Voice_of_Reason Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: There is more than just one poster here who would be OK with him as the bridge QB. Ok 2 that post a lot. I'll give you maybe 20 total. 31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: The point is top end QB to be a playoff team, not mid tier, as he sees Jimmy G. Yeah, I get that. I don't entirely agree, as the 49ers have made the playoffs and the NFC Championship game 2 of the last 3 years. And we saw first hand what happens when Jimmy is out, as we played them last year, and they were incompetent on offense and lost to a (mostly) Haskins led WFT. Again, I think Jimmy can lead a team to the playoffs. I guess maybe I value him a bit higher. Not a ton higher, but a little bit higer. 31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Besides the 95% people, I'd include most from PFF in that group, I've heard others from PFF really slam Trubisky. He's not even in their top 100 FA list. I just relistened to it so this dude is higher on him than some of his colleagues at PFF. As for Trubisky, he talked about showing his ceiling in the 2018 season in 4 out of his first 5 games. He'd be more willing to bet on Trubsky than he would on Jimmy G because of his mobility. If you can get him on a one year contract, he thought it was fine. Re-listening to it, he didn't come off effusive that Trubisky would be the solution. Came off more that he can see that gamble better than Jimmy G or riding with Heinicke. But he didn't say it with a hold your nose kind of voice, he was cool with it. I mean, the question would be, which would you rather have: 1. Jimmy G. for a 2nd + something compensation, and probably a $30M/year AAV contract extension OR 2. Mitch for $5-8M/year and no draft compensation. Jimmy has a MUCH better track record as a winner. And from what I hear, a leader. Mitch has some physical skills, has been good at times, but also absolutely awful at times. Jimmy would be expected to elevate the team immediately to playoff status at a minimum. Mitch would be seen as a reclamation project, and would almost have to be paired with a rookie in any sceanrio. I personally prefer the Mitch + Rookie route IF and ONLY IF the coaching staff has a guy in the draft they think can be a top-10 starter, but is too raw to play right away. If they don't think they have a top 10 starter in the league in the draft, then I'd probably go the Jimmy G. route, sign him to an extension for 3 years, and then trade up in the 2023 or 2024 draft (like the Chiefs did to get Mahomes while still having Alex Smith sitting there. Of course, I prefer getting Rodgers + Adams as option 1. Or Wilson + Adams. 31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: So Bram was speculating that if McDaniels goes to the Raiders, it's possible he could trade for Jimmy instead of keeping Carr, since we know that McDaniels really likes Jimmy. Which would make Carr available, and Jimmy might be somewhat cheaper to sign to an extension. He further speculated McDaniels might be going to Vegas because he thinks he could get Watson. He brought up the point that keeping Carr without extending him makes little sense, so if they keep him, they have to extend him, and THAT'S really the decision. And if you're a new coach and Jimmy is your guy, would you prefer to trade for Jimmy (let's say that takes a #1 when all is said and done, extend Jimmy, then flip Carr to (let's just say us) for 2#1s? That doesn't sound so bad for the raiders assuming they really like Jimmy. If they don't, then this whole thing falls apart. You end up with a QB you like for the next 3-4 years minimum + an extra fist round pick. Shrug? It could happen? 31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I hear you but I want to seperate them. 😀 I do think for example that Dak > Carr. So those guys IMO in my mind are a half a peg better than the next group. Oh, I'm all for separating them. I just didn't get the difference between Tier 1 and Tier 1A. Which are separate. So by it's very nature, Tier 1A is tier 2. I'm just being pedantic. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Doesn't Rivera want a preference on QB's who can buy time and evade the pocket? From this chart, doesn't look like Jimmy G does that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) The Carr thing sucks we had a shot if they were moving him. Edited January 30, 2022 by Redskins 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I mean, the question would be, which would you rather have: 1. Jimmy G. for a 2nd + something compensation, and probably a $30M/year AAV contract extension OR 2. Mitch for $5-8M/year and no draft compensation. Jimmy has a MUCH better track record as a winner. And from what I hear, a leader. Mitch has some physical skills, has been good at times, but also absolutely awful at times. Jimmy would be expected to elevate the team immediately to playoff status at a minimum. IMO Jimmy > Trubisky. But i don't want to give up major trade compensation to get Jimmy G. So to me its all about price. If they traded a first for Jimmy G and gave him a fat contract, I'd hate the deal even more than I hated the Alex deal at the time. If they gave up a third and didn't extend him for long or with much of a salary cap hit i'd prefer Jimmy G. For Jimmy G to me the devil would be in the details. 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: 1. Jimmy G. for a 2nd + something compensation, and probably a $30M/year AAV contract extension OR 2. Mitch for $5-8M/year and no draft compensation. If its 30 million, I'd rather have Trubisky. 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So Bram was speculating that if McDaniels goes to the Raiders, it's possible he could trade for Jimmy instead of keeping Carr, since we know that McDaniels really likes Jimmy. Which would make Carr available, and Jimmy might be somewhat cheaper to sign to an extension. He further speculated McDaniels might be going to Vegas because he thinks he could get Watson. He brought up the point that keeping Carr without extending him makes little sense, so if they keep him, they have to extend him, and THAT'S really the decision. And if you're a new coach and Jimmy is your guy, would you prefer to trade for Jimmy (let's say that takes a #1 when all is said and done, extend Jimmy, then flip Carr to (let's just say us) for 2#1s? That doesn't sound so bad for the raiders assuming they really like Jimmy. If they don't, then this whole thing falls apart. You end up with a QB you like for the next 3-4 years minimum + an extra fist round pick. Shrug? It could happen? Oh, I'm all for separating them. I just didn't get the difference between Tier 1 and Tier 1A. Which are separate. So by it's very nature, Tier 1A is tier 2. I'm just being pedantic. Yeah that would be cool. As i mentioned the other day, Standig lol just seems to want to poop on any party related to the QB spot. I like Standig but he's so over the top pessimistic about anything related to QBs so far this off season. So yeah as for his mention forget about Carr, he could be wrong. I'd love Carr. Keim has talked about Carr as I mentioned multiple podcasts recently and has indicated we'd have interest. Edited January 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: A bad NFL caliber QB will net us more wins than with Heinicke. Can careless about Heineke, but believe QB 14-30 would be unable to move the needle much more than a Heineke if at the cost of 10-16% of the cap. Especially if the dude lacks mobility and playmaking skills. Just say no to middle tier QBs and providing generational wealth for competence. It’s death to a regime and franchise temporarily. Edited January 30, 2022 by wit33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: IMO Jimmy > Trubisky. But i don't want to give up major trade compensation to get Jimmy G. So to me its all about price. If they traded a first for Jimmy G and gave him a fat contract, I'd hate the deal even more than I hated the Alex deal at the time. If they gave up a third and didn't extend him for long or with much of a salary cap hit i'd prefer Jimmy G. For Jimmy G to me the devil would be in the details. If its 30 million, I'd rather have Trubisky. Yeah that would be cool. As i mentioned the other day, Standig lol just seems to want to poop on any party related to the QB spot. I like Standig but he's so over the top pessimistic about anything related to QBs so far this off season. So yeah as for his mention forget about Carr, he could be wrong. I'd love Carr. Keim has talked about Carr as I mentioned multiple podcasts recently and has indicated we'd have interest. That would be great if Carr worked out that way for us. Trubisky name being dropped alot of places I think he will be in 8 to 10 million range. With Tampa most likely needing a Qb the price for JimmyG is probably not going to be worth it. We may have to overpay for Trubisky but I hope they get the QB they want this year. Edited January 30, 2022 by Redskins 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Okay, just a brain wave, but could the Raiders hiring McDaniels be a precursor to TB12 going to Vegas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Just now, Birdlives said: Okay, just a brain wave, but could the Raiders hiring McDaniels be a precursor to TB12 going to Vegas? Why would he leave Tampa? He still has a great roster there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Why would he leave Tampa? He still has a great roster there. That and jumping ship to the AFC seems anti productive towards the goals of championships. Maybe being in the NFC will help us a bit in our own QB hunt more than I thought. Who wants to play against Mahomes and Allen and Burrow and Herbert and Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) I don't think he will be available what will Russell Wilson cost. I think at least 3 first rounders and more. Edited January 30, 2022 by Redskins 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Why would he leave Tampa? He still has a great roster there. I don’t know, maybe just the billions in marketing alone. 39 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: That and jumping ship to the AFC seems anti productive towards the goals of championships. Maybe being in the NFC will help us a bit in our own QB hunt more than I thought. Who wants to play against Mahomes and Allen and Burrow and Herbert and Jackson no big time QBs, especially not Tom Brady thinks he can’t beat everybody. The idea that these guys pick the weakest division is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 One thing is for sure watching this Bengals game and how crappy their oline is, WFT has the oline to support just about any upgrade at QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Clearly, Maholmes is a choking bum. Still he might be worth a reclamation shot. I say we offer Kansas Landon Collins and a fourth rounder for Maholmes Edited January 30, 2022 by Burgold 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, Burgold said: Clearly, Maholmes is a choking bum. Still he might be worth a reclamation shot. I say we offer Kansas Landon Collins and a fourth rounder for Maholmes Too rich for my blood, we also need to restructure his contract to vet min + incentives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 It’s insane how much the QB balance of power has shifted to the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert are all top 5 QBs, all are under 26, and all in the AFC. Plus Rodgers may end up with Denver. That would leave the NFC with… Stafford, Wilson, Kyler, and Dak as the best? Those guys are good but not even close to the same class. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: Too rich for my blood, we also need to restructure his contract to vet min + incentives. Damn. You're right! My bad. Maybe we could ask Kansas to pick up part of his salary. Just now, skinsfan_1215 said: It’s insane how much the QB balance of power has shifted to the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert are all top 5 QBs, all are under 26, and all in the AFC. Plus Rodgers may end up with Denver. That would leave the NFC with… Stafford, Wilson, Kyler, and Dak as the best? Those guys are good but not even close to the same class. I think that's true, but I didn't get the sense that Bengals v Chiefs was about superlative QB play. It was much more about playing within system and the defense tightening up in the second half. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Burrow is a good example (I think Herbert too) at how big a difference having a QB that can make even when they are still young and not a finished product. This is why you go out and do what it takes to get a difference maker at the position as son as the opportunity presents itself versus just trying to settle for a game manager on the cheap. Oh and wow Jimmy G just missed a wide open Kittle that is likely still running if the pass is thrown anywhere close to him. If the 49ers had any other QB that is remaining in the playoffs they might be unbeatable the way the 49ers defense and running game can dominate a game. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 hours ago, wit33 said: Can careless about Heineke, but believe QB 14-30 would be unable to move the needle much more than a Heineke if at the cost of 10-16% of the cap. Especially if the dude lacks mobility and playmaking skills. Just say no to middle tier QBs and providing generational wealth for competence. It’s death to a regime and franchise temporarily. OK, so how you getting a top tier guy and who is actually available? We are entering or in the midst of a league where there are more QB vacancies than guys available to fill the spots. It's easy to say TH isn't the answer...look at the Browns, how many high 1st round QB's have they drafted in the last 20 years? How bout developing a QB and living with his growing pains while coaching him up? Everyone wants a quick fix, snap your fingers and here comes Patrick Mahomes. It's not that simple. I think Trubisky is a very good reclamation project where another team has already done much of the work with him. Kick the tires on him and continue coaching up TH or even Kyle Allen. It takes a full roster to win a SB and that's the quickest way to win over hoping you find the next Tom Brady. I've waited almost 40 years for a guy like Theismann and even he wasn't a stud. Develop someone and get playmakers around him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Just remember there was a time Haskins was considered a better player then Burrow . That time has long passed. Edited January 30, 2022 by Redskins 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: I think Trubisky is a very good reclamation project where another team has already done much of the work with him. Kick the tires on him and continue coaching up TH or even Kyle Allen. It takes a full roster to win a SB and that's the quickest way to win over hoping you find the next Tom Brady. I've waited almost 40 years for a guy like Theismann and even he wasn't a stud. Develop someone and get playmakers around him. A decade or so ago I was fully on board with the concept of drafting/developing and to a certain extent, yes you have to develop a QB regardless of how good they might potentially be down the road, however, what I am also seeing more and more of in the modern era is that the majority of these QBs that go onto to be very good or great even are showing those signs almost immediately. They might turn the ball over too much as rookies or even in their second year, but that is usually balanced out by what they produce. I am not sure how many franchise QBs these days that are taking more than a season or two to show what they are capable of. Having a decent roster around them of course helps, but there is also the matter of the top tier QBs elevating the production of skill position players. If anything a good stout O-line is the biggest need for a young QB and WFT currently has that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Keep building the defense and adding playmakers wherever you can and the wins will follow. The Packers were awful at home against SF in the playoffs even with Aaron Rodgers....it takes more than a 40 million dollar a year QB to win Super Bowls. We are not getting a stud to start this season, there are none available. Look at the Niners roster, it's deep everywhere....power football, great playmakers, good mix of run and pass. This can be us with the youth on our roster. Heinicke beat Brady, Wilson and Carr....regardless of what you think about him as the QB our TEAM was good enough to win those games. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 49 minutes ago, Burgold said: Clearly, Maholmes is a choking bum. Still he might be worth a reclamation shot. I say we offer Kansas Landon Collins and a fourth rounder for Maholmes You're joking, but I guarantee there's going to be hot takes tomorrow about what this means for Mahomes' legacy. Super Bowl winner, Super Bowl loser, then can't make the Super Bowl. Patrick, you're trending in the wrong direction!!! 19 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Burrow is a good example (I think Herbert too) at how big a difference having a QB that can make even when they are still young and not a finished product. This is why you go out and do what it takes to get a difference maker at the position as son as the opportunity presents itself versus just trying to settle for a game manager on the cheap. I'd love to know what bull**** games we won in order to miss out on Burrow and land Chase Young. I hate everything right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctorfro Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Everyone wanted to stand pat last year and draft Chase. I wanted us to somehow move and choose Burrow. Swing and a miss. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I'd love to know what bull**** games we won in order to miss out on Burrow and land Chase Young. I hate everything right now. I mean we could have had Herbert. I’ve said it a few times, Haskins is the gift that just keeps on giving. He was on the roster going into his second year, we weren’t going QB. Hindsight, chase isn’t feeling like the correct pick, but it wasn’t disputed by many here or by the “professional” analysts at the time.6$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mh86 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Doctorfro said: Everyone wanted to stand pat last year and draft Chase. I wanted us to somehow move and choose Burrow. Swing and a miss. Yes because we know the bengals were actively shopping that pick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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