The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That tweet report is trash. There is no way the Raiders move all the way up to 3 for just a 1st and a 2nd. Its just another random garbage twitter account.

 

Pats aren't trading down unless its for an absolute motherlode haul and the Raiders aren't gonna move up to 3 this early when it doesn't even guarantee they'd get Daniels.

 

You're probably right and you've been banging on this point against me for weeks now. But the path to us trading down at all, is if there's actual smoke to this Daniels thing and we can still get Maye. To get to #2, the Raiders have to get to #3 first. They can get to #3 now, knowing that they'll at least get one of Maye or McCarthy - with an opening to get #2 and Daniels. And my expectation is we wouldn't trade off #2 until we know for certain Chicago is taking Caleb. As soon as that news drops or is confirmed, I would think we'd be open to trading from #2 to #3 any time between now and tomorrow night. 

 

I would also think the Raiders would NOT trade to #3 if they didn't think there was a good chance of getting to #2. And to understand that, I'm sure they've had conversations with GMAP about it, essentially trying to figure out if the pick is available and also what it would take to get it.

 

I'm sure they would try to get to #2 directly from #13, but we likely said NO, we are not going down to #13, and maybe we said --- if you can get to #3 we can talk. 

Edited April 24 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Blanka]

No problem having preferences on where to go and he’s not the first to have that.

 

Still getting these reports when the draft is tomorrow is not a good look. 

These stories during pro days and combine would get a who cares from me as well. One sleep away from the draft is…weird. Would be burying your head in the sand to just wave it away as nothing at all. 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

You're probably right and you've been banging on this point against me for weeks now. But the path to us trading down at all, is if there's actual smoke to this Daniels thing and we can still get Maye. To get to #2, the Raiders have to get to #3 first. They can get to #3 now, knowing that they'll at least get one of Maye or McCarthy - with an opening to get #2 and Daniels. And my expectation is we wouldn't trade off #2 until we know for certain Chicago is taking Caleb. As soon as that news drops or is confirmed, I would think we'd be open to trading from #2 to #3 any time between now and tomorrow night. 

1. Peters has already said they are happy at 2 and don't see a situation where they trade down.

 

2. If the Raiders move up to 3 they'll have to give up almost every decent asset they have. What will they have to give to move up to 2? They only make that trade if they know for sure Daniels will be there at 3, which they won't until actual draft day itself. There is no incentive for them to make that kind of trade this early.

 

We need to stop coming up with these convuluted trade scenarios. We're sticking at 2 and we're likely taking Daniels.

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

1. Peters has already said they are happy at 2 and don't see a situation where they trade down.

 

2. If the Raiders move up to 3 they'll have to give up almost every decent asset they have. What will they have to give to move up to 2? They only make that trade if they know for sure Daniels will be there at 3, which they won't until actual draft day itself. There is no incentive for them to make that kind of trade this early.

 

We need to stop coming up with these convuluted trade scenarios. We're sticking at 2 and we're likely taking Daniels.

 

Yeah this is what kinda makes me gloss over any trade-up situations for LV. They can't empty their pockets to get to 3 and then afford twice that to get to 2.

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

For those of us who play Fantasy Football, there's a decent chance that Daniels will be the number one rookie QB taken this season. 

 

redraft yes, dynasty, no. Williams is still going neck and neck with MHJR in 2QB/Superflex, then some back and forth between Daniels and Maye, Daniels is always the 2nd QB in redraft, and generally 2nd in dynasty simply for the dual threat piece. Maye's volatility based on landing spot is really interesting, the Giants AND the Patriots are god awful landing spots, the Vikes would be ideal and possibly spring him ahead of Daniels. Interesting to think about. 

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Yeah this is what kinda makes me gloss over any trade-up situations for LV. They can't empty their pockets to get to 3 and then afford twice that to get to 2.

Thing is if we know they are taking Daniels. And we want Maye or McCarthy you can work out a trade to move down one spot. Players or picks. Peters did not say a trade down was impossible. He said he didnt currently see a scenario where that would happen. Moving down one spot for the guy you want, even if the compensation is minimal, is the right move. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think so

 

oBjEcTiOn!!!

 

 

Life is short, there's only one day left, suprise me...

[Dah-Dee]

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Shame, I’ve got a great idea.

 

Spill it.

[Dah-Dee]

Pretty cool:

 

 

 

FYI:

 

 

Edited April 24 by Dah-Dee

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Anyone who uses the word "vituperative" in a post earns my respect. 😎

 

Yeah while I am a Maye person like you.  I am with you, @KDawg among some others here concerns about Daniels durability and some other things -- but do see a flip side to Daniels where he can be a star. 

 

The trashing of him as a player seems way over the top by some IMHO.  And look even the trashing to me is OK with the disclaimer that they acknowledge like you do that plenty disagree with them.

 

I used it as an example for myself as to Troy Franklin.   Most scouts (based on leaks) and NFL pundits disagree with me about him.  They are much higher on him than I am.   Does that mean the rest of these guys are idiots and only I can see the forrest for the trees about him?  Maybe?  But maybe I don't.  It's at least in my mind that maybe I am wrong -- am not ignoring information that runs counter to my thoughts. Everything is in play. I could be royally right.  I could be royally wrong.

Lol, Franklin is an interesting analogy. Nobody agrees on the guy and the combine data is utterly bizarre and confounding. In dynasty I'm simply viewing him as a guy worth taking if he falls but I'm not targeting him. I'd like to get a few shares simply for diversification, but admittedly I hate a lot of the tier 2/3 guys like your Leggette, and Adonai where the profile is red flagpalooza, same with Franklin, but if any of the 3 really fall, I'll pick up some on discount. 

 

You know I disagree about the idiot thing simply because I've seen it far too much, hell in our own house repeatedly. There are definitely idiots in this league. 

[Idaho fan]

4 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

But but but that doesn't get clicks... 

 

Let's keep speculating that Daniels doesn't want to play in DC.  Its more fun.

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd rather he focus on being the best QB ever. Why add the running caveat?

 

This coupled with his goal of winning the Heisman instead of winning a natty is just...concerning.

 

He's everything I thought Williams would be. Not a bad kid but just...something is off character wise.

 

God I really really hope we don't draft him.

Are we drafting a RB? 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

None of those “leaks” are from the team. Theyre people on the outside speculating.

One of the weirdest thing Solak mentioned on the simmons podcast today. While Daniels odds have went nuts (he's now close to 98% on the odds calc), Vegas has not dropped Maye comensurately at all. He's at +450 this morning at William Hill, implied odds of 18%. 

 

Doesn't make sense unless Vegas is very distrustful of the hype and wants to hedge heavily against this being b.s. 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Believe it or not Daniels has this exact same issue. He airmailed plenty of balls when pushed off his base in the pocket. He definitely maintains his mechanics better than Maye right now though. The dude lacks no confidence. I will give him that:

 

 

 

And that's why I hope we do not draft him. I want a QB not a RB were not going to win anything that matters with this QB. this type QB.

[veteranskinsfan]

LOVERRO: Washington has had its share of springtime saviors. Remember Heath Shuler?

 

By Thom Loverro - - Tuesday, April 23, 2024

I know this information I’m about to dispense here is well known. Some of you lived through it, others have heard about it.

But, like a good antibiotic, I think it may help reduce the fever that has gripped Washington Commanders fans in the hours leading up to the first round of the NFL draft Thursday night.

With the second pick in the draft, the Commanders have an opportunity to dig out of the quarterback grave they’ve been buried in for more than 30 years. The excitement of that opportunity has reached a frenzied pitch, because there are choices to be made — at least three different young quarterbacks to choose from.

Fans and pundits have lined up behind either Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye or J.J. McCarthy as the path the Commanders should take to dig out of the darkness and lead them to the light.

Some are convinced their guy is the right choice. Others are putting their faith in the new brain trust of general manager Adam Peters, assistant general manager Lance Newmark and coach Dan Quinn, and believe they will make the right decision.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Heath Shuler.

I know, you’re rolling your eyes. You know about Shuler, the Tennessee quarterback Washington selected with the third pick in the 1994 draft who turned out to be the biggest bust in franchise history who lost his starting job to the afterthought quarterback Washington picked in that draft — seventh-rounder Gus Frerotte.

I know, everybody knows the story. But have you relived it recently? There have been so many organizational failures since then, you may have forgotten the lessons that should have been seared into your bones when it comes to drafting quarterbacks.

Nobody knows nothing.

In 1994 the decision makers were Super Bowl general manager Charley Casserly and new coach Norv Turner, just hired after leading the Dallas Cowboys offense to two Super Bowl titles and hailed as the offensive genius of his time (in the resume department, that would seem to be them a step ahead of rookie GM Peters and former Cowboys defensive coordinator Quinn).

In 1994, they had choices too: Would they take Shuler? Or Fresno State quarterback Trent Dilfer (who ended up going to Tampa Bay).

Washington had been leaning toward Dilfer, but when Turner got hired, he had his sights set on Shuler.

Turner said the staff in Dallas believed Shuler could be as good as Troy Aikman, then in the midst of putting together a Hall of Fame career.

“This was one of the big factors in me being as interested in the job as I was,” Turner told reporters after they selected Shuler. “Having the third pick and knowing there was two good young quarterbacks out there, and the chance to start with a young quarterback and watch him develop, that’s the ultimate thing, not only for a new head coach, but for any head coach.”

Choices — what could go wrong, right?

 

Remember, Turner was considered one of the top offensive minds of his time — certainly more respected and celebrated than the Commanders’ current resident offensive genius, Kliff Kingsbury.

And look how wrong Turner was — not just about Shuler, but also Dilfer, who won a Super Bowl with the Baltimore Ravens in 2000 as a caretaker quarterback and spent nearly half of his 13 years in the league as a backup.

These are not the choices Washington fans hope they have with Daniels, Maye and McCarthy, as this quarterback group is rated to be a strong one coming out of college.

But I doubt anyone doing the ratings knows more about offense than Turner did 30 years ago. So calm down, and hope they get it right — because you certainly, and they as well, don’t really know.

In the days before the players union agreed to a rookie wage scale, Shuler held out for two weeks in a contract dispute before finally reporting after signing an eight-year, $19.25 million contract, which was the richest in franchise history and the biggest rookie deal in NFL history. No Top Golf outing for Shuler.

With all the furor over their Top Golf trip, you would have thought Peters took the team’s draft prospects to Larry Flynt’s Hustler Club on their little social experiment.

They may have learned who plays well with others. But they still don’t know who will be an NFL quarterback. Neither did Norv Turner in 1994. And neither do you.

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Daniels can't flat out say he doesn't want to go somewhere because then that just looks bad. That's why "sources" keep bringing up his reluctance for Washington to draft him. I'd much rather prefer the team drafts a QB that wants to come here versus one that will either leave immediately when he's able to or pull a Kirk Cousins and suck this team dry (and then still leave afterward).

 

 

Daniels can't flat out say he doesn't want to go somewhere because then that just looks bad. That's why "sources" keep bringing up his reluctance for Washington to draft him. 

 

So you're completely comfortable believing anonymous sources vs the open voluntary on the record statements of the actual person in question,  as long as those sources confirm your personal narrative, wishes, and  worldview.

 

--Sigh--

 

The draft can't get here soon enough.

 

.

 

 

Edited April 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Remember Heath Shuler?

Schuler was dumb as a box of rocks when it came to reading defenses. Just saying. 

[NewCliche21]

17 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Thing is if we know they are taking Daniels. And we want Maye or McCarthy you can work out a trade to move down one spot. Players or picks. Peters did not say a trade down was impossible. He said he didnt currently see a scenario where that would happen. Moving down one spot for the guy you want, even if the compensation is minimal, is the right move. 

 

I mean I get that, like you can get the player you want or move down a spot and get the player you want and a second. Am I following?

[Warhead36]

Of course if the Pats offer us picks to swap and we can still get the guy we want we'd take it. But again, why would the Pats make that trade? They know there is no way we trade with anyone else anyway, they can happily call our bluff, sit at 3, and take who is left.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Lol, Franklin is an interesting analogy. Nobody agrees on the guy and the combine data is utterly bizarre and confounding. In dynasty I'm simply viewing him as a guy worth taking if he falls but I'm not targeting him. I'd like to get a few shares simply for diversification, but admittedly I hate a lot of the tier 2/3 guys like your Leggette, and Adonai where the profile is red flagpalooza, same with Franklin, but if any of the 3 really fall, I'll pick up some on discount. 

 

You know I disagree about the idiot thing simply because I've seen it far too much, hell in our own house repeatedly. There are definitely idiots in this league. 

 

No doubt there are idiots in the league.  And i think I am fairly liberal on the point by acceding that anyone on this thread might be as good as an evaluator as Adam Peters.  Think of that for a second.  Most of us extolled the Peters hire, thought we got one of the best evaluators in the league.  And yet am willing to accede that any of us might be just as good at him at his job.  I think i am going pretty far to the extreme on the point to entertain the idea.

 

Deep down do i believe it?  Nope.  But I'll ride with it purely in the context of picking a QB is a crapshoot so why can't we do our own crap shoot pick?  Sure.  Look I watched a lot more than my teenager son of both Maye and Daniels.  But if he wants to say he can guess this just as good as me.  OK.  Sure from the same context of its a crap shoot than anyone can guess it right or wrong. 

 

But some posts are so defintiive that their process of the QB is the best or they are borderline absolutely sure that this is the right QB choice and that is the wrong one -- that for me it comes off much more arrogant than hey why isn't our crapshoot guess as good as Peters?  So I push back a little. Not that people can't have definitive takes. 

 

But I am with O'Sullivan who does the QB school who goes the more he does evaluations the more he discovers its harder and more random than he thought previously -- not easier, but harder.  I am in that same camp.  As you know the PFF guys live and die with their numbers but they made the exact same point which is they used to think they've found a formula to increase the odds but their numbers have failed them so they are more in the crap shoot school than they once were.

 

I would say one thing teams have for sure more than we do about these QBs and that is a more detailed breakdown about their personalities and what type of dudes they are. 

Edited April 24 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, rockluc said:

Just take JJ or Maye. This guy clearly would prefer not to be here. How many times did Caleb have to say he was okay going to Chicago. Once by my recollection and it never came up again, seems like JD is clearly trying to put out smoke he’d rather not be here without coming across like a total diva. 

I would take Maye but there's an easy solution to this which is hiring Pierce after he gets fired by Oakland (and he will). Hell, he's a big reason why there draft slotting is so ---. After going 3-5 with McDaniels, they went 6-4 with Pierce. They would be picking inside the top 10 easy if they'd just stuck with the poisonous idiot McDaniels. Alas they fired him and played like a wild card squad the last two months, the polar opposite of what we did (in fairness the schedule opened up a bit, Denver imploded, and the Chargers lost Herbert which made it easier to have a run). All but one of their 4 losses under Pierce were by a TD or a Field Goal. 

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd rather he focus on being the best QB ever. Why add the running caveat?

 

This coupled with his goal of winning the Heisman instead of winning a natty is just...concerning.

 

He's everything I thought Williams would be. Not a bad kid but just...something is off character wise.

 

God I really really hope we don't draft him.

Same, the running thing is pretty stupid. Use it as a tool like Steve Young did post-Bucs, which he won't, but focus on becoming an elite pocket passer and scrambling passer and protecting yourself from looney tunes hits and you can have a long career. 

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Of course if the Pats offer us picks to swap and we can still get the guy we want we'd take it. But again, why would the Pats make that trade? They know there is no way we trade with anyone else anyway, they can happily call our bluff, sit at 3, and take who is left.

Not the Pats. The Raiders. Rumors are they are going all in to trade up to 3 before the draft if possible. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Pretty ironic that two years in a row the patriots may run to the podium to take the guy we should have.

and nothing like the people of Boston to remind you of it ceaselessly.