The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

@SWFLSkinsI could be misremembering but this is you, right? You’re still pulling for EB to get the job?

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've heard enough, multiple times from Keim now that Bieiniemy and his play calling isn't beloved in that locker room from certain players.

 

It's telling to me that Keim's take on the major complaint behind the scenes from the players is that Bieniemy has too much power and would like for Rivera to take some of that power back.

 

I am not worried about him at this point about Bieiniemy being the HC.      The rumbilings which we hear on and off feels like a WP expose at the end of the season.

 

Imagine being screamed at all training camp, and every practice, and then thinking the coach doing the screaming is hindering the team's ability to win.  I can't believe EB is very popular in the locker room.  

[lovemaskins]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I get that sense too. You dont run a TE heavy offense with our trio of WRs. 
 

Honestly would rather have Turner at this point. He actually could scheme WRs open. Howell might have actually thrived in that system as crazy as it sounds.

Dude, Scott Turner was terrible, period.  We had the same sieve of an offensive line last year and Turner was cooking up 25 yard comeback routes and deep posts and double moves, and rightly got his arse fired. As bad a EB is, and he’s bad, he’s light years better than Scott Turner, and to think we chose him over now Vikings head coach Kevin McConnell is coaching malpractice…

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

There were massive red flags with Bieniemy from day 1.  16 interviews by 15 teams and none of them took a chance on him?  The biggest open secret in the NFL that he basically had nothing to do with the success in KC and it was Reid calling the plays and scheming the games?  The only team to give him a lateral job offer (with total autonomy on the offense) was the one owned by Daniel Snyder?  This was a disaster waiting to happen once he was hired.  I'm glad Keim finally said something.  This has been rumbling for the last few weeks.  Remember when everyone thought it was so cool that he was "tough" during training camp?  That intensity **** wears thin when you are incompetent at your job.  You don't hear things like this about Del Rio or Ron.  

 

 

I was good with the hiring because of how bad things were with Scott Turner but mainly because I wanted Howell to switch to a WCO versus the old school Air Coryell.   But I was hard core pushing back on those here who wanted him already as HC.  There were enough red flags on that to at least pause and let things play out some. 

 

As the season progressed, I was out pretty fast on him as a HC prospect.  I was up and down about him as a playcaller but I've been out on him for a few weeks on that front, too.

 

Part of my concern about firing Ron is that I didn't want to give Bieniemy any fighting chance to be a HC.

 

Keim after the first Giants game suggested Terry's criticism of the lack of playcalling adjustments was a polite take from Terry but the feeling was deeper and shared by other players in that locker room.  Leno has taken some indirect shots.  And Leno telling Keim who would take over, implying that dude isn't on the staff, if they fired Rivera is telling.  But to me with Keim saying on a macro basis the players do not want Bieiniemy as an interm coach and players believe Bieniemy has too much power -- that's some strong sentiment against him.

 

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Imagine being screamed at all training camp, and every practice, and then thinking the coach doing the screaming is hindering the team's ability to win.  I can't believe EB is very popular in the locker room.  

 

Listening to some takes about this, feels deeper than the screaming.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

I’m really curious what kind of power EB has now. 
 

Either way saying they want Ron back tells me more about the players than it does EB, honestly. And I’m out on EB at this point. But come on lol

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

I’m really curious what kind of power EB has now. 
 

Either way saying they want Ron back tells me more about the players than it does EB, honestly. And I’m out on EB at this point. But come on lol

 

With Ron the vibe I get from Keim and others is its not that they think he's the be all and end all coach -- but its that they like him a lot as a dude.   It's not like with for example the Raiders and Daniels where the players couldn't stand Daniels.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[seamonster]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

Do you see flaws with Trevor Lawrence?

 

Every QB in the League has flaws. They always will. Sam is no different. Having said that, the flaw I’d like to see most corrected is the offensive line and play calling.

 

If Sam sinks then it’s on him. But I don’t know who would succeed behind this mess of an OL/situational playcalls. 

 

Two things can be true...You can have a terrible offensive line and a slow witted QB that stumbles into stupid decisions. That explains the nine thousand sacks and the 10 point offense.  He's not a smart player. How many times is he going to throw the ball away when there's an obvious defensive offsides flag (I've seen him do this twice)? How many times do we have to watch him keep the ball on a draw play and then lose six yards? Will he ever make a pre-snap read? Ever? He's got arm talent but so does Carson Wentz...I see nothing but more darkness and struggles with this franchise if they try and hitch their futures to this 5th round talent. He's gone backwards and floundered when he's not playing garbage defenses (Eagles, Patriots).  He needs to compete next year against a journeyman or a draft pick. And if they (the NEW GM) has their guy fall to them in the first than they should pull the trigger instead of doing what idiot-boy Riveria did and start Dwayne Haskins (because he's the "the guy"). 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With Ron the vibe I get from Keim and others is its not that they think he's the be all and end all coach -- but its that they like him a lot as a dude.   It's not like with for example the Raiders and Daniels where the players couldn't stand Daniels.

Honestly to me it sounds like they don’t take coaching. It’s not unreasonable to think they are used to Ron’s soft touch AND Bienemy is a rude asshole that can’t call plays. 
 

Ron is a players coach and EB is whatever the extreme opposite of that is and bad at his job. It’s no wonder they hate him. But wanting the other guy back at the tail end of a 4-17 season tells me they want to quit and the asshole won’t let them. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, seamonster said:

 

Two things can be true...You can have a terrible offensive line and a slow witted QB that stumbles into stupid decisions. That explains the nine thousand sacks and the 10 point offense.  He's not a smart player. How many times is he going to throw the ball away when there's an obvious defensive offsides flag (I've seen him do this twice)? How many times do we have to watch him keep the ball on a draw play and then lose six yards? Will he ever make a pre-snap read? Ever? He's got arm talent but so does Carson Wentz...I see nothing but more darkness and struggles with this franchise if they try and hitch their futures to this 5th round talent. He's gone backwards and floundered when he's not playing garbage defenses (Eagles, Patriots).  He needs to compete next year against a journeyman or a draft pick. And if they (the NEW GM) has their guy fall to them in the first than they should pull the trigger instead of doing what idiot-boy Riveria did and start Dwayne Haskins (because he's the "the guy"). 

You mean the play where he got sacked on the draw? He kept it because he saw Robinson was DOA. I also haven’t seen him throw a ball away on an offsides. He throws it deep usually to a receiver but they are typically covered. 
 

He definitely makes bad decisions at times. He’s a gunslinger and with that comes some really dumb passes. Part of the soup. 
 

I want to be clear here… I’m not sure if Howell is the long term dude. But if we don’t fix the OL these rookies in the ‘24 class are going to get absolutely lambasted. There aren’t free agent linemen to snag that would be major upgrades outside of a couple… if we somehow land them (Onwenu, for instance) then I am more open to options in the first if they fall. 
 

I’d also be more open to it in a trade back scenario where we net an extra first to shore up the OL and get the QB they love. 
 

But if we can’t improve the OL in the off-season in a meaningful way it’s a waste of resources to go QB. They won’t survive and their growth stunted. Howell can play well enough to play QB in the transition year. If he’s not the guy go after the QB in ‘25 with a shored up front and a staff in place for a full season. 
 

I’m certainly not against drafting a QB in the mid rounds regardless. Need a backup anyways as Brissett probably doesn’t return. Let him compete.
 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by KDawg

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Howell will get blamed for this.  He didn't play great, but he is so far from the biggest problem on this team.  

This team needs to be rebuilt starting with the oline and linebackers, or else it's the same **** we've seen the last 20 years.  

 

It's time to take the best tackle in the draft.  

I posted at the beginning of the month to prepare for a thorough --- kicking in this game, not because the Cowboys are necessarily guaranteed to kill us, they aren't, but because a rookie QB, our defense playing out the string, a crap OL, and not great playmakers ON SHORT REST against the cowboys was basically going to likely be an abomination. It was. He was competitive despite getting annihilated and getting a helmet to helmet (I was shocked that noone seemed to comment on it in the game thread until someone tweeted it, it was blantantly obvious and the lack of a call was stunning, I was shocked he didnt get a concussion from it) etc. None of that surprises me. But taken in raw counting stats, he was largely fine until the game got completely out of hand. He remains an interesting prospect, easily the best QB out of the crap '22 class, and a legit starting option, it's just too bad that after wasting 4 offseasons of draft capital and FA coin on moronic attempts to build a great defense, the defense is actually worse, and the offense is no better. Great job of giving Sam a chance, idiots. The playmakers on offense are a 3rd round miracle hit at WR, a 1st round mega reach at WR, a speculative, blind dart throw quality TE, and a 3rd round tough JAG rb. That's it. The OL is ----, and has no serious investments at any slot other than the injured rookie Center and Cosmi, and the D, which got the vast bulk of the investments is straight trash. 

 

Feel real bad for Sam, just hoping the battering that will continue doesn't permanently damage his game. Regardless, I remain someone very interested in QB in round 1 next year but it depends upon trade up cost and if there are any guys worth taking at slot (likely to be 5th-10th at this point). 

[DJHJR86]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim after the first Giants game suggested Terry's criticism of the lack of playcalling adjustments was a polite take from Terry but the feeling was deeper and shared by other players in that locker room.  Leno has taken some indirect shots.  And Leno telling Keim who would take over, implying that dude isn't on the staff, if they fired Rivera is telling.  But to me with Keim saying on a macro basis the players do not want Bieiniemy as an interm coach and players believe Bieniemy has too much power -- that's some strong sentiment against him.

 

I remember Robinson also taking a shot at the play calling after one of the early losses.  Am I misremembering this, but wasn't there some reports that came out about players being okay with the "intensity" of being yelled at or belittled at the time (training camp or offseason) but that it would wear thin if the offense sputtered?  

[RWJ]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

I posted at the beginning of the month to prepare for a thorough --- kicking in this game, not because the Cowboys are necessarily guaranteed to kill us, they aren't, but because a rookie QB, our defense playing out the string, a crap OL, and not great playmakers ON SHORT REST against the cowboys was basically going to likely be an abomination. It was. He was competitive despite getting annihilated and getting a helmet to helmet (I was shocked that noone seemed to comment on it in the game thread until someone tweeted it, it was blantantly obvious and the lack of a call was stunning, I was shocked he didnt get a concussion from it) etc. None of that surprises me. But taken in raw counting stats, he was largely fine until the game got completely out of hand. He remains an interesting prospect, easily the best QB out of the crap '22 class, and a legit starting option, it's just too bad that after wasting 4 offseasons of draft capital and FA coin on moronic attempts to build a great defense, the defense is actually worse, and the offense is no better. Great job of giving Sam a chance, idiots. The playmakers on offense are a 3rd round miracle hit at WR, a 1st round mega reach at WR, a speculative, blind dart throw quality TE, and a 3rd round tough JAG rb. That's it. The OL is ----, and has no serious investments at any slot other than the injured rookie Center and Cosmi, and the D, which got the vast bulk of the investments is straight trash. 

 

Feel real bad for Sam, just hoping the battering that will continue doesn't permanently damage his game. Regardless, I remain someone very interested in QB in round 1 next year but it depends upon trade up cost and if there are any guys worth taking at slot (likely to be 5th-10th at this point). 

Sam is not going to get blamed.  Even Irving Johnson knows football along with others in ownership.  Howell will be given the benefit of doubt and another year with this team.  I do expect us to draft a QB in the upcoming draft though but Sam is the starter.  He has done well with the crap Oline he's had to deal with.  

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Bienemy is a coach who coaches a system and makes his players fit to it… rather than taking his system and wrinkling it so IT fits the players. That is the mark of a good coach. Someone who can run what they are comfortable with and know while adjusting it for the personnel you have.

 

In KC he had no issues designing around his players and taking feedback from them on what they liked running.  The players themselves designed plays and they called them.

 

Our players just aren't that good and our culture here sucks.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I’m certainly not against drafting a QB in the mid rounds regardless. Need a backup anyways as Brissett probably doesn’t return. 
 

 

I agree with this. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by RWJ

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Howell will get blamed for this.  He didn't play great, but he is so far from the biggest problem on this team.  

This team needs to be rebuilt starting with the oline and linebackers, or else it's the same **** we've seen the last 20 years.  

 

It's time to take the best tackle in the draft.  

You don't rebuild with LB's, they're the cheapest asset to acquire in FA, and the draft. I have no problems on speculating on a LB in round 2, but otherwise, don't touch it on day 1. Feel free to use FA money on it, I wouldn't hate a LB on day 2 if there's a good one that's fallen like when we moronically reached for Jamin a full round for no reason, and JOK lasted to basically our 2nd rounder, got no problem with that, but no thank you in round 1. I'd target LT, RT, LG, WR, QB, Secondary, and sure a LB or two, and a TE. 

[DJHJR86]

32 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

As bad a EB is, and he’s bad, he’s light years better than Scott Turner

 

Receivers almost always were open in 2021 and 2022.  This year?  Nope.  Last year through 12 games the offense averaged 19.4 points per game.  This year it's 20.5.  Yay!

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

In KC he had no issues designing around his players and taking feedback from them on what they liked running.  The players themselves designed plays and they called them.

 

Our players just aren't that good and our culture here sucks.

That was Reid’s offense. Not EB’s. 

Lesean Mccoy was right. EB stinks.

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

In KC he had no issues designing around his players and taking feedback from them on what they liked running.  The players themselves designed plays and they called them.

 

Our players just aren't that good and our culture here sucks.

Won’t catch me disagreeing on your player assessment. But I disagree with you on Bienemy. In KC he had Andy Reid (and watch, he’s going to wind up back there with him and successful)

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

That was Reid’s offense. Not EB’s. 

Lesean Mccoy was right. EB stinks.

McCoy said that EB had no idea how the passing game works and that couldn’t have been MORE wrong lol. 
 

Let’s not use that loser to try and validate our opinions. We don’t see it. We can see EB is bad at play calling but that doesn’t make every negative thing ever said about him 100% correct. 

[Warhead36]

I dont think EB will coach in the NFL again. Hes been exposed now. He’ll probably get a college OC job. 

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont think EB will coach in the NFL again. Hes been exposed now. He’ll probably get a college OC job. 

 

He was a disaster when he coached at Colorado.  Also, all of those rape allegations against players during his tenure as well.  

[skinsmania123]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I dont think EB will coach in the NFL again. Hes been exposed now. He’ll probably get a college OC job. 

I agree he will not get another job as an OC in the NFL.  But I think it is quite possible he gets a college HC gig. I think his personality is better geared towards the college football environment. 

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

He was a disaster when he coached at Colorado.  Also, all of those rape allegations against players during his tenure as well.  

 I could see a college team hiring him as a HC regardless.  Someone will roll the dice on him again.

[lovemaskins]

22 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Receivers almost always were open in 2021 and 2022.  This year?  Nope.  Last year through 12 games the offense averaged 19.4 points per game.  This year it's 20.5.  Yay!

Our receivers are open this year too, but our offensive line is worse than last year so there’s no time for a creative play to develop.  We’ve seen plenty of analysis around our offensive scheme where guys are running open.

 

However, receivers can’t expect to get open in 2 seconds every damn play, against tight man coverage because defensive coordinators now know your line can’t hold up, you struggle running between the tackles, and EB has determined he WILL NOT run the ball no matter how smart it is.  

Edited November 24, 2023 by lovemaskins

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

26 minutes ago, Llevron said:

McCoy said that EB had no idea how the passing game works and that couldn’t have been MORE wrong lol. 
 

Let’s not use that loser to try and validate our opinions. We don’t see it. We can see EB is bad at play calling but that doesn’t make every negative thing ever said about him 100% correct. 

Calling a **** ton of pass plays doesn’t really mean he’s got any type of feel for designing or calling it effectively.  I was one of those that didn’t buy what McCoy was selling because he has the propensity to be extra for the sake of trying to get clicks and credibility.  But he actually hit the nail on the head from what we’ve seen.

Edited November 24, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[DJHJR86]

Just listened to Keim's podcast.  @Skinsinparadise summed it up nicely.  The people he spoke to in the locker room do not want Bieniemy as the interim head coach.  Players are actually telling Keim that they think Bieniemy has too much power and that Ron needs to get some back.  Keim isn't one to b.s. and isn't a tabloid type of reporter.  I trust his reporting and he was very matter of fact about Bieniemy.  That should put the final nail in the "give EB the reins" argument.