The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I actually think WR is going to work itself out.  I think Dotson is having a bit of a sophomore slump, which happens, but is a very good WR who gets open a lot.  He's also in the second year of a rookie contract, he's here no matter what, as is Terry.  If you have Terry/Dotson as #1/#2, that's fine.  

 

#3 they can find.  They actually did reasonably well with the combination of Crowder, Brown and Pringle last year.  You can draft a mid-round guy or you can sign a guy.  My assumption is Samuel will not be back.  

 

I think Logan Thomas is a "fine" TE.  But I think he's a FA.  I really want to see more of Turner.  I think the reason we don't see him is his blocking is "meh."  If Turner can't be the guy, then yeah, they need another TE.

 

I would argue they need to completely overhaul the OL room.  Leno is ok, but old.  Gates probably gets cut in the off-season.  Charles won't be re-signed.  Stromboli and Daniels are rookies.  Wylie is ok until he isn't.  Unless Paul shows out significantly in the next 8 games, I think you have openings at LT, LG and RT at a minimum.  Stromberg should damn well be the starting center next year.  

 

RB: I never understood the Rodriguez draft pick.  He's basically a clone of what Robinson does.  I like him.  But I'm not sure what you do with him.  Robinson is good, but not a game breaker and Gibson will not be re-signed.  I think they need a 3rd down back.  But Robinson and Rodriguez are fine as 1st/2nd down backs.  

 

This could change if we bring in another OC, but in the Reid system, with the amount of emphasis on getting the ball to receivers and backs in space, having faster, good receiving backs is more important than powerful/straight ahead types.  Which is a reason why I found it weird we drafted Rodriguez.  

Thomas is under contract next season - but we can save $6.5M of cap space by cutting him. He’s a good possession type TE and as a red zone target but he doesn’t really give you the ability to get vertical down the seams. 
 

Id be surprised if he is back next season.

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Thomas is under contract next season - but we can save $6.5M of cap space by cutting him. He’s a good possession type TE and as a red zone target but he doesn’t really give you the ability to get vertical down the seams. 
 

Id be surprised if he is back next season.

Unless they upgrade he’s not a bad option, and if they do, he’s a good backup. 
 

But they’ve had essentially the same TE room 2 years in a row.  It needs to change and be better. 

[dunfer]

33 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

I think if you don’t have an elite, top 5-7 type of QB none of the other problems matter. That’s the biggest one there is. It’s step one. 

you have no idea what howell is going to be though. Youre just talking out your ass to make an argument and amuse yourself.

 

Weve got another year to see Sam do what hes doing. Thats house money..you dont throw that opportunity away to spend it all on another lottery ticket

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Stihl89 said:

If you’re choosing Howell over Caleb I’m sorry but you’re being a homer. Caleb IMO is the 3rd best QB prospect since the Luck class. He has Mahomes level talent. Sam does not. 
 

Let’s live in the real world guys 

Howell and all the picks it will require to draft Caleb, yeah - I’ll take Howell.

 

If I’m drafting one or two, I go Caleb.

[philibusters]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Howell and all the picks it will require to draft Caleb, yeah - I’ll take Howell.

 

If I’m drafting one or two, I go Caleb.

 

 

Who are the two ahead of Caleb Williams?  Trevor Lawrence I can see, not sure who else you would put above him if you start in from 2013.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, philibusters said:

 

 

Who are the two ahead of Caleb Williams?  Trevor Lawrence I can see, not sure who else you would put above him if you start in from 2013.

I meant that if our record put us in a position to draft 1 or 2 where I don’t have to give up any assets in trade, I’d select Williams.

[Redskins 2021]

 I can't see us picking any higher then 7. We are at 12 right now. You might not be able to get the 3rd best Qb from there. Bring Howell back see how it plays out long-term. Stafford won a superbowl, Howell could probably get to that level of Qb.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[philibusters]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I meant that if our record put us in a position to draft 1 or 2 where I don’t have to give up any assets in trade, I’d select Williams.

 

I quoted the wrong post.  I didn't mean to quote you.  I meant to quote the person who said Caleb Williams was the third best QB prospect since Luck.  I knew one of them was Trevor Lawrence but was trying to figure out who the other was.

[Dark Acre]

If this team trades Howell, I'm rooting for team Howell.  I qualified for the senior discount at my pot club last year.  I don't have time for another 20 years of hope.

[The Consigliere]

8 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Didn't we already try this once before with RG3? 

 

Hard pass.

 

You keep trying until you get him. We may have him, we may not. There was nothing wrong, whatsoever w/trading a pile of firsts to move up to get RGIII. I'd do it again, I'd do it a thousand times. If you can get a franchise QB, you pay the price to get them, ALWAYS. If you miss, you figure that out, and try again. 

[Jumbo]

@KDawg @Voice_of_Reason

 

It's cuz he was a dupe acct for zimhead.

 

Was a dupe acct. 

 

Good detective work. 😉

[clskinsfan]

15 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

It's cuz he's a dupe acct for zimhead.

 

Was a dupe acct. 

Funny how we know each others posting styles so well we can pick each other out without a screen name. 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Unless they upgrade he’s not a bad option, and if they do, he’s a good backup. 
 

But they’ve had essentially the same TE room 2 years in a row.  It needs to change and be better. 

He’s too expensive to be here next year as TE2. Maybe on a restructured deal with a real pay cut in exchange for a couple of extra years. 

[The Consigliere]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Player profiler would call that juke rate I think. I was trying to figure out how to describe what he does, because he's not fast, and doesn't have top end acceleration, he's basically "fine" in terms of speed, but when you watched the UNC clips, you definitely saw an intuition or spatial awareness or something that made him really effective at finding running seems and angles to pick up unusually large amounts of yards. Now we're seeing it here too, but juke rate is part of what he's doing so well, for sure. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, MartinC said:

He’s too expensive to be here next year as TE2. Maybe on a restructured deal with a real pay cut in exchange for a couple of extra years. 

True but …

 

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

@KDawg @Voice_of_Reason

 

It's cuz he was a dupe acct for zimhead.

 

Was a dupe acct. 

 

Good detective work. 😉

[KillBill26]

I wouldn't be surprised to see maye have more success in the NFL than Caleb.  And Id rather have Howell + high first round pick at another position, than draft maye/Caleb and flip Howell for picks that aren't going to match his worth.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Player profiler would call that juke rate I think. I was trying to figure out how to describe what he does, because he's not fast, and doesn't have top end acceleration, he's basically "fine" in terms of speed, but when you watched the UNC clips, you definitely saw an intuition or spatial awareness or something that made him really effective at finding running seems and angles to pick up unusually large amounts of yards. Now we're seeing it here too, but juke rate is part of what he's doing so well, for sure. 

 

I loved the angle he took on his touchdown run against the Cowboys.  It felt like something you don't see very much of

[RandyHolt]

Bryce looked like crap last night. The bears are aggressive on D and they embarrased us until they took the foot off the gas / ran out of RBs.

 

Regardless Bryce is listed at 5'10. That means he ain't 5'10.  He needs a lift.

Edited November 11, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Regardless Bryce is listed at 5'10. That means he ain't 5'10.  He needs a lift.

That’s his official measurement from the combine. Still short.

[RandyHolt]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

That’s his official measurement from the combine. Still short.

Measurement police are human.  Compassionate humans. 

 

I cant recall ever seeing a player listed at 5'9 3/4"  5/8ths, or 1/4th. I am convinced they always round up to the nearest whole and NEVER round down. If not we'd see actual measurements - 13/16ths #AmericaProud. Sure he can be an even 10 inches - but i'd bet a Geno's Hamburger most in the NFL listed at 510 ain't 510.

 

Of course an agent would never let their top prospect be listed lower than what they are... round up is the unspoken rule.

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Player profiler would call that juke rate I think. I was trying to figure out how to describe what he does, because he's not fast, and doesn't have top end acceleration, he's basically "fine" in terms of speed, but when you watched the UNC clips, you definitely saw an intuition or spatial awareness or something that made him really effective at finding running seems and angles to pick up unusually large amounts of yards. Now we're seeing it here too, but juke rate is part of what he's doing so well, for sure. 

I think it’s more than a juke rate though. He breaks tackles. Dude is way stronger than people give him credit for. I’m curious his rushing yards after contact lol

[Silvernon]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I think it’s more than a juke rate though. He breaks tackles. Dude is way stronger than people give him credit for. I’m curious his rushing yards after contact lol

But it seems like a good chunk are the 1 v 1 where he fakes it well enough to break the tackle or juke completely. 

[zCommander]

9 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

Normally I don't respond to arguments like this because it genuinely feels like they were made in bad faith, but you seem to be getting some encouragement from the room so I want to ask you, do you seriously think that passing yardage volume demonstrates that Sam is better than Burrow and Lawrence?  Do you really think that being an average player in the NFL automatically makes a player better than any upcoming prospect?  And not just better today, but a player with more potential and more value.  Would you accept this argument if I say that it'd be stupid to waste a draft pick on Olu Fashanu or Joe Alt because Andrew Wylie is already here and > than them because he's got average production against NFL competition?  Would you agree that Josh Dobbs is better than Caleb Williams and Drake Maye because of the same reasoning?

 

Those arguments remind me of the homer "Jamin can't be a reach because draft reaches can't exist," takes from May, 2021.

 

The passing yards are just a mere reflection of how well or good Sam is doing even with our OL, and to put up numbers like these is just not normal. Sure we throw the ball a lot but you still have to complete them to count towards a total. Lawrence never had a rookie year as good as Sam is having but Burrow wasn't bad though. Trevor completed less than 60% of his passes his rookie year. 

 

I look at Howell as a preview to what is to come. The movie has been released but we are not done watching it quite yet. But so far it looks pretty good to me barring any twists towards the end of the movie.

 

As for Caleb, did you know what he said? He said, "I always said even in high school that I don't think there's anything—obviously, he's special, but I don't think there's anything that I can't do that he's doing out there." He already thinks he is at the same level as Mahomes perhaps even better. Is this the guy one should really want? Ego will end your career sooner than one thinks. When you can't live up to the potential you said you have then that is a bust in the making with that attitude. Sam on the other hand is out there trying to prove people who are wrong about him and not who are right about him. I rather have a QB with that kind of mentality because I know they are going to work their butt off and not think they are already better than a SB winning QB (Mahomes hadn't won his 2nd SB yet when he said that).

 

If you think Sam is avg. that is cool. He has played beyond anyone thought he would. Before the season started NFL had him ranked 32 on the QB list. Which is where he supposed to start. Right now they have him listed at 9 in their QB rankings. This is only after 9 games. To you he is avg. But in reality he has done more with less. Pretty sure avg. QBs can't jump that high on the rankings like that after only 9 games. Also an avg. QB won't have over 66% completion or throw for that many yards. I will give you that in the Bills game he played below avg. But even the high and the mighty have bad games too. It is okay to have an off day. Josh Allen did against the lowly Jets. 

 

Let's assume there were no stats - if you evaluated QBs based on just your eyes then what would you say about Howell? Would you say he doesn't have a strong arm or can't make a play from anywhere on the field or twist his body in the opposite direction while jumping up in the air and throwing for over 20+ yards for a completion or make improbable passes to probable or run for 24 yards while knocking defenders down? Would that be considered avg. in your eyes? Do all the avg. QBs play like that?

 

Would you agree then since Josh Dobbs is avg. that means Howell is at the same level as Dobbs? 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by zCommander

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

 

[RandyHolt]

Get Sam a LT a 2nd #1WR type a dynamic home run back slight upgrade at TE and a coach to manage timeouts better... watch out MVP kings.

Joking aside Sam is doing great now but with a GM focused on building the offense and not the defense, watch out.  They say defense wins championships but it could also be a great offense coupled with a DC that knows to attack a super bowl grade QB and not let them pick him apart. And as always, simply win the turnover battle.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by RandyHolt