The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Wyvern]

Scheme-fit aside, I wonder how well Carr would 'personally' take to Bienemy's reputedly "hard-nosed" style of coaching. 

 

...Carr seemed a little bit thin-skinned to me. 

 

And at 35 million, Bienemy/Rivera would really have to stick with Carr over Howell for a long time before making any switch, should Carr not be performing to their expectations.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Wyvern

[tmandoug1]

I have been demanding Oline help for decades. We all see what having the #1 oline in the league gets you. I was just curious as to why Carr is a no go. Wasn't he at the top of the list on this board last year? I am also 100% behind Howell as next year's starter, I agree that his slip from 1st round to 5th was an anomally and I am a big fan of high wonerlic scores. I also love short, mobile, underdog QB's.🤪🤪🤪 

 

I would rather spend money on some good talent on the oline/QB than pay Payne though. That was kind of my point in the original post.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I have been demanding Oline help for decades. We all see what having the #1 oline in the league gets you. I was just curious as to why Carr is a no go. Wasn't he at the top of the list on this board last year? I am also 100% behind Howell as next year's starter, I agree that his slip from 1st round to 5th was an anomally and I am a big fan of high wonerlic scores. I also love short, mobile, underdog QB's.🤪🤪🤪 

 

I would rather spend money on some good talent on the oline/QB than pay Payne though. That was kind of my point in the original post.

Last year we didn’t have a rookie QB.

[Llevron]

 

13 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I have been demanding Oline help for decades. We all see what having the #1 oline in the league gets you. I was just curious as to why Carr is a no go. Wasn't he at the top of the list on this board last year? I am also 100% behind Howell as next year's starter, I agree that his slip from 1st round to 5th was an anomally and I am a big fan of high wonerlic scores. I also love short, mobile, underdog QB's.🤪🤪🤪 

 

I would rather spend money on some good talent on the oline/QB than pay Payne though. That was kind of my point in the original post.

Honestly the biggest reason to stick with Howell over any FA like Carr is the contract. Howell can fail and we can still keep the team together and rebuild the line. Spending all your funds on a QB like Carr would cost us at other positions. 
 

Now, someone elite like Daniel Jones…..

[RandyHolt]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

Well, we wouldn’t need to throw in picks. He’s a free agent. But agree I’m not picking him up and rolling with the guy we drafted.

 

Thanks I knew he was FA and spaced but still I wouldn't put it past us for doing a LV sign and trade since it seems we are always willing to pay a premium. I am also still stinging from getting Wentz and throwing in picks. IIRC we were penalized a pick by meddling for Fat Al before the free agency period began. Inked at 1201am lol.

[Koolblue13]

23 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

And I’m someone who really rates him.

Do you really really rate him?

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Do you really really rate him?

No, that’s one really too many for my taste.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was perhaps the biggest cheerleader here for Carr last off season.  But this off season, I could care less.  If they are high on Howell and I hear they genuinely are then play that card and see where it goes.  But even if I was still into Carr, sounds like just about zero chance they plan to pursue him so the conversation seems a waste of time.

 

Though I do disagree with some of the Carr characterizations here, like he's not clutch, etc-- some of it is wildly off IMO but it doesn't matter. 

 

9th in spending yet we got this pathetic offense in those 4 years, wild. 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

Why is there talk of Carr? We aren’t pursuing him.

 

It’s Sam and whoever we sign to back him  up.

 

If that doesn’t work, the new regime will get a new QB in 24.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Why is there talk of Carr? We aren’t pursuing him.

 

It’s Sam and whoever we sign to back him  up.

 

If that doesn’t work, the new regime will get a new QB in 24.

 

Because it's ES and it's the offseason. If we don't have some sort of QB controversy to go back and forth about we wither and die.

 

As I mentioned before, it was the same with the Wilson, Watson, and Rodgers talk last offseason. Anyone with a working prefrontal cortex knew that none of those guys would be coming here, but that didn't stop some people from hoping and speculating endlessly (and fruitlessly).

[Jumbo]

Wit less. 😈

 

Get it? 😛😁

 

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Wit less. 😈

 

Get it? 😛😁

 

Carr Will probably go with the Jets, what an organization! 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Carr Will probably go with the Jets, what an organization! 

 

The vast majority of QBs would probably go to the Jets before coming here, assuming there's not a huge gap in the money. That may be different right now since there's a potential ownership change, but not before.

 

We've had the worst owner, the worst facilities, the worst stadium, the worst attendance, a ****ty front office, toxic work environment with loads of controversies and investigations, and not a huge market like New York or some other areas. The only thing we've had going for us the last couple of years is a decent and respected coach who's trying to fix the culture and few talented weapons. But that's not going to be enough to offset all the other crap.

 

Face it. We've been bottom of the barrel for a little while now. Hopefully that's changing soon, but that's the reality. I know you seem to think that players only care about the money, but that's complete bull**** most of the time.

 

If I have a job offer from a company that has a good culture and work environment and another equal (or even somewhat better) offer from another company that I know has a **** culture and toxic work environment, I'm sure as hell not going to choose the latter.

 

NFL players may be millionaires but they're still humans, and humans usually don't want to work in toxic environments, unless they're toxic as well and would fit right in.

[Jumbo]

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Carr Will probably go with the Jets, what an organization! 

 

Nope, don't think so. Maybe Saints first.

 

Never know with qb deals, though.

[wit33]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The vast majority of QBs would probably go to the Jets before coming here, assuming there's not a huge gap in the money. That may be different right now since there's a potential ownership change, but not before.

 

Why Cleveland and Denver for the last two top QBs in the previous off season? Those organizations are dumpsters. 

 

Not surprising Davante Adams and Tyreke Hill went to dumpster organizations either— MONEY

 

I will concede Washington hasn’t been a great option for a veteran QB for many seasons, rarely has Washington created momentum from year to year. 

 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

We've had the worst owner, the worst facilities, the worst stadium, the worst attendance, a ****ty front office, toxic work environment with loads of controversies and investigations, and not a huge market like New York or some other areas. The only thing we've had going for us the last couple of years is a decent and respected coach who's trying to fix the culture and few talented weapons. But that's not going to be enough to offset all the other crap.

 

The vast majority of players love Dan Snyder from what I’ve read over the years. 
 

I agree on Ron working to improve organizational culture. With that said, Jay and company were able to acquire Garçon, Jackson, Norman etc., with a poor culture. Washington free agents have chosen to remain Allen, Mcclaurin, Chase and by all reports Payne would like to remain.
 

 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Face it. We've been bottom of the barrel for a little while now. Hopefully that's changing soon, but that's the reality. I know you seem to think that players only care about the money, but that's complete bull**** most of the time.

 

100% believe players value money and opportunity (playing time and role) above all else — the hamburger and fries, everything is like the ketchup.
 

I’ll concede teams in states with no taxes such as Texas and Florida have an advantage (destination spots). To a lesser degree weather and location can play a role, especially later in a guys career when they have families. My point is directed more strongly towards the 24-26 year old seeking their 1st contract post rookie deal—These dudes can careless about what Bruce Allen did 7 years ago or Dan Snyder. 
 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

If I have a job offer from a company that has a good culture and work environment and another equal (or even somewhat better) offer from another company that I know has a **** culture and toxic work environment, I'm sure as hell not going to choose the latter.

 

Rarely are things equal in the free agent market though. The weaker/poorly ran franchises with poor culture often are the ones with the greatest amount of cash to spend and will sign the next best crop of free agents. 
 

The poor FO culture has very little impact on a player when grading on an NFL curve. The majority of NFL organizations will run through their GM and coach in 2-3 years. Parity is the sweet way to gift wrap and deliver to the fans versus a league full of mediocrity (the 70%). 
 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

NFL players may be millionaires but they're still humans, and humans usually don't want to work in toxic environments, unless they're toxic as well and would fit right in.

Yawn. 
 

I don’t believe the players feel they’re in a toxic work environment. No inside sources, maybe I’m wrong. 

[method man]

9 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

Nope, don't think so. Maybe Saints first.

 

Never know with qb deals, though.

They can’t afford him

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The vast majority of QBs would probably go to the Jets before coming here, assuming there's not a huge gap in the money. That may be different right now since there's a potential ownership change, but not before.

 

We've had the worst owner, the worst facilities, the worst stadium, the worst attendance, a ****ty front office, toxic work environment with loads of controversies and investigations, and not a huge market like New York or some other areas. The only thing we've had going for us the last couple of years is a decent and respected coach who's trying to fix the culture and few talented weapons. But that's not going to be enough to offset all the other crap.

 

Face it. We've been bottom of the barrel for a little while now. Hopefully that's changing soon, but that's the reality. I know you seem to think that players only care about the money, but that's complete bull**** most of the time.

 

If I have a job offer from a company that has a good culture and work environment and another equal (or even somewhat better) offer from another company that I know has a **** culture and toxic work environment, I'm sure as hell not going to choose the latter.

 

NFL players may be millionaires but they're still humans, and humans usually don't want to work in toxic environments, unless they're toxic as well and would fit right in.

It’s certainly not as bad as here but the Jets are closer to this team than the Steelers on the spectrum of dysfunctional franchise

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The vast majority of QBs would probably go to the Jets before coming here, assuming there's not a huge gap in the money. That may be different right now since there's a potential ownership change, but not before.

 

We've had the worst owner, the worst facilities, the worst stadium, the worst attendance, a ****ty front office, toxic work environment with loads of controversies and investigations, and not a huge market like New York or some other areas. The only thing we've had going for us the last couple of years is a decent and respected coach who's trying to fix the culture and few talented weapons. But that's not going to be enough to offset all the other crap.

 

 

I know some players have leaked that they believe exactly what you are saying.  I know some agents have said the same.  And yeah for some odd reason the players have followed up on this with stories about Stafford not wanting to come here, Russell Wilson, Rodgers, etc -- and these dudes didn't end up here in spite of our interest but that's all just wild coincidence.  Also, deep down, we all know, no means yes.   

 

The dumpster fire element is exactly apparently why players want to be here. But sadly there are teams who are even greater dumpster fires, hence Wilson wanted to go to Denver not here.  I gather I ditto Stafford with the Rams, etc.

 

There has nothing changed for the worse with this organization since you name the year lets say for example 2017 -- the stadium and facilities are in the exact same state and exactly as comparable to the rest of the league years ago versus now.  Zero attrition.    Rumors we went from mid level attendance to dead last but its hard for me to believe.  Ditto stories about the stadium literally falling apart.  Some say the facilities aren't even in the league of the typical college team let alone an NFL team but that's silly, who cares?  JLC suggested some players cares but all know he's a hater.

 

There have really been no changes at all as to the narrative about Dan, its exactly the same today as name that era -- some say there are some rumors about law suits and Congressional investigations and that the team is roasted as the sleaze ball team in the league nationally.  But players laugh that off. 

 

And heck if Clinton Portis wanted to hang with Dan in Vegas, Clinton loved the dude years ago, can you imagine how someone like Aaron Rodgers would love to spend some free time with Dan?  Chug some Crown Royal down and laugh at all us peons? 

 

Yeah the media kicks in with nonsense story after story.  Pretending that other places are better destinations.    It's odd and frustrating when they do that.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35657821/derek-carr-best-fits-free-agency-nfl-teams-quarterback-needs-salary-cap-space

What kind of deal could Carr command?

It is worth noting any team signing Carr at this point would be giving him an entirely new contract. What he was making with the Raiders is irrelevant. What he'll end up getting is anyone's guess, but midrange starting quarterback money starts around $35 million a year right now, and if there are enough teams competing for Carr's services, he might be able to push it higher than $40 million. Of course, it being an all-new contract, Carr's team will be able to structure it in a way (if it so chooses) to keep the first-year cap number low by building in a large signing bonus. In terms of available comps for Carr, "Competent Starting Quarterbacks Released in February With Three Years Left on Their Contracts" is a fairly narrow category, so this will be interesting to watch.

 

---

New York Jets

Pros: Really good-looking young roster, complete with star-level talent at wide receiver, running back (assuming a successful return from injury by Breece Hall) and on defense. Heck, they have the current Offensive and Defensive Rookies of the Year in Garrett Wilson and Sauce Gardner! This team got pretty much nothing at all from the quarterback position in 2022 and was still in playoff contention in December. They're up against the salary cap right now, but there's plenty of contract fat on their roster that can be cut to make room. They might be desperate enough to outbid other teams for him.s

 

Washington Commanders

At this writing, they still don't have an offensive coordinator. Ron Rivera is another coach who'll be on "hot seat" watch going into next season (especially if the team has a new owner). It's a high-pressure market for a guy who bristles at outside criticism the way Carr does. And I don't know... maybe things will change if the team gets sold, but there's something about this franchise. It just seems like bad stuff is always going on around there. Just kind of a high "ick" factor to the place, right? Not sure a ton of guys are dying to go play there.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

11 hours ago, wit33 said:

Carr Will probably go with the Jets, what an organization! 

The Jets have a quality roster - but are even worse off than us at QB. They swung and missed with Wilson. Time for them to swing again. 

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig

 

Anyone in the $2M to $5M a year with a bag of Cheetos as the guarantee range is obviously not viewed by anyone as a ‘starter’. If they were they would have far better options than signing here as a (presumed) backup.

 

Heinicke has shown he can get you through some games at least competitively and he’s well liked in the locker room. We could do a lot worse than bring him back.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The Jets have a quality roster - but are even worse off than us at QB. They swung and missed with Wilson. Time for them to swing again. 

Anyone in the $2M to $5M a year with a bag of Cheetos as the guarantee range is obviously not viewed by anyone as a ‘starter’. If they were they would have far better options than signing here as a (presumed) backup.

 

Heinicke has shown he can get you through some games at least competitively and he’s well liked in the locker room. We could do a lot worse than bring him back.

 

I am ok with bringing back Heinicke as a backup.  But part of me wants him gone, I have some Heinicke fatigue.  Especially with Howell's mobility, I wouldn't mind someone who can run to some extent especially if the new system goes heavier RPO as some suspect.  Heinicke can run RPOs but what's the point if running is hardly ever the option with him -- he doesn't want to run it seems.  Mariota, Trubisky, etc.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with bringing back Heinicke as a backup.  But part of me wants him gone, I have some Heinicke fatigue.  Especially with Howell's mobility, I wouldn't mind someone who can run to some extent especially if the new system goes heavier RPO as some suspect.  Heinicke can run RPOs but what's the point if running is hardly even the option with him -- he doesn't want to run it seems.

I get it. To be fair if I was Heinickes size in the NFL I don’t think I’d opt to keep much either 🙂 And I roughly am …

 

We could do a lot worse though. 
 

Actually having a backup with West Coast roots would not be a bad idea - someone to help everyone with the (I assume) transition in verbage.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

I get it. To be fair if I was Heinickes size in the NFL I don’t think I’d opt to keep much either 🙂 And I roughly am …

 

We could do a lot worse though. 
 

Actually having a backup with West Coast roots would not be a bad idea - someone to help everyone with the (I assume) transition in verbage.

 

Dalton in theory I think is ideal.  He worked in Nagy's system for a year, knows Zampese.   Wonder though if his surprise good season in NO makes him out of our range or NO keeps him.  Brissett is intriguing to me but he might be too good where he threatens the starting job.

 

Mariota intrigues me if the story checks out for what happened at the end of last season -- previously he was known as very high character.   

[method man]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Dalton in theory I think is ideal.  He worked in Nagy's system for a year, knows Zampese.   Wonder though if his surprise good season in NO makes him out of our range or NO keeps him.  Brissett is intriguing to me but he might be too good where he threatens the starting job.

 

Mariota intrigues me if the story checks out for what happened at the end of last season -- previously he was known as very high character.   

 

Unless NO loves Tanner McKee or believes Jameis Winston should be the starter moving forward, they have to find a way to keep Dalton. They lack the ammo in terms of cap room and draft capital to do anything big. Their idiotic trade last year with the Eagles has effectively prevented them from drafting a QB with what would've been the #10 overall pick.

[Conn]

We’ll be getting Mariota’s side of that story finally, funny enough. He’s on that show coming out that follows a QB through the whole season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

We’ll be getting Mariota’s side of that story finally, funny enough. He’s on that show coming out that follows a QB through the whole season. 

 

Yep, that Netflix series should be fun