The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, MrJL said:

 

the things I've heard say these guys either are one season wonders, lack high level competion, or lack some NFL intangible.  The way they're talking it sounds like the 2013 class

 

I'm amazed that people listen to this non sense.

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hoping we land Carr instead of Jimmy G.

 

 

[skins island connection]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's my point: he's had next to nothing to do with SF winning games in the postseason unless you consider handing the ball off an onerous responsibility.

 

And I'm not judging him by one game. I'm judging him on all of his playoff games. There's a pattern...and that's him either doing next to nothing or playing crappy and having to be bailed out by the rest of the team.

 

Can you really say that 2 TDs, 5 INTs and averaging under 150 yards passing over 5 games are impressive postseason numbers that immediately say to you "we should definitely give up a high draft pick for this guy"?

There's a word for those type of QBs; they're called "Dilferers". 

 

Geez, i always miss the convos and show up when most are gone/drunk/asleep/uninterested.

I read some posts a few pages back talking about how TH couldn't/wouldn't/won't see the field again. 

So what happens if they trade for a vet QB or get one in the draft, they play decent to good the first year, maybe a postseason in-n-out but the next year plays bad?  Dump him?

 

The one thing I can't wrap my head around is most have seen QBs play great, even win a SB or at least make an appearance, then play bad the next year, yet their team sticks with them?

Why is that? Is it only because they could throw the ball hard? Thats the big fiasco over getting a QB, is for them to have a big arm? 

 

I also read something about TH not being a stop-gap QB? Why the hec not? He, as well as many other QBs over the last 80 years have had an off year, and between covid and losing 3/4 of the weapons and all of a sudden TH sucks? He can't get the job done? 

I' ll let you in on a little secret; its called teamwork. O-line, Wrs, TEs, defenses, STs, ALL playing solid fundamental football, in order to be a viable threat in the playoffs, but some think that they could have stuck Rodgers in place of TH this year and the WFT would be sitting pretty in the playoffs.  HAHAHA.  Thats some funny **** there. With Mr. fumble, losing McKissic, losing Thomas, and the other offensive losses, and covid, and Rodgers could have put this team on his back?  I need some of the stuff ya'll are smoking. 

 

Did TH play good enough to get the team in the playoffs? Hec no, not by a long shot, but with 1 more good WR next season to accompany LcLaurin, provided Thomas and McKissic stay healthy all year, and they get a REAL Defensive Coordinator, not the wanna-be DC now, yea, I do. Absolutely he could get this team into the playoffs, deep. 

 

SIC

 

 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

the things I've heard say these guys either are one season wonders, lack high level competion, or lack some NFL intangible.  The way they're talking it sounds like the 2013 class

 

Er...who is "they"?

 

The only guy who really qualifies as a "one year wonder" is Pickett, and most of them played against some very good teams, especially Corall since he's in the SEC. Which guy did you hear didn't have intangibles? Which intangibles specifically?

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

There's a word for those type of QBs; they're called "Dilferers". 

 

Geez, i always miss the convos and show up when most are gone/drunk/asleep/uninterested.

I read some posts a few pages back talking about how TH couldn't/wouldn't/won't see the field again. 

So what happens if they trade for a vet QB or get one in the draft, they play decent to good the first year, maybe a postseason in-n-out but the next year plays bad?  Dump him?

 

The one thing I can't wrap my head around is most have seen QBs play great, even win a SB or at least make an appearance, then play bad the next year, yet their team sticks with them?

Why is that? Is it only because they could throw the ball hard? Thats the big fiasco over getting a QB, is for them to have a big arm? 

 

I also read something about TH not being a stop-gap QB? Why the hec not? He, as well as many other QBs over the last 80 years have had an off year, and between covid and losing 3/4 of the weapons and all of a sudden TH sucks? He can't get the job done? 

I' ll let you in on a little secret; its called teamwork. O-line, Wrs, TEs, defenses, STs, ALL playing solid fundamental football, in order to be a viable threat in the playoffs, but some think that they could have stuck Rodgers in place of TH this year and the WFT would be sitting pretty in the playoffs.  HAHAHA.  Thats some funny **** there. With Mr. fumble, losing McKissic, losing Thomas, and the other offensive losses, and covid, and Rodgers could have put this team on his back?  I need some of the stuff ya'll are smoking. 

 

Did TH play good enough to get the team in the playoffs? Hec no, not by a long shot, but with 1 more good WR next season to accompany LcLaurin, provided Thomas and McKissic stay healthy all year, and they get a REAL Defensive Coordinator, not the wanna-be DC now, yea, I do. Absolutely he could get this team into the playoffs, deep. 

 

SIC

 

Yes, TH is not a very good quarterback, no matter how many other parts of the team you try to blame (or even if you hilariously try to imply that this team wouldn't have been any better if we had Aaron Rodgers at QB).

 

The problem with your position on this matter is that even the WFT coaches and FO don't agree with you. They've been pretty much open about the fact that they're going hard for a QB this offseason, and it's not Taylor Heinicke. It's crystal clear that they don't see him as the answer, or even a viable bridge.

 

If you disagree, take it up with them.

[redskin301]

I think TH is a really good back up can come in and win a couple games but this team needs a true franchise QB. Honestly two 1st for Carr and some change I’ll be all in 

1 minute ago, redskin301 said:

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by redskin301

[MrJL]

53 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Er...who is "they"?

 

The only guy who really qualifies as a "one year wonder" is Pickett, and most of them played against some very good teams, especially Corall since he's in the SEC. Which guy did you hear didn't have intangibles? Which intangibles specifically?

 

what about Willis as a 1 year guy.  Most of these guys I can't keep straight, just to be clear.  I heard at least one of them lacks NFL arm strength.  Another guy has a pre-existing knee injury combined with already not being mobile.  Aren't one or two of them pretty short?

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

what about Willis as a 1 year guy.  Most of these guys I can't keep straight, just to be clear.  I heard at least one of them lacks NFL arm strength.  Another guy has a pre-existing knee injury combined with already not being mobile.  Aren't one or two of them pretty short?

 

Willis has 2 years of production.

 

They all have NFL arms, but if I had to guess I'd say Pickett has the least. But he still has an NFL arm; there' aren't any 1st round types with "weak" arms in this class. Willis has a cannon, and Corral IMO isn't too far behind him.

 

Carson Strong has a knee issue and isn't especially mobile in general but he's very accurate and has a very good arm. He's more of a 2nd-3rd round guy. Likewise with Ridder. 

 

As far as height, some of the main 1st round guys aren't prototypical but they're not super short. Corral IIRC is either 6'1 or 6'2, Willis is 6'2, Howell is 6'1, Pickett is 6'3. Strong and Ridder are both 6'4.

 

That isn't much of a deal anymore. Kyler Murray is 5'10 and is a top 10 QB, so I don't think 6'1 means much.

[skinny21]

I’m gonna keep trying to bite my tongue regarding TH on here, so I wanna ask a question about Garappolo and the Niners instead.  Some seem to think we’d have won 10 games with Jimmy this year, even with the injuries, defensive issues, tough scheduling, kicker problems, and so on.  Could be.  Presumably though, with an easier schedule, fewer injuries (and so on), we should win… what, 12+ with Garappolo?  Isn’t the implication then that our roster and coaching staff is easily better than the 49ers, who won 9?  Am I missing something? (I may well be)

 

And if someone’s stance is that TH can’t hold JG’s jock strap, why only a 3 game difference?

 

Forgetting all of that though, if Jimmy G is seen as the better plan than going with a 1st round rookie (I hope that’s a smokescreen), that indicates to me that they’re shooting for competence over trying to find/develop a franchise guy, which I think is a huge mistake.  I get that it’s scary to make the big move to a rookie, but build up some good will by trying.  The team’s decent enough to help a rook out.  I actually think that Dan’s patient enough that he may well extend Ron and let him try again on a rook in two years if needed.  Of course, we’re not so patient… though why, after eons of misery we’re suddenly in a “Ron gets one more chance” frame of mind, I have no idea, lol.  I mean, I do, but I don’t.

[Jds0912]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Willis has 2 years of production.

 

They all have NFL arms, but if I had to guess I'd say Pickett has the least. But he still has an NFL arm; there' aren't any 1st round types with "weak" arms in this class. Willis has a cannon, and Corral IMO isn't too far behind him.

 

Carson Strong has a knee issue and isn't especially mobile in general but he's very accurate and has a very good arm. He's more of a 2nd-3rd round guy. Likewise with Ridder. 

 

As far as height, some of the main 1st round guys aren't prototypical but they're not super short. Corral IIRC is either 6'1 or 6'2, Willis is 6'2, Howell is 6'1, Pickett is 6'3. Strong and Ridder are both 6'4.

 

That isn't much of a deal anymore. Kyler Murray is 5'10 and is a top 10 QB, so I don't think 6'1 means much.

It is a big deal unless you have quick feet and good pocket presence to find open passing lanes or drop back quicker. I know from being a qb in high school at 5’10, you have to find ways to see the field and throw the ball even at the high school level. Seems to make a big difference being 6’2+ compared to 6’1-. Guys like Wilson and Murray are super quick with their feet and even Brees was quick within the pocket. Being a fast twitch qb gives you the ability to escape the pocket and find open receivers too. I’m not too high on Howell bc he just looks sluggish when I watch him and he’s not very tall. Almost looks like Baker Mayfield gained his freshman 15. 

[NoCalMike]

Watching the playoffs, perhaps more the Dallas game than Green Bay game, but even that one to a certain extent, if Jimmy G was a better QB the 49ers would have put away the Cowboys by the end of the 3rd quarter.   I think Jimmy G is more in the Cousins tier of QB's you can win with him if your team is built the right way but you aren't going to win a lot of games because of him.  He would be an upgrade over what we have right now, but so would just about every starting QB in the NFL.   Jimmy G has a low ceiling, I think we've seen the best he has to offer.  Now sure, build your roster the way the 49ers have, not try to, but actually DO IT, and perhaps Jimmy G can get the job done, but I don't think he is the kind of QB that elevates those around him.  Living right in the heart of 49ers fan country, the fanbase has gone from being ultra-Jimmy G defenders to being ready to move on in the matter of two seasons.  

 

I'm also a little weary because of how QB-friendly Shanahan's style of the WCO can be.  A lot of quick passing to your skill position players designed to let them do the leg work.  That isn't necessarily a problem except when you are going up against defenses that can stop those short passes without giving up a lot of YAC. I swear Jimmy G throws the same slant route 15 times a game between Kittle, Deebo Samuel, Mosert, Aiyuk, etc etc

 

Am I being too picky? Perhaps, but I am just coming from the POV of wanting a difference maker at QB.  I know that type of QB isn't always available every single offseason though.

Edited January 26, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

 

 

I'd go Carr too easily over Jimmy G.   Though I think Jimmy G is much more likely to be available.

 

I'd go Jimmy G only if he's the last man standing and they can get him without giving up the store both as to a draft pick and money given to him. 

8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

And if someone’s stance is that TH can’t hold JG’s jock strap, why only a 3 game difference?

 

 

Personally I don't think Heinicke is an NFL starter.  Jimmy G clearly is.  A 3 game difference is pretty big. 

[DiscoBob]

10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You should've stopped with your first sentence, Taylor is never starting another game for us, or someone is losing their job.

 

I don't WANT Heinicke to be the starter, but given the choice between:

 

1) Give up draft pick(s) for Jimmy G, and the front office thinking they have a viable several year solution

 

Or

 

2) Pass on Jimmy G, leaving Taylor as the default starter, maybe picking up a better option in FA, but KNOWING we don't have our QB solution and actively trying to fix it...

 

Choice #2 all day

 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I don't WANT Heinicke to be the starter, but given the choice between:

 

1) Give up draft pick(s) for Jimmy G, and the front office thinking they have a viable several year solution

 

Or

 

2) Pass on Jimmy G, leaving Taylor as the default starter, maybe picking up a better option in FA, but KNOWING we don't have our QB solution and actively trying to fix it...

 

Choice #2 all day

 

 

If the FO think Jimmy G is the franchise guy we have a front office problem.

 

Acquiring Jimmy G does not mean he is the franchise guy. But the cost has to be right.

 

I think where a lot of people are making a mistake here is saying they'd prefer Heinicke over Jimmy G. Most posters here don't believe Heinicke should be the QB1 for any reason whatsoever. He will effect free agency, overall team morale, etc.

 

If you don't want Jimmy G (truth be told it seems like most of us don't WANT him, but believe he is the floor of what we can acquire) that's fine. But the second people say they'd prefer Heinicke over him it breaks down the conversation. 

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I don't WANT Heinicke to be the starter, but given the choice between:

 

1) Give up draft pick(s) for Jimmy G, and the front office thinking they have a viable several year solution

 

Or

 

2) Pass on Jimmy G, leaving Taylor as the default starter, maybe picking up a better option in FA, but KNOWING we don't have our QB solution and actively trying to fix it...

 

Choice #2 all day

 

 

This is a false choice though, there are definitely more options then those two.  And choice #2 just absolutely cannot be allowed to happen, it's year 3 coming up, they need a solution now. 

 

I can accept wanting to give Haskins a chance and live with reality that injuries like Ftiz do happen in this league.  But there's jus no way they can afford to talk about upgrading the QB position all year and leaving door open for Taylor to be the starter.  

 

Either a veteran or a rookie, they absolutely have to beat Taylor for the #1 job, or this off-season is coming up is a giant collasal failure.  There's no other way around it.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Renegade7

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If the FO think Jimmy G is the franchise guy we have a front office problem.

 

Acquiring Jimmy G does not mean he is the franchise guy. But the cost has to be right.

Agree on the first part, that would be a problem.

 

Disagree on the second part, I think any team that were to acquire him would do so on the premise they felt he was a franchise QB. Ultimately I think the cost will reflect that in terms of picks and contract.

 

No one is trading for him and then drafting a QB...in my opinion anyway.

[DiscoBob]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I can accept wanting to give Haskins a chance and live with reality that injuries like Ftiz do happen in this league.  

 

 

This gets a Darth Vader

 

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

😜

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agree on the first part, that would be a problem.

 

Disagree on the second part, I think any team that were to acquire him would do so on the premise they felt he was a franchise QB. Ultimately I think the cost will reflect that in terms of picks and contract.

 

No one is trading for him and then drafting a QB...in my opinion anyway.

 

Okay... Then you don't acquire Jimmy G.

 

If we get him as our significant fallback option, we're not paying a high pick for him. 

 

And in that situation we'd draft a QB this year or next.

[DiscoBob]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If the FO think Jimmy G is the franchise guy we have a front office problem.

 

 

I agree, but I don't trust the WFT to agree.  Someone is going to over pay draft picks for Jimmy - please don't let it be us!

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I agree, but I don't trust the WFT to agree.  Someone is going to over pay draft picks for Jimmy - please don't let it be us!

 

Okay... but if we don't trust the FO (which why should we?) our problem goes well beyond everything else. As in no matter what we do it's not going to matter.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Okay... but if we don't trust the FO (which why should we?) our problem goes well beyond everything else. As in no matter what we do it's not going to matter.

This QB search is going to be the make or break point. Rivera dodged/pushed back the issue last year and has now made all the noises about this being the time. A whole boat load of credibility is riding on the outcome of this.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

This QB search is going to be the make or break point. Rivera dodged/pushed back the issue last year and has now made all the noises about this being the time. A whole boat load of credibility is riding on the outcome of this.

Yup.

 

But that doesn't mean we have success.

 

And we can't go into the season with Heinicke as the starter. So we will acquire someone, somehow. So it becomes less about being the best outcome in those circumstances vs. what is available to us.

 

1. Rodgers - Likely not going to be available to us, but he is my top choice.

2. Wilson - Possibly available to us, there will be competition.

3. Carr - I'm not sure he's going to be available at all.

4. Fields - I doubt he's available. Would pay a first.

5. Rookie (Howell, Corral, Willis preferably)

8. Jimmy G

 

After are ultimate bridge guys that are in FA (Winston, Bridgewater, Mariota, Trubisky) but they aren't starters. You HAVE to draft a QB with them.

 

Jimmy G is ALMOST on the bridge level with those four. But he is just above. You don't HAVE to draft a QB with him but.... you kinda have to draft a QB with him.

 

Notice that Heinicke is no where on my list.

 

I'm fine with him being on the team and competing for the starting spot. Who knows. Maybe a miracle happens and he develops a rifle. That's really not likely, in fact I'm not sure I've ever seen someone develop arm strength like that at all, let alone in such a short period. But if he were to go into camp and absolutely sling the ball around and win the job? I'm good with it. But he CANNOT be seen as the QB1. He CAN'T be.

Edited January 26, 2022 by KDawg

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

This gets a Darth Vader

 

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

😜

 

 

Ikr? I respect so much, because the first thing he did was look at Ramsey and say "hell to the nah" even though he was a recent first round pick. What was there like a two year gap between him being drafted and Gibbs return? A lot of front offices don't like to do that kinda investment being replaced that quickly, I wish Rivera did the same to Haskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

As far as Jimmy G versus Heinicke

 

Adjusted completion %, PFF's attempt to measure accuracy.  Jimmy G among starters ranked third, only below Burrow and Mahomes.

 

Heinicke ranked 38th overall

 

YPA:  Jimmy G ranked 2nd among starters only behind Burrow.

 

Heinicke ranked 35th overall

 

He's 10 spots ahead of Heinicke in QBR, 12 spots ahead of Heinicke in Qb rating.

 

I am far from in love with Jimmy G but he's certainly a distinct improvement.

 

I think the Alex Smith analogy is on point.  They are different though in some ways.  Jimmy G isn't a rocketship as a passer ala Alex.  Jimmy doesn't take a ton of chances but took more from what I can tell over Alex.  They are both high intangible, leader types, loved by their teammates.  Jimmy G comes off cool-laid back in interviews like Alex but is much more vocal and emotional from what I can tell on the field.

 

I don't love the idea of getting him.  It has to be without a first rounder in play and without a big contract.  The big contract and committment they gave Alex was killer on our salary cap and represented another among many dumb decisions by Bruce Allen.

 

I hated the Alex Smith trade at the time because I felt this was a rebuilding roster.  I wouldn't hate it with this roster but its far from my perferred want. 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Skinsinparadise