The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Won’t catch me disagreeing on your player assessment. But I disagree with you on Bienemy. In KC he had Andy Reid (and watch, he’s going to wind up back there with him and successful)

 

Yep.  It's was Reid's offense not Bieniemy's offense.  And to Bieniemy's credt he acknowledges that.  Bieniemy was the sous chef not the chef.  And according to some who covered KC, Bieniemy wasn't even the top sous chef, that was Nagy. 

 

I was good with rolling the dice on Bieiniemy but it seems clear he's not the answer. 

[DJHJR86]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  It's was Reid's offense not Bieniemy's offense.  And to Bieniemy's credt he acknowledges that.  Bieniemy was the sous chef not the chef.  And according to some who covered KC, Bieniemy wasn't even the top sous chef, that was Nagy. 

 

I was good with rolling the dice on Bieiniemy but it seems clear he's not the answer. 

 

And before Nagy, it was Kafka.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  It's was Reid's offense not Bieniemy's offense.  And to Bieniemy's credt he acknowledges that.  Bieniemy was the sous chef not the chef.  And according to some who covered KC, Bieniemy wasn't even the top sous chef, that was Nagy. 

 

I was good with rolling the dice on Bieiniemy but it seems clear he's not the answer. 

Guess we had to learn the hard way why he was constantly picked over for an HC role 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think when you're holding teams like the Bills to 16 points into the 4rth Q and you refuse to establish a run game, your DC is gonna want to punch him in the head like Kevin Gilbride.

 

I think the defense has had us in plenty of games until recently and the offense is run so incompetently they expose the defense.

 

I'm not dismissing our defensive issues, there are plenty, but I'd say that it seems fairly obvious that Ron and JDR are leaders and communicators and haven't lost the team, while the offensive players have been vocal about the OC since training camp and it keeps getting worse.

 

I think losing Harris and McCain has hurt our secondary, that should have been a strength, but because Snyder drug the sale out too long, we couldn't retain them, so they tried to patch it with the draft and it didn't work. I think JDR speaks to his players like men and respects his captains, while EB talks down to people and has no respect and the players are sick of it.

 

Yesterday we were getting beat defensively because better players made better plays for the cowboys, but we were within 10 points for most of the game and the offense drug ass with obvious bad play calls.

 

We were in that game, despite being out classed and the offense faltered because of bad play call after bad play call.

 

I’m willing to give you your flowers for hating Bienemy since the onset, but you’re tarnishing it with this glorified take of Jack and his defenses role in how awful this season turned out.  Jack has so many resources invested in this defense, and his fingerprints all over it.  Any instances you can name where games were relatively close were a result of unforced errors. 
 

Ron and Jack built and captained the Titanic, Bienemy just fit right in with the ineptitude.

[skinsmania123]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  It's was Reid's offense not Bieniemy's offense.  And to Bieniemy's credt he acknowledges that.  Bieniemy was the sous chef not the chef.  And according to some who covered KC, Bieniemy wasn't even the top sous chef, that was Nagy. 

 

I was good with rolling the dice on Bieiniemy but it seems clear he's not the answer. 

100 percent. I honestly think all these points are evident in the documentary Quarterback, based on the 2022 season. Reid called the plays and Nagy sat with Mahomes going over things between series, and off in the corner, by himself, staring at the plays, with no headset was Bieniemy. 

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m willing to give you your flowers for hating Bienemy since the onset, but you’re tarnishing it with this glorified take of Jack and his defenses role in how awful this season turned out.  Jack has so many resources invested in this defense, and his fingerprints all over it.  Any instances you can name where games were relatively close were a result of unforced errors. 
 

Ron and Jack built and captained the Titanic, Bienemy just fit right in with the ineptitude.

Won't catch me disagreeing with you. I've been plenty vocal about my distain for Ron since this offseason started.

 

But watching us finally get our QB and see him handicapped by terrible play calling and forcing bad players into starting rolls is extra frustrating. 

 

I bet if we kept Turner as OC, let JDR go and promoted Harris to DC This team would be a hell of a lot better.

 

I think I'm more vocal about EB, for a few reasons. He's trying to ruin Howell, I think he's a scumbag of a person, it frustrates me to see people make excuses for him. 

 

We know JDR is bad. I still think EB is worse.

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Calling a **** ton of pass plays doesn’t really mean he’s got any type of feel for designing or calling it effectively.  I was one of those that didn’t buy what McCoy was selling because he has the propensity to be extra for the sake of trying to get clicks and credibility.  But he actually hit the nail on the head from what we’ve seen.

Dude said nothing about effectiveness. He literally said he wasn’t in the meetings and had zero to do with the passing game at all. It was a clear lie then and a clear lie now. 
 

Why y’all feel the need to make it a cog in your arguments is weird to me especially when we agree he is far from effective. 

[Conn]

12 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Dude said nothing about effectiveness. He literally said he wasn’t in the meetings and had zero to do with the passing game at all. It was a clear lie then and a clear lie now. 
 

Why y’all feel the need to make it a cog in your arguments is weird to me especially when we agree he is far from effective. 

Was it true at the time McCoy was still there years ago, though? Wasn’t Nagy or somebody the OC back then and EB a quality control type position where he just broke down tape to find tendencies in an office somewhere or something? I think at the time McCoy was arguing that he wasn’t qualified to be OC, before he was actually doing the OC job. I could be misremembering 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

Was it true at the time McCoy was still there years ago, though? Wasn’t Nagy or somebody the OC back then and EB a quality control type position where he just broke down tape to find tendencies in an office somewhere or something? I think at the time McCoy was arguing that he wasn’t qualified to be OC, before he was actually doing the OC job. I could be misremembering 

No you could be right and that would explain it. He was some quality control guy before he was promoted. 
 

I hate it when y’all are right almost as much as when I’m wrong lol

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

18 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Dude said nothing about effectiveness. He literally said he wasn’t in the meetings and had zero to do with the passing game at all. It was a clear lie then and a clear lie now. 
 

Why y’all feel the need to make it a cog in your arguments is weird to me especially when we agree he is far from effective. 

What disproved McCoy’s statements though?  Did someone from the Chiefs come out and shoot them down?

 

I’m just saying that because he calls a lot of pass plays doesn’t prove that McCoy lied.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I heard another radio dude, don't know his name I think he's new on 106.7 make the same point as below referencing Keim's report about Bieniemy.

 

These dudes make it so simplistic.  I don't get the vibe at all that the main issue with Bieniemy is that he works them too hard -- its other things and play calling is in that mix. 

 

To some of these radio personalities its like rocket science to be a hardass and that's what makes you great.  There are plenty of hardasses in the NFL, so what?

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What disproved McCoy’s statements though?  Did someone from the Chiefs come out and shoot them down?

 

I’m just saying that because he calls a lot of pass plays doesn’t prove that McCoy lied.

I dunno. I guess what you really want to argue is less McCoys words and more the overall point that EB isn’t a good OC. And while I ultimately agree with that, I feel like y’all just go sooo far to the point of over exaggerating. It upsets me that we (the colloquial “we”) dumb down our argument to “EB is dumb! McCoy was right he doesn’t know anything!” when I know we are all more educated than that kind of take. 
 

But I’m so over arguing about this dude. Especially when we both can’t wait for him to be calling 4 and 1 empty sets for someone else. 
 

 

[“Misdirection”]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Not great! Wonder how this correlates to overall passing volume and a drop/attempt type ratio, and how we’d then rate to other teams with similar volume. Chargers/Chiefs seem likely comps anecdotally.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I dunno. I guess what you really want to argue is less McCoys words and more the overall point that EB isn’t a good OC. And while I ultimately agree with that, I feel like y’all just go sooo far to the point of over exaggerating. It upsets me that we (the colloquial “we”) dumb down our argument to “EB is dumb! McCoy was right he doesn’t know anything!” when I know we are all more educated than that kind of take. 
 

But I’m so over arguing about this dude. Especially when we both can’t wait for him to be calling 4 and 1 empty sets for someone else. 
 

 

 

McCoy comes across like a sour grapes guy, as well as loud for the sake of drawing attention.   So I wasn’t buying what he was selling.  I was all about hiring EB, so it’s not like I’m bragging about him not being good.  I figured it was worth a shot given our options, and the hope that Reid rubbed off on him.  I knew he had been turned down a dozen or more times for head coaching positions, but definitely thought it was worth a shot as an OC.  I’ve even tried to be patient knowing this OL is garbage and the defense is awful.  But there’s just been too much of late that I can’t excuse, like literal WTF is this guy doing moments at critical junctures.  Playcalls that legit make you wonder if he’s deliberately self sabotaging they are so egregious.

[Chris 44]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I heard another radio dude, don't know his name I think he's new on 106.7 make the same point as below referencing Keim's report about Bieniemy.

 

These dudes make it so simplistic.  I don't get the vibe at all that the main issue with Bieniemy is that he works them too hard -- its other things and play calling is in that mix. 

 

To some of these radio personalities its like rocket science to be a hardass and that's what makes you great.  There are plenty of hardasses in the NFL, so what?

 

 

 

Reid was also in charge of the offense, EB didn't do anything without Reids approval. EB has had total control over this offense; practice, play calling, game day player selection.

[RandyHolt]

I was pro EB and still kind of am as long as Howell thrives. All OCs make bad playcalls its not just Turner and EB.  But what I want to know is if EB learned from yesterdays failures. Ron hardly seems the one to point out mistakes to him, but we all know EB was going to have growing pains and that means ****ty play calls. But for all the complaints about that 4th and 1 our offense overall had a decent day stat wise. Defense is such a far bigger issue as long as Sam is standing and throwing for 300 and Brian Robinson continues to prove he has an all round back future - those are things that EB should be graded on outside of play calls. He may be gone next year but our new OC now knows he has 2 studs we werent so sure of 2 months ago.

 

Only 2 backs have 500 rush and 300 receiving yards. You know who and BRob is #2.

Edited November 24, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Daniel.redskins]

If you want to see real bad QB play, watch Boyle today for the Jets.  Also Geno Smith last night.  When Sam plays bad, it's never unwatchable.  Let's build the line and give him another year. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Daniel.redskins

[zCommander]

6 hours ago, Conn said:

@SWFLSkinsI could be misremembering but this is you, right? You’re still pulling for EB to get the job?

 

That is correct SWFLSkins is Ashburning. Great memory!

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Daniel.redskins said:

When Sam plays bad, it's never unwatchable. 

 

Very true and I'm still trying to find a name for this ability.

 

Concrete Floor?

Blanket Competence?

Garbage-Fireproof Suit?

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Won't catch me disagreeing with you. I've been plenty vocal about my distain for Ron since this offseason started.

 

But watching us finally get our QB and see him handicapped by terrible play calling and forcing bad players into starting rolls is extra frustrating. 

 

I bet if we kept Turner as OC, let JDR go and promoted Harris to DC This team would be a hell of a lot better.

 

I think I'm more vocal about EB, for a few reasons. He's trying to ruin Howell, I think he's a scumbag of a person, it frustrates me to see people make excuses for him. 

 

We know JDR is bad. I still think EB is worse.

I think it was a great move to dump Turner.

I was not a fan of bringing EB in either but was willing to give him a shot. He has some good qualities but play calling and understanding players strengths and weaknesses are not them.

We would have been much better without Turner or EB

 

[Ball Security]

47 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I think it was a great move to dump Turner.

I was not a fan of bringing EB in either but was willing to give him a shot. He has some good qualities but play calling and understanding players strengths and weaknesses are not them.

We would have been much better without Turner or EB

 

Who would we get though? Knowing that this regime was on its way out. Getting EB was a special circumstance. A guy who was not getting HC opportunities gets a chance outside of the Reid/Mahomes shadow. I don’t see how this OC position would be desirable to anyone else.

 

Similar to how I feel about the fired DB coach. Once Harris left, who outside of the org would want to come here knowing it’s one and done?

[Captain Wiggles]

14 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Once Harris left, who outside of the org would want to come here knowing it’s one and done?

 

Exactly. That's how we ended up with Travelle Wharton as the oline coach as well.  😒

[Chris 44]

3 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Exactly. That's how we ended up with Travelle Wharton as the oline coach as well.  😒

I think this (assistant/position coach selection) is a huge part of the overall suck this year.

[illone]

On 11/23/2023 at 6:28 AM, samy316 said:

Sorry, but this isn’t correct AT ALL.  Herbert is MOST DEFINITELY a Top 5 QB in the league. 

 

 

I dont have him ranked that high. 

 

I could quickly name 10 Qbs id take over him, but maybe in another thread. 

 

In the end it's all subjective anyways.  One coach might favor the salary cap situation, another might prefer big money QB already in place.

 

The funny thing is, Gruden WANTS to be coaching, that's why he is creating content and going on radio shows. If Harris called him he would be on the next flight.