The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[lovemaskins]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I am totally against this.  

 

I have no idea how good any of these guys are going to be.

 

However, you take your shot early and see if it works out.  You get the guy with the best physical skills and track record.

 

You have to get VERY VERY lucky to hit on a QB later in the draft.  Hell, you have to get lucky to hit on a QB early in the draft.  But the odds are better.  

And they’ll all be terrible if we trot that offensive line out there again. That’s why that tackle early is tempting. Not sure how the FO figures it all out but the oline has to be fully rebuilt to even think about a QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mac8887]

I've got a feeling Jacoby will play well. He also seems like a really good dude and a blessing to have in the locker room. I'd love to resign him to mentor our new qb we draft.

Edited December 27, 2023 by mac8887

[Jumbo]

13 minutes ago, Buddha said:

  Leaders of men don't cry in their mommy's lap in front of everyone after losing a game...

 

I think you would find the post-game ES moderator meetings very uncomfortable.

 

😢😢😢😢😢

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't find them too similar watching them except for they arguably share two weaknesses -- decision making (picks) and while they are both mobile you can bring them down where pressure is converted to sacks.

This is primarily what I meant.  I haven’t scrubbed the amount of tape you have but I’ve been brushing up on all 3 the last couple weeks.  Maye is coming in 3rd for me right now.  Didn’t love the decision making or the sacks.  I guess it’s a plus that he improved on sacks in 2023 as 2022 was pretty bad.  4 inches isn’t nothing and sure can help when your center and guards live in your lap.  
 

My gut right now is that QBs go 1 & 2, potential trade-ups to get there, and those QBs will be Williams and Daniels.  Daniels size isn’t ideal, but totally fixable and something I’d imagine everyone will be in his ear about.  His ceiling is more appealing to me.  Maye feels like the consolation prize.  

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

Call me a white Herm Edwards.  But I can't get behind rooting for losses week to week simply to improve draft order.  You. Play. To. Win. The. Game.

 

I do take the long view and look at the benefits of losing AFTER a loss.  To soothe the frustration of another inept performance.  

 

...After the fact...

 

But when I'm in front of the television watching them, I'm rooting for touchdowns and defensive stops. 

 

That's harder to do this season than most - given that Sam Howell hasn't proven himself, our resulting glaring need at quarterback, and the prospect of top candidates there for the choosing on April 25.

 

But even then the draft is a crap shoot, especially at quarterback.  Tanking sucks.

 

 

 

 

 

Then don't watch. Rooting for a win at this point in the season and at this point in the organizational timeline is asinine. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from a win. Not one thing. This roster is going to turnover 90% or more over the next couple seasons. Basically the entire staff and FO is getting wiped out. We are in a neck-and-neck race for draft positioning in the top 3.

 

Yes it sucks to watch and root for a loss. Easy to find more productive ways to spend 3 hours of your Sunday in that case. And I don't say that pejoratively, it's simply a matter of truth. 

43 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I also feel like Drake Maye is Sam Howell +4 inches.  He just doesn’t do it for me.

 

Jayden Daniels or bust, please!

 

If Sam Howell were Sam Howell + 4 inches we'd probably be salivating over MHJr right now. I really think the extra height would help him stand "tall" in the pocket and see routes developing more clearly. Teams wouldn't be able to simply clog up the middle to shut him down.  

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I haven’t watched a ton of Maye but he plays nothing like Howell. Just play style wise, he reminds me of Andrew Luck. Big guy with functional athleticism and stands tall in the pocket. 
 

Only similarities to Howell are school and skin color. Sam was running around in a constant state of chaos in all of his highlights at UNC. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I haven’t watched a ton of Maye but he plays nothing like Howell. Just play style wise, he reminds me of Andrew Luck. Big guy with functional athleticism and stands tall in the pocket. 
 

Only similarities to Howell are school and skin color. Sam was running around in a constant state of chaos in all of his highlights at UNC. 

They both eat sacks.

[mac8887]

4 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I haven’t watched a ton of Maye but he plays nothing like Howell. Just play style wise, he reminds me of Andrew Luck. Big guy with functional athleticism and stands tall in the pocket. 
 

Only similarities to Howell are school and skin color. Sam was running around in a constant state of chaos in all of his highlights at UNC. 

Yeah I don't get it either, one thing they say about maye is he is really good at going through his reads fast and it will translate well. Sam is the exact opposite, he is poor at reading defense and going through his reads and holds the ball to long because of it. Sam does really well running around playing backyard ball but in this league to be a consistently good qb you have to throw on time with anticipation, the backyard baller can only be a positive trait and not what your game revolves around. That is why caleb williams is such a good prospect, he can do both really well

[alaroche04]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

They both eat sacks.

Maye was much better under pressure than Howell was at UNC.

[MrJL]

2 hours ago, RVAskins said:

You're speaking like a fan. I get it but at the end of the day, RR is paid to win games, not get us a higher draft position.`I guarantee you, Ron doesn't give a rats ass about next years draft. Get a competent GM and the draft will work out.

At this point Ron is paid simply to show up cause he's  not going to be retained

[Skinsinparadise]

Obviously its about the next GM but its an entertaining thought.  Now I got to watch more Caleb.

 

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

They both eat sacks.

it’ll definitely be something to mindful of for all the prospects 

 

2 minutes ago, alaroche04 said:

Maye was much better under pressure than Howell was at UNC.

Howell was worse but Maye’s numbers aren’t great either 

[mac8887]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

it’ll definitely be something to mindful of for all the prospects 

 

It's pretty wild that the one withe the least athletic ability with his legs in penix takes the less sacks. He either throws it away a lot or really knows where his receivers will be. I like penix he throws an absolute beautiful deep ball. I still think you gotta go with the guy that gives you both the passing and running ability and try to coach taking sacks out of them. But with Flacco coming in and commanding the browns offense it shows you there is still room in the NFL for a traditional drop back passer.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is primarily what I meant.  I haven’t scrubbed the amount of tape you have but I’ve been brushing up on all 3 the last couple weeks.  Maye is coming in 3rd for me right now.  Didn’t love the decision making or the sacks.  I guess it’s a plus that he improved on sacks in 2023 as 2022 was pretty bad.  4 inches isn’t nothing and sure can help when your center and guards live in your lap.  
 

My gut right now is that QBs go 1 & 2, potential trade-ups to get there, and those QBs will be Williams and Daniels.  Daniels size isn’t ideal, but totally fixable and something I’d imagine everyone will be in his ear about.  His ceiling is more appealing to me.  Maye feels like the consolation prize.  

 

Watching Daniels over and over again.  And Maye ditto is what's keeping me sane lately as the season goes on.

 

I think Maye is the safer bet over Daniels and not just because of durability concerns but IMO Maye has a higher floor for reasons I got into in the draft thread.  I go back and forth between the two of them.

 

lol, I can tell Maye isn't exciting to some on the thread.  I get it.  For example, Herbert is very good but he's not excitng to watch.    I think the Herbert comps which I see the most with Drake are apt to an extent.  

 

Maye has prototype size.  protoype quick release.  prototype mobility.  prototype strength.    How many QBs has the team drafted like that in my lifetime?  Zero.  

 

The hesitation for me with Maye is his accuracy can be streaky.   He can be a bit clunky escaping pressure in the pocket.  

 

But I've seen enough that I'd be jazzed if we drafted him.  It wouldn't feel even a little like Howell to me.  And look i liked it when they drafted Howell.  But as I said on the draft thread that year all of those QBs were clear wildcards.  I didn't rank any of them as a first rounder let alone top 5.  Not that it matters what I think.  But this matches clearly the conventional thoughts about these QBs, too.   

 

When I hear scouts-personell guys talk about this QB class, I don't recall any mentions of Drake-Sam parallels.  That seems more of a thing here and on twitter with Commanders fans.

 

I am not pounding the table for Drake.  If anything I think he's a bit overrated by draftniks -- but I also get the excitment about him because he has elite tools IMO.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

There’s no better example that a traditional drop back passer can succeed in the league than Kirk Cousins.  The problem is when everyone is covered on third down or the opposing defense is sending the house, their brains don’t tell them to use their legs.

Edited December 27, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[rumplestilskin]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I think in reality you go all in for the #1 pick, or bail out for assets.

Agree. If there is someone there that the new office believes is the franchise,  you go get em and dont look back.

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Watching Daniels over and over again.  And Maye ditto is what's keeping me sane lately as the season goes on.

 

I think Maye is the safer bet over Daniels and not just because of durability concerns but IMO Maye has a higher floor for reasons I got into in the draft thread.  I go back between the two of them.

 

lol, I can tell Maye isn't exciting to some on the thread.  I get it.  For example, Herbert is very good but he's not excitng to watch.    I think the Herbert comps which I see the most with Drake are apt to an extent.  

 

Maye has prototype size.  protoype quick release.  prototype mobility.  prototype strength.    How many QBs has the team drafted like that in my lifetime?  Zero.  

 

The hesitation for me with Maye is his accuracy can be streaky.   He can be a bit clunky escaping pressure in the pocket.  

 

But I've seen enough that I'd be jazzed if we drafted him.  It wouldn't feel even a little like Howell to me.  And look i liked it when they drafted Howell.  But as I said on the draft thread that year all of those QBs were clear wildcards.  I didn't rank any of them as a first rounder let alone top 5.  Not that it matters what I think.  But this matches clearly the conventional thoughts about these QBs, too.   

 

When I hear scouts-personell guys talk about this QB class, I don't recall any mentions of Drake-Sam parallels.  That seems more of a thing here and on twitter with Commanders fans.

 

I am not pounding the table for Drake.  If anything I think he's a bit overrated by draftniks -- but I also get the excitment about him because he has elite tools IMO.

Any early info on the mental makeup of the top 3 QBs? One of them stand above the rest relating to commitment to the game? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

When I hear scouts-personell guys talk about this QB class, I don't recall any mentions of Drake-Sam parallels.  That seems more of a thing here and on twitter with Commanders fans.

I think the parallels begin and end with the two weaknesses you mentioned, pressure/sacks and accuracy.

[Dan T.]

39 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Then don't watch. Rooting for a win at this point in the season and at this point in the organizational timeline is asinine. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from a win. Not one thing. This roster is going to turnover 90% or more over the next couple seasons. Basically the entire staff and FO is getting wiped out. We are in a neck-and-neck race for draft positioning in the top 3.

 

 

Thank you for your arrogant, misguided advice.  As if I didn't know the facts of this team, its predicament, and its likely future.      Mr. GM.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

It's pretty wild that the one withe the least athletic ability with his legs in penix takes the less sacks. He either throws it away a lot or really knows where his receivers will be. I like penix he throws an absolute beautiful deep ball. I still think you gotta go with the guy that gives you both the passing and running ability and try to coach taking sacks out of them. But with Flacco coming in and commanding the browns offense it shows you there is still room in the NFL for a traditional drop back passer.

 

If you watch them its some of the more mobile QBs trust their legs to hang in the pocket more.

 

IMO even though Daniels had the worst number of that group, he's better at escaping pressure than Maye.  He has some spiderman moves dodging defenders in the pocket under duress.   But still he needs to get rid of the ball.  He's very reluctant to throw on the move and the numbers bear that out.

 

I like Maye as a player but as I mentioned even before that stat was posted -- he's a big clunky in the pocket when the pressure comes.  The one thing though that helps him IMO over Howell is he really processes fast when he's in the pocket and gets rid of the ball quickly.

 

Daniels conversion to sack number was lower on PFF's site compared to that tweet posted.

 

But as for both Daniels and Maye, they take too many sacks when flushed out of the pocket.

 

I posted this elsewhere but I'll post it here too some of the apples to apples stats

 

 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If Sam is just a backup; he’ll be cut or traded. We are going to want a vet qb to back up the rookie. 

Howell is at least a good backup. But I agree that having a vet behind a rookie is probably a good idea - you need someone who does not need many reps as you get a rookie ready to play and someone who can be a mentor.

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There’s no better example that a traditional drop back passer can succeed in the league than Kirk Cousins.  The problem is when everyone is covered on third down or the opposing defense is sending the house, their brains don’t tell them to use their legs.

Do you remember when kirk would keep the ball on zone reads? Rg3 did it a lot but that was to be expected, but kirk did it a lot as well and did it well. I'm surprised that wasn't a wrinkle in this o with sam, he had the ability. Do you think it's because he runs more like a running back and really seems oblivious to taking hits? If so were they just trying to protect him and if so, without looking back Do you think it's something they should've incorporated. I do, I've seen so many shot gun runs where if he would've kept the ball he would've been will Ferrell going streaking.

[@DCGoldPants]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Obviously its about the next GM but its an entertaining thought.  Now I got to watch more Caleb.

 

 

 

 

Don't have whoever will be GM. Don't have whoever will be HC. I imagine if you want to be vague, 32 teams have SOME interest. But what the actual ****? I don't have ESPN+ tp read this, but come on.

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you watch them its some of the more mobile QBs trust their legs to hang in the pocket more.

 

IMO even though Daniels had the worst number of that group, he's better at escaping pressure than Maye.  He has some spiderman moves dodging defenders in the pocket under duress.   But still he needs to get rid of the ball.  He's very reluctant to throw on the move and the numbers bear that out.

 

I like Maye as a player but as I mentioned even before that stat was posted -- he's a big clunky in the pocket when the pressure comes.  The one thing though that helps him IMO over Howell is he really processes fast when he's in the pocket and gets rid of the ball quickly.

 

Daniels conversion to sack number was lower on PFF's site compared to that tweet posted.

 

But as for both Daniels and Maye, they take too many sacks when flushed out of the pocket.

 

I posted this elsewhere but I'll post it here too some of the apples to apples stats

 

 

I imagine daniels is more reluctant to let it rip on the run is because he truly believes in his running abilities. I know you want your qb always looking to make the throw but there has been so many times this year that I wish Sam would've just taken off at full speed and run soon as he broke pocket. He had the corner many times. With daniels elite speed, if he gets the corner he gets chunk yardage and even breaks off big ones often. If we get him I hope he continues that but does it in a safer manner by getting out of bounds or giving himself up especially if he hasn't made it past the linebackers. I think he is big enough to withstand a hit from a db