against UMD…still won. Terrible game against the Witherspoon/Quan Illini last year…still won. 

 

With Maye, if he played poorly, it was a guaranteed loss. UNC couldn’t win unless he carried them. In two years, they won one game (where he played the entirety) in which Maye had less than 294 combined passing/rushing yards. By comparison, McCarthy won twenty-two games over the last two seasons in which he had fewer than 294 combined passing/rushing yards.

 

In one of the losses I assume you’re referring to (Ga Tech 2023), Maye dropped a line of 17/25 for 310 yards with 2 TDs and 0 INTs (198.6 rating) — and for good measure, added in 58 rushing yards and another TD on the ground. That would have been easily one of the 3-4 best games of McCarthy’s career. But UNC still lost, 46-42. His defense yielded almost 650 yards. What else was he supposed to do? 

 

They were not playing the same game, and they were not asked to do the same things in order to win, which I think makes it very difficult to compare their W/L outcomes in any meaningful way.

The weird thing is that I’m actually higher on McCarthy than a significant majority of folks around here (and on the internet in general). If I was at 6 or 8 or 12, I’d give him a very hard look. No question about it. But I just don’t think it’s sound logic to try to compare McCarthy’s W/L record to other players as some sort of personal accomplishment. Not when his roster was so very stacked.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, mistertim said:

So basically that's all 3 of the top QBs.

People are going to assume this means Daniels and Keim had said out loud “don’t think that.”  
 

He wouldn’t say that unless he had a reason to. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Bram is 100% convinced the puck is Daniels or Williams.  He loves Williams. 
 

He almost doesn’t acknowledge Maye is a possibility for the Commanders at #2.
 

In other news, Bram is most likely going to be shocked he’s wrong at about 8:20 on draft day.  

 

Bram and Keim debated this weeks ago.    Bram thought Peters highlighting mobility means Maye is out.  Bram for whatever reason thinks Drake is a pure pocket guy.  Keim told him it doesn't rule out Maye at all and that Maye can move.  I gather Bram is still convinced Maye is like a Goff type pure pocket guy.

Edited February 27 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[WEARE1554]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I disagree with this.  I think we’re picking Maye.  

Trade back and take Nix.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Bram and Keim debated this weeks ago.    Bram thoght Peters highlighting mobility means Maye is out.  Bram for whatever reason thinks Drake is a pure pocket guy.  Keim told him it doesn't rule out Maye at all and that Maye can move.  I gather Bram is still convinced Maye is like a Goff type pure pocket guy.

He absolutely believes that.  Hes’s wrong.  
 

I like Bram.  But there are times he becomes an insufferable know it all jackass.  
 

This is one of those times. 

1 minute ago, WEARE1554 said:

Trade back and take Nix.

No.

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I think Penix would be a really good fit for what Payton likes to do. 

He followed it up by saying he like Howell as well. I mean everyone knows whats going to happen regardless of the spin. We are staying put and picking whichever QB we prefer. The writing is on the wall. 

Read the other day that Payton liked J.J. a lot, don't know if it is true?

[mistertim]

"Drake Maye is a pure pocket passer!"

 

* Maye runs for 1200 yards and 16 TDs during his two seasons *

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[The Consigliere]

55 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

That R2 QB was Drew Brees!

 

Also, the draft "haul" they (ATL) had to give up to move to #1 was #5, a 3rd round pick, a future 2nd and Tim Dwight. Good lord, times have changed!

 

"with the fifth pick, which they received from Atlanta along with the Falcons’ third-round pick this year, second-round pick next year and receiver Tim Dwight.

 

 

I remember. The Brees story is one of the weirdest sliding doors moments around. San Diego could have had Vick, got Brees instead, then Brees gets hurt while he still looks league average and not a world beater yet, Miami is ready to pull the trigger on Brees and coach Saban is all in, but the Dolphins docs won't sign off on the Brees medical, so Saban gets my former love affair, Culpepper instead, and the Saints get Brees. What happens to Alabama, College Football, the Chargers, the Saints, the Dolphins and hell even the Falcons if this plays out differently? It's well and truly rare that a decision at the 1.01 had as many long term effects as that 2001 1st overall selection did. Vick, Atlanta, Dog Fighting, San Diego, Norv Turner, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina and "Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job", Nick Saban, Miami, and Alabama and College Football. Holy ----. Just crazy to think about how many things turned on the decisions at the top of the '01 draft, and a random shoulder injury and disagreeing doctors a few years later. Do we even have a College Portal without Saban? Who knows. Literally everything imaginable turns on that, and nobody thinks about it. Crazy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

His emphasis on balance brings home why Bieiniemy among other reasons had no shot to remain here.  That's one of Keim's points on his last podcast which is Bieniemy can say he quit and wasn't fired but the bottom line is he had no shot to remain on this staff.

Edited February 27 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But, there is a good chance the Giants take a QB

I dont know why they would. They have literally zero weapons on that team. And they are stuck with Jones for the upcoming season. I think they go Nabers. 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Anyone know what the rules are as far as meeting with these guys? I know teams get 15 minutes with them at the Combine. But are there limitations on the amount of contact they can have with them after the Combine?

[DogofWar1]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

I dont know why they would. They have literally zero weapons on that team. And they are stuck with Jones for the upcoming season. I think they go Nabers. 

Not to mention 6 is kinda a dead zone for QBs unless you wanna reach on JJ.

 

You're gonna have all but one of Nabers, Odunze, Bowers, Fashanu, and Alt most likely.  Great weapons.

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, DogofWar1 said:

Not to mention 6 is kinda a dead zone for QBs unless you wanna reach on JJ.

 

You're gonna have all but one of Nabers, Odunze, Bowers, Fashanu, and Alt most likely.  Great weapons.

The more QBs that go in the first the better for our pair of second round picks. 

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Going to take some guesses based on today's GM and HC comments (outside the top 3)

 

Atlanta - After Raheem's comments today seems like its either Daniels or Fields

 

Vikings - Kirk stays but I still think they draft a QB (might make a move for JJ)

 

Broncos - This feels like a Bo Nix landing spot

 

Raiders - See Atlanta

 

Giants - Attempt to move up for Maye?

 

Saints - Rattler to sit behind Carr and learn/mature?

 

So...

Atlanta - Fields, probably

Vikings - Kirk

Broncos - JJ or Nix

Raiders - scraps

Giants - probably Nabers or Odunze because they ain't getting Maye unless we take Daniels and NE trades out, which, fat chance of that.  Get ****ed Giants.

Saints - maybe.  Rattler is awk bc he's probably a 3rd round qb but maybe you gotta grab him in the 2nd if all 6 of the big dudes go in the first.

[clskinsfan]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bram for whatever reason thinks Drake is a pure pocket guy.

Because Bram is nothing more than a talking head. 

23 minutes ago, WEARE1554 said:

Trade back and take Nix.

I dont hate Nix as much as some here. But he is probably the worst fit for a KK offense in this draft. 

[DogofWar1]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

The more QBs that go in the first the better for our pair of second round picks. 

I mean I fully expect the big 6 to go.  Having that 5th year option is big.

[mac8887]

13 minutes ago, e16bball said:

 

Yeah, I think we can say that about McCarthy’s one loss. TCU didn’t really belong on the field with the big kids, as we saw in that national championship game, and the primary reason they beat Michigan is because McCarthy put 14 points on the board for them via pick-6s.  
 

It actually sort of makes the point with McCarthy: as long as he wasn’t actively sabotaging them with major mistakes, Michigan won. They sidelined him for the entire 2nd half on the road against a top 10 team in PSU…and still won. He was absolutely awful the next week against UMD…still won. Terrible game against the Witherspoon/Quan Illini last year…still won. 

 

With Maye, if he played poorly, it was a guaranteed loss. UNC couldn’t win unless he carried them. In two years, they won one game (where he played the entirety) in which Maye had less than 294 combined passing/rushing yards. By comparison, McCarthy won twenty-two games over the last two seasons in which he had fewer than 294 combined passing/rushing yards.

 

In one of the losses I assume you’re referring to (Ga Tech 2023), Maye dropped a line of 17/25 for 310 yards with 2 TDs and 0 INTs (198.6 rating) — and for good measure, added in 58 rushing yards and another TD on the ground. That would have been easily one of the 3-4 best games of McCarthy’s career. But UNC still lost, 46-42. His defense yielded almost 650 yards. What else was he supposed to do? 

 

They were not playing the same game, and they were not asked to do the same things in order to win, which I think makes it very difficult to compare their W/L outcomes in any meaningful way.

The weird thing is that I’m actually higher on McCarthy than a significant majority of folks around here (and on the internet in general). If I was at 6 or 8 or 12, I’d give him a very hard look. No question about it. But I just don’t think it’s sound logic to try to compare McCarthy’s W/L record to other players as some sort of personal accomplishment. Not when his roster was so very stacked.

All I’m saying is in 2 years, Drake Maye has had 8 games where he played subpar to bad, a few of which, he was hovering around a 50% completion rate, and in the biggest games, other than in one Miami game, he didn’t play his best ball. UNC was more talented than NC State, and if he would’ve played better they would’ve won those games. Same against UVA. On top of that, Maye racked up some huge numbers against really bad teams, numbers that JJ wouldn’t be able to get because Harbaugh was perfectly happy leaning on the running game coasting to victory. Imagine if JJ was aloud to throw it 30 or 40 times a game when they were blowing teams out? I imagine his yards, and TDs would be much higher. And while I do agree that TCU was inferior to Michigan talent wise, let’s not forget that they were a runner up to national championship. It’s not like they were scrubs out there. On top of that they had what like a month or so off before they even played that game, with a month long by weak things can get kind of fluky. That’s one thing I hate about the CFP and I hope with the change coming, these teams won’t have to wait as long to play after their conference championships. TCU had an amazing year and beat some good teams to get to where they got to. 

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[The Consigliere]

15 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Not to mention 6 is kinda a dead zone for QBs unless you wanna reach on JJ.

 

You're gonna have all but one of Nabers, Odunze, Bowers, Fashanu, and Alt most likely.  Great weapons.

Well, they know that Danny Nickels sucks, and with five years blown on that pipe dream, they'd probably prefer to move on. They can't move on from the contract, but they're positioned potentially well to move up if New England is willing to wait longer on QB. Now New England would be dumb as hell to do that, but they might. For me its hilarious, for all the giants wins over this, I've really enjoying somewhat forcing them to take Flowers after we took Scherff in '15, watching them blow it with Barkley in '18, and then stupidly take Danny Nickels in '19, those 3 decisions really helped ensure they'd totally suck the past half decade and I'd love for them to suck longer, there's something beautiful in some slot killing late season wins that pushed them from a chance to pick top 3 to outside the top 5. But man would it suck if New England went full idiot, and traded out. Part of it seems to be that they were well and truly Maye obsessed this entire offseason, but while we were busy going 0-8 down the stretch, they were busy going 3-3 hahahaha. Just beautiful. Please don't ruin it by trading up and actually landing a legit QB, if they fail to get a QB, they are totally locked in to suck for several more years. At least 3. 

[MartinC]

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Bram is 100% convinced the puck is Daniels or Williams.  He loves Williams. 
 

He almost doesn’t acknowledge Maye is a possibility for the Commanders at #2.
 

In other news, Bram is most likely going to be shocked he’s wrong at about 8:20 on draft day.  

How does he figure we get Williams? Via a trade up I assume.

 

He does understand the Bears have to be willing to trade out of the chance to pick Williams??

[Jumbo]

54 minutes ago, WEARE1554 said:

Trade back and take Nix.

  

You're fired! 😁