The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Carsonfanforlife]

What's Herbert done to be ranked so high?

[oraphus]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree with some of this, not all

 

 

 

I dont hate this list.. its pretty close to where I see QBs... feel like 15-20 QBs are interchangeable  

[NoCalMike]

I'd prob have Wentz higher than Tannehill, Mayfield and Mac Jones (for now).  Otherwise can't really complain about his placement.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Carsonfanforlife said:

What's Herbert done to be ranked so high?

Be a top 2-3 young passer in the league? He’s been what everyone hoped Luck would be, in their wildest dreams. Kid’s a stud.

[Hooper]

Herbert is proof that no one knows anything when it comes to drafting QBs.

 

You look at him and think how in the hell was Tua universally considered a better prospect? 

 

I live in LA and have watched almost all of his games. He's a freak. If I was starting a team, I would probably take him one. 

 

Mayfield is the guy I think is really overrated. So physically limited. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Hooper

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

can't possibly count the number of times I've heard that come out of pretty much every single NFL player's mouth. Is that the only phrase they teach in rookie orientation each year or something?

At the end of each and every day …. It’s night.  

[duffy]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

At the end of each and every day …. It’s night.  

"Norway, situated in the Arctic Circle, is called the Land of the Midnight Sun, where from May to late July, the sun actually never sets. This means that for around a period of 76 days, the sun never goes down." 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/travel/destinations/6-places-on-earth-where-the-sun-never-sets/photostory/85897694.cms

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, duffy said:

"Norway, situated in the Arctic Circle, is called the Land of the Midnight Sun, where from May to late July, the sun actually never sets. This means that for around a period of 76 days, the sun never goes down." 

 

 

No wonder the people there 1000 years ago decided to build some boats and go take over some **** down south.

 

They had nothing to do and couldn't even sleep for several months every year.

[TysonM]

17 hours ago, Carsonfanforlife said:

What's Herbert done to be ranked so high?

Apparently a higher than expected number of fans insisting that drafting Herbert was an obvious common sense slam dunk their front office missed out on has a bigger impact on the rankings than one would suspect.

[Skinsinparadise]

I've saw in multiple places Wentz has a rough minicamp.  Accuracy wasn't good.  Chemistry isn't hot with any receiver aside from Dotson. Though I am not worried.  Training camp is everything.  

 

The first mandatory minicamp for the Commanders is now history.

Logan Paulsen and Craig Hoffman provided a summary on their “Take Command” podcast, primarily focusing on Carson Wentz and the passing game, as the team heads to training camp, which will begin July 27.

Paulsen pointed to how the offense was humming during the OTAs and everyone was so excited about Wentz.

However, during this minicamp, things changed a bit as Jack Del Rio’s defense began to turn up the intensity and show a few different looks for Wentz and the offense.

 

Paulsen talked of how in the OTAs he thinks Wentz probably threw only about five bad passes during both sessions. However, the former NFL tight end conveyed to Hoffman that he saw Wentz throw seven to 10 bad passes in this shorter time frame this week.

Hoffman vocalized that he wondered how much Del Rio and the defense during OTAs might actually have taken it easy, keeping things simple for the offense, to help build Wentz’s confidence. Hoffman covered the team for some years and no doubt learned this is a very real possibility.

 

Paulsen responded that Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne all definitely looked better, more energized this week. He also pointed to Benjamin St Juste playing the slot, William Jackson III looking more confident.

Hoffman then spoke of how it is only natural that human beings fall into their own set of habits and tendencies. He wondered aloud if Wentz, being someone who will turn 30 in December, is who he is and what improvement there will be can only be minimal. Hoffman interestingly conveyed there won’t be an ‘Ah Ha’ moment for Wentz drastically and suddenly improving his skill set.

 

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2022/06/17/logan-paulsen-and-craig-hoffman-evaluate-washington-commanders-minicamp-carson-wentz/?taid=62ac5c9a5272ff0001d103d9&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

[Mrshadow008]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've saw in multiple places Wentz has a rough minicamp.  Accuracy wasn't good.  Chemistry isn't hot with any receiver aside from Dotson. Though I am not worried.  Training camp is everything.  

 

The first mandatory minicamp for the Commanders is now history.

Logan Paulsen and Craig Hoffman provided a summary on their “Take Command” podcast, primarily focusing on Carson Wentz and the passing game, as the team heads to training camp, which will begin July 27.

Paulsen pointed to how the offense was humming during the OTAs and everyone was so excited about Wentz.

However, during this minicamp, things changed a bit as Jack Del Rio’s defense began to turn up the intensity and show a few different looks for Wentz and the offense.

 

Paulsen talked of how in the OTAs he thinks Wentz probably threw only about five bad passes during both sessions. However, the former NFL tight end conveyed to Hoffman that he saw Wentz throw seven to 10 bad passes in this shorter time frame this week.

Hoffman vocalized that he wondered how much Del Rio and the defense during OTAs might actually have taken it easy, keeping things simple for the offense, to help build Wentz’s confidence. Hoffman covered the team for some years and no doubt learned this is a very real possibility.

 

Paulsen responded that Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne all definitely looked better, more energized this week. He also pointed to Benjamin St Juste playing the slot, William Jackson III looking more confident.

Hoffman then spoke of how it is only natural that human beings fall into their own set of habits and tendencies. He wondered aloud if Wentz, being someone who will turn 30 in December, is who he is and what improvement there will be can only be minimal. Hoffman interestingly conveyed there won’t be an ‘Ah Ha’ moment for Wentz drastically and suddenly improving his skill set.

 

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2022/06/17/logan-paulsen-and-craig-hoffman-evaluate-washington-commanders-minicamp-carson-wentz/?taid=62ac5c9a5272ff0001d103d9&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Could be a combination of a couple things. As noted could be defense turning up intensity. Some of it could be trying out different concepts and things like that by the offense. Some of it could be not having Curtis and the D Focusing on Dotson more. Also keep in mind Leno and Lucas were both out with Saddiq Charles Playing at LT. Now we get to camp and Leno, Terry and Curtis are all on the field with Carson and we start hearing some of this late in camp then I might have some level of concern. I still think we have a big season coming from Wentz. I expect, if what Zampese said is true that the plan is to bomb people out of existence, Carsons yards, ypa, TDs, AND ints to all go up. I do also think that Turners offensive system is likely a better fit for Wentz's skillset than Pederson Or Reich's. So while Paulsen maybe correct in the 'AH HA' moment comment it might not have to be when you match what Wentz is good at with what Turner wants to run.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Could be a combination of a couple things. As noted could be defense turning up intensity. Some of it could be trying out different concepts and things like that by the offense. Some of it could be not having Curtis and the D Focusing on Dotson more. Also keep in mind Leno and Lucas were both out with Saddiq Charles Playing at LT. Now we get to camp and Leno, Terry and Curtis are all on the field with Carson and we start hearing some of this late in camp then I might have some level of concern. I still think we have a big season coming from Wentz. I expect, if what Zampese said is true that the plan is to bomb people out of existence, Carsons yards, ypa, TDs, AND ints to all go up. I do also think that Turners offensive system is likely a better fit for Wentz's skillset than Pederson Or Reich's. So while Paulsen maybe correct in the 'AH HA' moment comment it might not have to be when you match what Wentz is good at with what Turner wants to run.

 

If I followed the article right its Hoffman (who hated the deal, and doesn't think much of Wentz) made the Ah Ha comment.

 

I buy the struggles because others including Standig said he looked rough in minicamp.

 

But I'll worry if its training camp, not now.  Good to see the defense woke up though. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

1 hour ago, TysonM said:

Apparently a higher than expected number of fans insisting that drafting Herbert was an obvious common sense slam dunk their front office missed out on has a bigger impact on the rankings than one would suspect.

Um I would expect it’s just because he’s an elite young QB who hasn’t even reached his ceiling yet.

 

Most intellectually honest fans know he kind of came out of nowhere, being this good. Obviously the Chargers had an inkling, and it’s what scouts get paid to figure out. So in that regard, yeah fans probably stubbornly wish their respective FO’s had been the ones to see stardom in his scouting reports. But most admit he’s been way better than expected, I don’t think it effects perception of him the way you’re saying. Sounds to me like you’ve just had some frustrating arguments with people who insist it would have been reasonable to draft Herbert over Young at the time lol. 

[Chris 44]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I followed the article right its Hoffman (who hated the deal, and doesn't think much of Wentz) made the Ah Ha comment.

 

I buy the struggles because others including Standig said he looked rough in minicamp.

 

But I'll worry if its training camp, not now.  Good to see the defense woke up though. 

A certain Terry Mclaurin may also help role coverage away from Dotson, opening things up a little more for Wentz also? Drop in Curtis Samuel on a more regular basis as he works his way back, in addition to Logan, things should open up even more.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Reports of the defense taking a big step up and making it awkward for QB's including Wentz are the reason for McLaurin's deal getting focus.

 

I think without McLaurin there, they realized:

1) Drafting Dotson was clutch

2) Samuel needs a pitch count

3) Our other WR's are still bad, and aren't going to do anything.

 

No McLaurin and it magnified the lack of WR depth.  Given Samuels soft tissue injury history, I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted another WR on Day 2 next year to eventually take over the Slot role once Samuels contract is up.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

A certain Terry Mclaurin may also help role coverage away from Dotson, opening things up a little more for Wentz also? Drop in Curtis Samuel on a more regular basis as he works his way back, in addition to Logan, things should open up even more.

 

Sure.    Also, while I've defended Wentz plenty on this thread, I am not in the camp that he's been a top 10 QB for most of his career.  To me @goskins10 nailed it in my book weeks ago saying if I recall he's somewhere between 12 and 20.  I agree, I'd say close to 15.  What is one of the bigger things that seperate the great QBs from the good -- that would be consistency.  That's true in any sport. 

 

As much as I think the Colts and the national media's rips of Wentz have been over the top and wrong.  I don't think the criticism of Wentz being a streaky -- hot and cold QB is wrong. That point is backed by friend and foe of Wentz.   Plus going through his box score game by game, you can see the hot and cold element to his game.  It's clear as a bell.  We posted some of those stats here weeks back. 

 

My point is while I goofed on the Colts overplaying Ryan as he's some kind of Tom Brady -- conversely I don't think we have a Brady clone either with his type of consistency.  I do buy that Wentz will be a wild ride with some great games and some stinkers, too.  So Wentz having some bad practices would flow with that.  He likely will have bad games, too.  I still think getting a 2nd tier QB with his type of upside is a good move and we end up happy with this.  But I am braced for a bit of a roller coaster considering that's his reputation and even those who really dig Wentz own up to that point.  

Edited June 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

lol, i am sticking with the national media mostly loved the moves for McNabb, Alex, and Brunell.   For different reasons, they didn't end up killer deals with the benefit of hindsight.  So good omen that they are trashing this one nonstop. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

For the record, Bleacher Report says stuff just to say stuff. Bleacher Report also criticized the Steelers selecting Kenny Pickett, citing his hand size will prove difficult to play in weather at a place like Heinz Field that's open to the elements.  This is despite Pickett playing for years at Heinz field in college because that's where University of Pittsburgh plays.

 

https://steelersdepot.com/2022/05/bleacher-report-believes-steelers-kenny-pickett-drafted-by-the-wrong-team/

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

For the record, Bleacher Report says stuff just to say stuff. Bleacher Report also criticized the Steelers selecting Kenny Pickett, citing his hand size will prove difficult to play in weather at a place like Heinz Field that's open to the elements.  This is despite Pickett playing for years at Heinz field in college because that's where University of Pittsburgh plays.

If you're writing for the internet, there is literally no reason to do any research.  In fact, it's frowned upon.

 

HOWEVER, it should be noted, after extreme statistical weather analysis, even though they play their games in the same stadium, during the same time of year, often separated by only one day, analysis shows Pitt played in consistent 75 deg weather with no precipitation, and the Steelers were less lucky, so all of their games were played in either biblical rains, sub-zero temperature OR a driving blizzard.  ALSO, it's a known fact Pickett's hands are SMALLER on Sunday than on Saturday. 

 

Since this is posted on the Internet, it must be true.  

[Chris 44]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If you're writing for the internet, there is literally no reason to do any research.  In fact, it's frowned upon.

 

HOWEVER, it should be noted, after extreme statistical weather analysis, even though they play their games in the same stadium, during the same time of year, often separated by only one day, analysis shows Pitt played in consistent 75 deg weather with no precipitation, and the Steelers were less lucky, so all of their games were played in either biblical rains, sub-zero temperature OR a driving blizzard.  ALSO, it's a known fact Pickett's hands are SMALLER on Sunday than on Saturday. 

 

Since this is posted on the Internet, it must be true.  

Yeah, something to do with el-nino I think. There was a two part mini series documentary on this on the weather channel sometime back. It was also linked to Howells aversion for red meat.

 

Holy crap...how long is it again until training camp?

Edited June 17, 2022 by Chris 44

[KDawg]

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If you're writing for the internet, there is literally no reason to do any research.  In fact, it's frowned upon.

 

HOWEVER, it should be noted, after extreme statistical weather analysis, even though they play their games in the same stadium, during the same time of year, often separated by only one day, analysis shows Pitt played in consistent 75 deg weather with no precipitation, and the Steelers were less lucky, so all of their games were played in either biblical rains, sub-zero temperature OR a driving blizzard.  ALSO, it's a known fact Pickett's hands are SMALLER on Sunday than on Saturday. 

 

Since this is posted on the Internet, it must be true.  

Well, despite the absolute hilarity in this response...

 

The NFL season goes later than college and the weather turns significantly in Pittsburgh in that time frame.

 

Also, Pickett's hands were an issue at the Senior Bowl and at Pitt and will be an issue in the NFL. Now... the question is: How big of an issue? Everyone has weaknesses, so if he minimizes that issue he's going to do well. He has the tools. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/17/2022 at 10:00 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Sure.    Also, while I've defended Wentz plenty on this thread, I am not in the camp that he's been a top 10 QB for most of his career.  To me @goskins10 nailed it in my book weeks ago saying if I recall he's somewhere between 12 and 20.  I agree, I'd say close to 15.  What is one of the bigger things that seperate the great QBs from the good -- that would be consistency.  That's true in any sport. 

Going back to January, I separated QBs into 3 groups:

 

1. The ~15-17 people walking the earth who absolutely deserve a starting NFL Job. My contention is there are rarely 17 known deserving starters at any given point in time, where every one of the 32 teams would say, "yeah, that guy is a starter in the NFL."  Granted, some are better than others, but there is no denying these players should have one of the 32 jobs. 

2. The group of players who are in their first 1-2 years, and we don't know yet if they are going to be in group 1 or not.

3. Everybody else.

 

Wentz is, right now, in category 1.  Which puts him somewhere in the mix between 10-17. 

 

** I'm not including Watson anywhere.  I'm pretending he doesn't exist until his legal problems are cleared up and we know if/when he's going to play. 

 

Group 1: (no real order)

- Mahomes

- Josh Allen

- Burrow

- Rodgers

- Justin Herbert

- Tom Brady

- Lamar Jackson

- Russell WIlson

- Matt Ryan

- Derrick Carr

- Ryan Tannehill

- Kyler Murray

- Dak

- Jimmy G.

- Carson Wentz

- Kirk Cousins

- Matt Stafford

 

(That's 17, so exactly dead on from my theory.  Thank you @SkinsFTW for pointing out my Herbert duplication.)

 

Group 2: 

- Trevor Lawrence
- Davis Mills

- Tua

- Mac Jones

- Zach Wilson

- Matt Corral

- Justin Fields

- Kenny Pickett

- Jalen Hurts

 (That's 9)

 

Group 3:

- Marcus Mariota

- Sam Darnold

- Jared Goff

- Jameis Winston

- Daniel Jones

- Drew Lock

- Geno Smith

- Tyrod Taylor

- Mitch

- Baker (He's probably the best of this group.  But the Browns just brought Watson with his baggage and paid him $230m guaranteed, so he can't be THAT good, right?

 

... (There are some others which could go here, but I'll leave it at this list.  

 

I think Wentz is firmly in that first group.  He deserves to be a starting QB in the league, and if you asked any GM (not named Ballard), they would probably tell you the same thing.  

 

I think he's towards the bottom end of that list, which would put him somewhere between 12-18.  

 

So, that's a long way of saying, I agree.  Wentz was always on my list of "17 people walking the earth who deserves one of the 32 starting jobs." list.  

 

On 6/17/2022 at 1:23 PM, KDawg said:

Well, despite the absolute hilarity in this response...

 

The NFL season goes later than college and the weather turns significantly in Pittsburgh in that time frame.

 

Also, Pickett's hands were an issue at the Senior Bowl and at Pitt and will be an issue in the NFL. Now... the question is: How big of an issue? Everyone has weaknesses, so if he minimizes that issue he's going to do well. He has the tools. 

It does, but Pickett has played in bad weather.  He wasn't my favorite QB in the draft, well, I really didn't like any of them, if I'm being honest (though I do now worship at the feet of the great nugget eating wonder who is on our team, as he is destined to become a transcendent QB the likes of which we have never seen)

 

It is true the NFL season goes longer.  That's a fair point.  

Edited June 19, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

It does, but Pickett has played in bad weather.  He wasn't my favorite QB in the draft, well, I really didn't like any of them, if I'm being honest (though I do now worship at the feet of the great nugget eating wonder who is on our team, as he is destined to become a transcendent QB the likes of which we have never seen)

 

It is true the NFL season goes longer.  That's a fair point.  

 

And he has struggled in bad weather as well. Pickett is kind of an unknown... He had a ridiculously fantastic senior year, but the rest of his career he was sub-par or par. Now, he could turn out to be Joe Burrow. I don't think so, but there is precedent for that kind of leap.

 

Or he could have had a great year 4 years into a situation where he was comfortable. 

 

We'll see soon.

 

I do think he wound up in the 100% best place he could possibly end up in to find success. Pittsburgh makes his transition to the pros so much easier. He's used to the city, knows the area, knows the stadium... so some of that comfort is already built in. As someone who wasn't high on Pickett at all as a general prospect, I am MUCH higher on his chance of success where he's at. I actually think he's going to do well. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I do think he wound up in the 100% best place he could possibly end up in to find success. Pittsburgh makes his transition to the pros so much easier. He's used to the city, knows the area, knows the stadium... so some of that comfort is already built in. As someone who wasn't high on Pickett at all as a general prospect, I am MUCH higher on his chance of success where he's at. I actually think he's going to do well. 

Also, say what you want about Tomlin and his X's and O's, and philosophy being too old school, not managing the clock well, whatever, he's an exceptionally good coach and his teams are always prepared.  

 

You're right, it's a great situation for Pickett.  It would have been a great situation for any QB who landed there.  They managed to win games last year with a QB who couldn't throw the ball through a pane of glass.  

[MrJL]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Group 3:

- Marcus Mariota

- Sam Darnold

- Jared Goff

- Jameis Winston

- Daniel Jones

- Drew Lock

- Geno Smith

- Tyrod Taylor

- Mitch

- Baker (He's probably the best of this group.  But the Browns just brought Watson with his baggage and paid him $230m guaranteed, so he can't be THAT good, right?

 

 

 

consider the strong possibility that the Browns are idiots