The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

More like this

 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

35 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

Maye declined Michigan since he wasn't interested in backup duty. 😎

No.  I have an exclusive recording of Jim Harbaugh’s recruiting conversation with Maye:

 

JH: Hi Drake.  You should come to Michigan.  We’re going to win the national Championship. 
 

DM: Ok, but don’t you run the ball 75% of the time?

 

JH: Yes.  You’ll probably only throw the ball 15-20 times a game.  However, with your talent, every pass could be a TD!  You could have a TD percentage of like 50%!!!

 

DM: so basically my year would be turning around and handing the ball off and throwing on 3rd downs?

 

JH: Man, you’re SO smart.  This is why we want you here at Michigan!

 

DM: That sounds … interesting.  Tell you what.  I’ll think about it.  My people will call your people.  
 

(Hangs up)

DM’s friend who’s hanging around: hey Drake, what was that all about?

 

DM: John Harbaugh just wanted to destroy my draft prospects.  Good thing he has a sucker who’s there who believes in his BS.

[mistertim]

33 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Welllll.... sort of:

 

 

Drake's got the strength and skill, but Jayden is just so ... wiggly.

 

 

Sure, Jayden can dance and wiggle around...but all it takes is one hit...

 

[DogofWar1]

Drake's family seems to have deep roots at UNC.  His dad played there.  They're kinda like a UNC royal family.

 

So it'd be like if a Prince of France just bailed and went to fight for Spain.  Kinda taboo.

[Dah-Dee]

32 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

More like this

 

 

So what I hear you saying is, Jayden is an immortal who will get back up no matter how many times the big NFL meanies slam him to the ground - you think that JD5 is... a football god! 😵

 

Whew, I feel so much better about these Daniels rumors now, look forward to watching him run the ball 20 times a game for the Commanders next year! 😋

Edited April 11 by Dah-Dee

[mistertim]

40 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

Says volumes about his character and integrity that he stayed true to his word to Mack Brown, his teammates, and the University of North Carolina.

 

Does anyone know if Maye's family is independently wealthy?

 

Because  at 20 years old I honestly don't know that I would have possessed the moral fiber to turn down that much money, when I was only a single unlucky tackle away from being, "that guy that used to play football".

 

 

Well, he has still made money from NIL. He has other deals, totaling over $1 million IIRC (but don't quote me on that number), so he's doing ok.

 

He's making money, but the big question is whether the lure of way more money would be enough to entice him to transfer. It wasn't, and that is indeed a testament to his character. Also the fact that he apparently refused to take NIL deals unless his teammates were part of it means a lot as well, IMO.

[Dah-Dee]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well, he has still made money from NIL. He has other deals, totaling over $1 million IIRC (but don't quote me on that number), so he's doing ok.

 

He's making money, but the big question is whether the lure of way more money would be enough to entice him to transfer. It wasn't, and that is indeed a testament to his character. Also the fact that he apparently refused to take NIL deals unless his teammates were part of it means a lot as well, IMO.

 

Yep, he was reported last year to be #5 in NIL $$ among football players - and that was *before* his deal with The Rock.

 

https://tarheelswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/29/drake-maye-among-top-nil-earners-in-college-football/

 

Drake Maye among top NIL earners in college football

https://sports.yahoo.com/drake-maye-signs-nil-deal-151627446.html#:~:text=Tar Heels Wire-,Drake Maye signs NIL deal with,The Rock' Johnson's ZOA Energy&text=North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye,Rock” Johnson's ZOA Energy brand.

 

Drake Maye signs NIL deal with Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson’s ZOA Energy

 

AND:

 

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/drake-maye-north-carolina-tar-heels-football-nil-campaign-mitchell-heating-cooling-chapel-hill/

 

North Carolina's Drake Maye shares wealth with linemen in NIL campaign

Edited April 11 by Dah-Dee

[DogofWar1]

Looking through our draft history on the official website and noticed something...

 

 

Now that's a fun typo...or is it actually on purpose.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

2 hours ago, dunfer said:

a rookie beating out a vet in camp vs throwing him out to the grinder in a game isnt the same. Especially behind a suspect oline. The more time our golden child gets to be coached before throwing him out there, the better. Alot of those HoF guys listed above that sat, wouldnt be listed if they started day one

I’d wager those HoF guys wouldve been just fine whether they sat or not…thats why they’re in the hall of fame. Our #2 pick is not sitting, whether its maye or daniels. Trading howell all but confirmed that and still people are throwing out this old-school mentality as if our situation is remotely similar to the one those teams were in.

I’m sure GMAP is really thinking “gee wiz, I can’t wait to kick things off here on a great note by trotting out marcus mariota to lead this team” he’s a veteran, mentor presence, that’s it. God forbid he ever has to see the field at all besides garbage time of a blow out.

[dunfer]

21 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

I’d wager those HoF guys wouldve been just fine whether they sat or not…thats why they’re in the hall of fame. Our #2 pick is not sitting, whether its maye or daniels. Trading howell all but confirmed that and still people are throwing out this old-school mentality as if our situation is remotely similar to the one those teams were in.

I’m sure GMAP is really thinking “gee wiz, I can’t wait to kick things off here on a great note by trotting out marcus mariota to lead this team” he’s a veteran, mentor presence, that’s it. God forbid he ever has to see the field at all besides garbage time of a blow out.

super bowl lix or bust

Penix needs to be in the Lix superbowl though

Edited April 11 by dunfer

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Williams: probable long term starter

Maye: possible long term starter

Daniels: much less likely

Penix: Worth a shot with that cannon

Nix: No chance but good backups make bank.

McCarthy: Most likely to be coaching high school football in 5 years. Ceiling = Todd Collins.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Williams: probable long term starter

Maye: possible long term starter

Daniels: much less likely

Penix: Worth a shot with that cannon

Nix: No chance but good backups make bank.

McCarthy: Most likely to be coaching high school football in 5 years. Ceiling = Todd Collins.

 

Damn, man. Doing McCarthy dirty there.   

Edited April 11 by mistertim

[SoCalSkins]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Damn, man. Doing McCarthy dirty there.   

Still better than Campbell! Another year in Al Saunders offense under HC Gregg Williams and we could have backed into the playoffs again and avoided the whole maroon and black treachery of the Zorn stint! 😂 

[Bifflog]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Drake Maye signs NIL deal with Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson’s ZOA Energy

 

 

[CapsSkins]

4 hours ago, Hooper said:

Five mil for Maye to transfer doesn't seem crazy at all.

 

I know for a fact Riley Leonard was offered seven figures to transfer from Duke after his sophomore year. Not sure what Notre Dame is paying him one year later, but I bet it's more.

 

To add to this, I know the individual who facilitated the 7-figure NIL deal to get Cameron Ward to forego the draft and transfer to Miami. $5M for Maye not surprising at all.

[illone]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No.  I have an exclusive recording of Jim Harbaugh’s recruiting conversation with Maye:

 

I am afraid you’ve been duped by AI Harbaugh, that recording was deemed deep fake. 
 

actual conversation:

 

JH: Drakey if you come to Michigan you can get a signed McCarthy jersey and be the first one to help carry him off the field after winning the Naty. 
 

DM: will i get playing time?

 

JH: Once JJ and I leave for the NFL, you’ll get a chance to replace the jugs machine.
 

DM: … so like, clipboard duty?

 

JH: We already have a starter, and until you clean up that footwork we’re all set until JJ and I leave for the NFL next year. But our coaching is way better than anything you’ll see at UNC. Think about it…

 

DM: I’ll pass, coach. Mack Brown helped vince young become a mediocre starter in the nfl for a few years, Im excited to remain a tarhell!

 

JH: suit yourself young man 😂

[FootballZombie]

You guys are failing to ask the real questions.

 

Like how the world is gonna react when Caleb steals all the spotlight by showing up to draft night in that dress thingy.

 

You can't compete w/ that. Everybody else is playing for 2nd.

[cakmoney61]

9 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Haha sort of?  I think for me it is just that with everything I have seen from this franchise (and others) as far as trying to find a franchise QB it makes me not even want to consider the idea that we have one here until they hit their third season because I have seen plenty of short-term success in the past that hasn't ended up being anything over the long term.  I think the modern NFL more than any other era is better suited for young QB's to come in and have success early, not necessarily by shouldering the offense themselves, but the rules, the way the game is played, the types of offense, and GM's building rosters around them early in their careers.  I think we are going to see a lot of young QBs have a certain level of success early for  a lot of reasons and they will be crowned by the media and their fanbases, but then their development will stagnate and most will fall back to the pack or worse over course of the following few seasons.  I just hope we pick the right QB. 

The fact of the matter is there may not be a right QB to pick.  As a Washington fan suffering from severe PTSD after watching 30 years of futility, would it surprise anyone if the top six QBs in the draft end up being busts or JAGs?  Odds are one or two could end up as franchise QBs and it could be none of the top three.  Unless one can see into the future, no one truly knows enough to bet all they possess on it.  

 

My confidence in any of the top three being a franchise QB has generally been shattered.  Just roll the dice and let's see what happens.

[mac8887]

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

You guys are failing to ask the real questions.

 

Like how the world is gonna react when Caleb steals all the spotlight by showing up to draft night in that dress thingy.

 

You can't compete w/ that. Everybody else is playing for 2nd.

I’m still hoping we trade up for Caleb. Hopefully he’ll finally get to wear his burgundy and gold dress.

[Skinsinparadise]

There is some wildcard of course about Maye, Daniels, McCarthy.

 

I am on the Maye train.  But I am not on it to the degree where I feel its absurd to the exent where its not even explainable as to why you do not to take him.  i don't go that far.  Schlereth sums up the concerns about Maye well while praising him too so he comes off balanced to me.  I do think Maye can conquer this flaw -- throws in the flat.  But I can't say that of course with 100% assurance. 

 

My one pause about Maye's struggles with throws in the flat as I saw in camp Jay try to work his QB on working on them.  And the dude that really struggled with them was Haskins.  Erratic with lateral throws in the flat.  And even as to the completions the receiver has to pull back to catch them and in turn struggled to catch in stride.  Did that carry to the seasons, heck yeah it did.

 

As for Maye I am assuming he conquers this in part because he can make 2nd and 3rd level plays with some wicked accuracy -- which wasn't something Haskins (RIP) could do.  Haskins was mostly about shallow crossers.   Jay was actually talking about shallow throws in between the numbers as one of the easiest throws for any QB on Keim's podcast the other day.

 

But I am not a QB expert.  So i can't say with 100% assurance that Maye fixes this.  I suspect he does but I don't know.  Daniels IMO has more things to conquer but throws in the flat isn't one of them, he's actually good at that.  What makes me thinking of the point is I keep hearing that Kingsbury likes the quick game in the flat.  If so that would be the one throw that to my watching favors Daniels.

 

As wacky as it sounds watching all those throws in the flat during camp it was more difficult for the QBs to complete than I expected.  I talked about it in a thread at the time.  Kirk was great at it.  Colt was really good at it.  Keenum so so.  Haskins awful at it.

 

The best QB in this class as to making throws in the flat is Bo Nix IMO.  And lol, I wouldn't draft him in the top 10.   It's tough t make a living throwing balls in the flat.  Daniel Jones somewhat tries to.  Alex Smith sort of did.  But I do think its an important ingredient in the mix.  It feels like its not that hard to fix but I don't know.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2024 NFL draft: Latest buzz, questions on all 32 teams' picks

Washington Commanders

Top picks: Nos. 2, 36, 40

 

Do the Commanders have an early lean on which QB they'd want to take at No. 2?

The Commanders have been tight-lipped, so it's hard to say if they have a true lean. But what is clear is that most of the coaches I've spoken with, as well as ex-coaches who still study prospects, say it should be LSU's Jayden Daniels -- and none have said North Carolina's Drake Maye should be picked over him. Perhaps one clue: Coach Dan Quinn said, among other things, he wants someone who can handle when coverages change post-snap, and he said Daniels "processes things quickly." And that's in addition to his ability to make big plays with his legs. -- John Keim

 

What we're hearing about the Commanders' draft: Yeah, it's widely accepted at this point that the Commanders will draft a quarterback at No. 2 -- the question is which one. When I asked a dozen NFL scouts and executives about the selection, I kept hearing that Daniels is the most likely pick. That intel, of course, is from people outside the Commanders' organization, so take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds like many people around the league believe the reigning Heisman Trophy winner will follow Williams off the board. -- Miller

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39901606/2024-nfl-draft-latest-buzz-rumors-news-answering-questions-all-32-teams-picks

[Going Commando]

46 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

The fact of the matter is there may not be a right QB to pick.  As a Washington fan suffering from severe PTSD after watching 30 years of futility, would it surprise anyone if the top six QBs in the draft end up being busts or JAGs?  Odds are one or two could end up as franchise QBs and it could be none of the top three.  Unless one can see into the future, no one truly knows enough to bet all they possess on it.  

 

My confidence in any of the top three being a franchise QB has generally been shattered.  Just roll the dice and let's see what happens.

 

This is a consequence of a loss in perspective.  All prospects carry risk, and their career outcomes will depend on staying healthy and ending up in good situations where their teams do the work of building a proper QB nursery.  But Williams and Maye are two of the best QB prospects that have come out in the last ten years.  They are good bets that any team who needs a QB should be thrilled to have access to.  Both of them are better prospects than Young and Stroud were. Far better than Richardson and anyone from 2022.  Way better than Wilson, Lance, Fields, and Jones were, and better than Tua and Herbert.  They are of the same caliber as prospects that Lawrence and Burrow were.  We are lucky to be drafting second in a two blue chip prospect class, in a year when we are QB shopping for a new regime.  It's an alignment of the stars scenario where genuine long term turnarounds can take place.

 

The problem for me is we might blow it and take a significantly inferior prospect in Daniels instead of Maye.  You'd think that the franchise which already went through the RGIII experience once wouldn't leap to do it again, but I don't have any confidence that we won't.  Making that kind of mistake after being gifted such a golden opportunity with Maye would make it feel like we deserve to stay in the gutter.

[actorguy1]

https://theathletic.com/5375788/2024/04/11/nfl-draft-2024-top-quarterbacks/

 

One general manager’s text summarized his annoyance about pre-draft “noise.”

“Everything now is speculation,” he responded amid a series of exchanges. “The draft is the IPO, and the stock price of the pick will fluctuate with each practice, game and season. Time always tells the tale.”

 

Assessments from outside evaluators and information shared by reporters following the college football season shape the initial draft narratives. Anyone can watch game tapes. However, interviews with players or individuals who help teams fill in bios and backstories are one crucial piece of the prospect puzzle that is inaccessible to the public.

“I judged on film alone,” one former head coach said upon sharing his QB thoughts. “Not knowing the kid makes this tougher.”

As narrative shifts occur, online debates often become inflamed. Talking heads and opinionated fans become swayed or more entrenched. One example is the banter about Michigan quarterback J.J. McCarthy’s apparent rise from a mid-to-late first-round pick to joining the top-five conversation with LSU’s Jayden Daniels and North Carolina’s Drake Maye.

Led by general manager Adam Peters and coach Dan Quinn, the Washington Commanders have remained mum about their plans for the second overall pick. That makes life tricky for the mock draft community, national news breakers, sanity-seeking reporters and, more importantly, teams picking after Washington. The QB-needy New England Patriots have the third selection.

“I don’t think anyone in here really knows exactly what Washington is going to do,” Patriots coach Jerod Mayo said at last month’s league meetings.

Seventeen sources shared their takes on the top passing prospects in this year’s draft. This combined ranking used a 5-3-2-1 scoring system, with first-place votes in parentheses. Our group:

• Two active general managers
• Three personnel executives
• Three scouts
• One assistant/QBs coach
• Three former general managers
• One ex-head coach
• Four former players-turned-analysts, including two ex-quarterbacks

Other sources discussed the prospects but declined a rank order. The first-round answer key will be revealed when the draft commences April 25. The conjecture over which teams fared best will have only just begun.

1. Caleb Williams, USC — 78 points (14 first-place votes)

Outside of Williams going the John Elway or Eli Manning route, the 2022 Heisman Trophy winner is headed to Chicago as the No. 1 selection. No wonder all draft speculation starts with the Commanders at No. 2.

 

Trait comparisons to Kansas City Chiefs three-time Super Bowl champion Patrick Mahomes were sprinkled throughout discussions, though sources shied away from tagging Williams as the next Mahomes. Several sources mentioned Williams’ high floor as the highlight rather than the potential upside. Three panelists preferred Daniels, with one — fearing possible disruption from Williams’ famously involved camp — slotting the USC quarterback third. Otherwise, the panel has high hopes for one of the best QB prospects in years.

Scout 1: I understand the leadership concerns, but Williams has the most talent. He’s easily No. 1.

Former NFL QB and current NBC Sports analyst Chris Simms: (Williams) can throw every ball in the book. … He’s the best scrambler in the draft and the best off-platform. He’s got the best feel in the pocket. And then when there is nothing there, there is nobody better.

2. Jayden Daniels, LSU — 50 (3)

Only Williams and Daniels, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner, received first-place votes. Daniels’ experience (53 starts with Arizona State and LSU), development as a passer (40 touchdown passes in 2023, nine fewer than his previous four seasons combined) and dual-threat playmaking (1,134 rushing yards last season) had several sources speaking in glowing terms.

His thin frame — 6-foot-4, 210 pounds — and penchant for playing in traffic led to wicked collisions and long-term frets with panelists. However, his improvement and apparent fit with offensive coordinator Kliff Kingsbury’s up-tempo offense have made him a mock draft staple at No. 2. Washington will host Daniels for a visit starting Monday, a league source told The Athletic.

Assistant coach: Daniels is so good. … He is so much better than Maye and McCarthy. It’s not even close. Daniels can play NFL football right now.

Scout 2: Jayden probably made more progress than any quarterback coming out in the last five or six years. He can anticipate, make all the throws and is an explosive athlete. (As a scrambler), he’s not Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. His ability to process (pre-snap) has improved as a passer, which is hard to do in one year. We know he started working with (virtual reality) this season. Got those VR reps, and that’s when he took off.

 

Scout 1: High upside but has a ton of room (to grow). It will take a couple of years, and the offense has to be tailored (to him). It’s going to be some wow but some ugly (plays). A lot like Justin Fields.

Former head coach: Jayden is QB2. He can start immediately, but he better learn to protect himself or he’ll be in the cold tub often.

Personnel executive 1: He could end up being the best one. Good athlete and arm talent. I think he sees it and can process. Big drop-off after him and Williams.

3. Drake Maye, North Carolina — 24

If these six passers were ranked on the level of polarization, Maye would be the runaway leader. Following the 2022 season, some circles saw him as Williams’ rival for QB1 draft status due to his prototype 6-foot-4, 223-pound size, deep passing strength, mobility and competitiveness. As a first-time starter, Maye was named ACC Player of the Year.

Following several offseason personnel changes at UNC, including losing offensive coordinator Phil Longo to Wisconsin, Maye’s performance and passing statistics dipped in 2023, especially against higher-end foes. The variance among these sources on Maye ranges from QB2 (Scout 1: “I think he will be the best of the group”) to being outside the top four. The highlight reels are strong, but so is the discussion of regression in decision-making, footwork and fundamentals amid a choppy final college season.

“I know a lot of people look at the ceiling, but you’ve also got to see how low the floor is,” Mayo said last month. “A guy like Drake Maye has a lot of room to grow. He’s a young guy. He hasn’t played football nearly as much (26 starts) as these other guys.”

The panel cited Maye as the quarterback in most need of a redshirt NFL season. That’s logical for a player who turns 22 in August. However, the assessment also shows a lack of clarity about the future.

Current GM: People are going to pick Maye apart. If he ends up being the best of the group, it won’t shock me. He is made of the right stuff.

Simms: If you watch 20 throws, you’ll see good throws. Then … the ball is all over the place. The decision-making can be all over the place, and the pocket presence is all over the place, let alone some mechanical flaws in how he throws the football. It (was) confirmed to me in his pro day, (which) was underwhelming. … He’s got all the size. He’s pretty athletic when he runs. I always hear (Maye is) like Justin Herbert coming out or Josh Allen, and my brain wants to explode.

 

Scout 1: Maye reminds me a lot of Herbert.

Assistant coach: Maye is Herbert light. Take everything Herbert does and make it less. They’ll be compared (because of the prototype size), but there’s no comparison. I like Maye, but when I see the amount of work it will take to have him reach his potential, we’ll be fired first.

Personnel executive 1: He scares the hell out of me. Longer thrower with a big arm but not quick release. Nothing feels like it happens in rhythm, and accuracy is average. Needs a year on the bench.

Former GM: He has accuracy you can’t teach and is only scratching the surface with his upside while he physically matures. Wait for years two and three. If he progresses, he can end up like Troy Aikman.

4. J.J. McCarthy, Michigan — 23 

Let’s start with the elephant in the room.

“I think the J.J. hype is real,” texted another personnel executive, who has McCarthy over Maye in his top four. “He’s extremely talented.”

Two sources ranked McCarthy QB2, and multiple panelists prefer his play-time processing and intangibles over other quarterbacks in this class. McCarthy’s sharp pro day has garnered praise beyond former Michigan coach and new Chargers coach Jim Harbaugh.

Some panelists pushed back on the top-five potential based on limited usage at times despite effectively quarterbacking the Wolverines to a national championship and a 27-1 record over the past two seasons.

“I need to watch McCarthy more,” said one GM, who grades McCarthy outside of Round 1, “but I never saw (the positives) we’re hearing about him now. J.J. never had to carry Michigan and was driving a damn Cadillac.”

 

McCarthy executes plays on time in structure, is willing to take shots over the middle and has needed athleticism. One source compared him to San Francisco 49ers starter Brock Purdy, whose traits meshed perfectly in Kyle Shanahan’s offense.

Assistant coach: (McCarthy’s) technique is jacked up, but when we met him (this draft cycle), he knew he had to work on layering the ball. Maye is more of a sandlot passer. J.J. is probably better at working from the pocket in the long term. I’d probably take him (third).

Scout 1: I don’t love (McCarthy). He’s a winner and has all the intangibles, but I wouldn’t say I like his arm and think the athlete is a little overrated. He reminds me of Daniel Jones.

Scout 2: These top four quarterbacks are all better than Zach Wilson (2021 No. 2 pick) and Trey Lance (2021 No. 3 pick) coming out. Daniels, Maye and McCarthy could go in any order, depending on your preferred flavor.

[Going Commando]

@Skinsinparadise you are right that there is a very real possibility we pick Jayden over Maye.  You've made that point clear.  What you haven't made, and will never make, is a convincing case that it isn't a completely obvious and damning mistake.

 

There is no equivocation on this, it's a huge mistake.  It's taking RGIII over Andrew Luck, or Justin Fields over Trevor Lawrence.  I would immediately lose belief in this regime and this rebuild if they make this mistake, and have to spend my time waiting for it to fail and this group to be fired before we can try again.  And under no circumstances would I be willing to give Adam Peters another crack at QB.  You **** up like this and you are done.

Edited April 11 by Going Commando