The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[NickyJ]

2 hours ago, samy316 said:

 

It's definitely an interesting position they've put themselves in.  Ron is in a must-win season, and he's going with a rookie QB.  That usually doesn't happen, since you want a surefire QB to lead your team if you're a coach whose on the hot seat like Ron is.  It's kind of screwed up, because like you said, if we get off to another slow start under Ron, he's going to be feeling more pressure than ever to get it turned around in order to save his job.  I think that anything less than 10 wins and/or a playoff berth seals Ron's fate as an HC with this team.  He HAS to start off strong, and the team has to be in the playoff hunt the entire season.  If we get off to another 2-4 start, it's over for Ron.  What I fear, is that Ron might go back to that conservative approach of running the ball and time control, if Howell struggles.  I wonder how Ron's going to navigate Sam's peaks and valleys as a QB early on.

Ideally, Ron won't have much influence on the quarterbacks going forward beyond who starts and who doesn't. After all the hoopla about Bieniemy joining the team and getting pumped up as the assistant head coach, I think the style of offense will be entirely in EB's hands. The Norvlet never had as much clout as EB has now. This is EB's first real audition at being his own man, so he has incentive to not let Ron hold him back.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, Conn said:

For a comparison that’s sure to piss some people off, I’m seeing more throws like this from Daniel Jones out of Giants camp, and talk of his continued growth into a franchise passer. It could just be the limited types of videos we’re getting out of camp but my eyes are peeled for signs of whether Howell is potentially the guy or not. 

 

I think the Giants brass has done more to help Daniel Jones.  More investment in the O line granted its still not hot but that unit has more upside and at least they run block well.

 

Hyatt, Paris Campbell, Waller all having big camps judging by reporters.  Their weakness was pass catching last year and they aggressively attacked that problem.

 

I am not so sure most of the national pundits are wrong that they are a better team than this one. I think its close though.  Still I do think the Giants are a bit overrated but will see.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Mr. Sinister]

😬

[MartinC]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think the Giants brass has done more to help Daniel Jones.  More investment in the O line granted its still not hot but that unit has more upside and at least they run block well.

 

Hyatt, Paris Campbell, Waller all having big camps judging by reporters.  Their weakness was pass catching last year and they aggressively attacked that problem.

 

I am not so sure most of the national pundits are wrong that they are a better team than this one. I think its close though.  Still I do think the Giants are a bit overrated but will see.

 

 

 

The starters hardly play in preseason. I doubt they get more than a total of 3 quarters across all preseason games. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The starters hardly play in preseason. I doubt they get more than a total of 3 quarters across all preseason games. 

 

I am assuming his job is safe.  But on the off chance he's on notice in some way...

 

Maybe its just the premise of lets see Howell play against an easier D line for a change and see what happens.

 

I get the vibe listening to reporters, and my own observations from the one practice I watched, that Howell isn't having a totally smooth camp.  Not great.  Not bad.  But somewhere in between.  But there is some context to that considering the top defense he faces every day.  Brissett has it much easier playing the 2nd team defense.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[wit33]

Backyard football abilities I project are a must for Howell to reach QB competence. It’s also a skill that seems hard to quantify or place value on during this part of the football season. This stage of the off season seems to be all about mastering the offense (knowing correct terminology, making reads, rhythm with teammates, footwork— boring) and fitting inside a box.

 

The ability for the QB to freely express self is reserved for when the lights come on— Well, the QBs with the guts to push the limits and not be a system dependent QB.
 

[Skinsinparadise]

But what if Howell is the quarterback in, say, a decade? That’s not a prediction. Far from it. But if the owner can change — something that five years ago seemed an impossibility — couldn’t a franchise in perpetual and perennial search for a steady and star signal caller finally stumble into one?

 

Wouldn’t that be something? During the 24 seasons of Daniel Snyder’s ownership, Washington started 27 different quarterbacks. Only four started at least 30 games — two seasons’ worth. From Kirk Cousins to Case Keenum, from Robert Griffin III to Garrett Gilbert (who?), that’s ingrained instability. It’s noticed by everyone in the building.

 

“Shoot, probably about year two or three, you know what I mean?” said McLaurin, the team’s top receiver. “I kind of was like — it was a little bit of a turnover at the quarterback position.”

 

Ya think? McLaurin is entering his fifth season. He has 21 career touchdown receptions. They have come from the arms of seven different quarterbacks. He has played in games started by 10 different QBs. That can’t continue if the change in ownership is to translate to a change in results on the field for a franchise that has exactly one playoff victory this century.

“Everybody knows this is a quarterback-driven league and everybody’s looking for their guy,” said McLaurin, whose next answer that isn’t thoughtful will be his first. “And if you look at the [teams] who’ve won the Super Bowl and been consistently in the playoffs, they have that guy that they’ve been relying on for some time now. Obviously, we’re still looking for that guy.”

 

Dream for a second here. What if it’s Howell? No one — not Coach Ron Rivera, not new offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, not any of the fans who have packed the stands in Ashburn during camp — can say with any degree of certainty that he will be. But if he is, so much falls into place.

 

...But it’s also factual that NFL starting quarterbacks are typically selected not only in the first round, but within the first few picks. Of the 32 NFL teams, 16 are likely to start a quarterback in 2023 who was taken in the first 10 picks in the draft. The likely starters taken after the third round: fourth-rounder Cousins in Minnesota, seventh-rounder Brock Purdy in San Francisco (where they still have Trey Lance, the third overall pick in 2021 — and Howell.

 

The economics of Howell being a success are beyond enticing. According to the sports business website Spotrac, 64 quarterbacks are signed to contracts worth more than Howell’s four-year, $4.02-million rookie deal. Fully 85 quarterbacks make more in average annual value than Howell does. If he thrives in 2023, there’d be plenty of money available in 2024 and ’25 to strengthen an already decent roster before the quarterback had to be paid.

 

...“The way I look at it is: It’s a great opportunity for me, with the position I’m in, to really compete here and be the starter of this year,” Howell said. “It’s a great opportunity for me to go out there and just show what I can do. I know if I go out there on the field and play the type of football that I think I can play, everything will work out for itself.”

 

Everything has not worked out for Washington at quarterback since … well, just about forever. There have been flashes. There has more frequently been either controversy, misery or some combination of the two.

Sam Howell could solve that. There’s no way to tell, at the moment, whether he will. But at the dawn of a new era of ownership — when all the old roadblocks seem negotiable and the shackles have been removed — unfamiliar optimism can carry the day. That extends to quarterback, too.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/02/commanders-finally-dare-dream-here-comes-sam-howell/

[Warhead36]

Just don't completely suck. If he's even like the 20th best QB in the league I'd be pretty happy.

[Chris 44]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Just don't completely suck. If he's even like the 20th best QB in the league I'd be pretty happy.

Sam "just" needs to play smart this year. Its obvious he has the physical traits already. Steer clear of turnovers, don't try to do too much, gain experience and learn. He does that he will get better at the mental aspects, he just needs to bide his time and show that he is making progress. He does this and he will start next year and continue to get better. I honestly feel that the only way he will truly suck is if he does not play smart. Oh yeah, don't get hurt.

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am assuming his job is safe.  But on the off chance he's on notice in some way...

 

Maybe its just the premise of lets see Howell play against an easier D line for a change and see what happens.

 

I get the vibe listening to reporters, and my own observations from the one practice I watched, that Howell isn't having a totally smooth camp.  Not great.  Not bad.  But somewhere in between.  But there is some context to that considering the top defense he faces every day.  Brissett has it much easier playing the 2nd team defense.

I think it’s just coach speak ‘Everyone’s competing out here - jobs are there to be won’ etc etc. That’s not untrue to some extent, but Howell is going to have to play himself out of the job. Unless he implodes (or gets hurt) he’s the opening day starter and I think he will have a pretty long leash.

 

The team need to find out if he can be ‘the guy’ - he’s going to be given every opportunity to demonstrate he (hopefully) is. 
 

On his performance in camp - he’s a young QB on an offense with question marks along the line with a brand new offense being installed. It’s not a huge surprise he’s been up and down a bit.

[DJHJR86]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get the vibe listening to reporters, and my own observations from the one practice I watched, that Howell isn't having a totally smooth camp.  Not great.  Not bad.

 

Eerily reminiscent of last year's training camp.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/08/07/carson-wentz-commanders-training-camp/

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Eerily reminiscent of last year's training camp.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/08/07/carson-wentz-commanders-training-camp/

I don’t think so - John Keim for example has been consistently saying the ball is not on the ground as much with the QBs this year compared to last year. Both QBs have been far more accurate.

 

But the starter is a young QB and we are installing a new system. He’s not going to look like prime Joe Montana.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Eerily reminiscent of last year's training camp.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/08/07/carson-wentz-commanders-training-camp/

 

Main difference is Howell's young, learning the ropes and at least according to Keim the ball isn't hitting the ground like it did last year with Wentz.

 

[His accuracy] is a lot better than you give him credit for, just because of the way things happen in practice,” Coach Ron Rivera said Saturday night after the team’s workout at FedEx Field. “There’s a lot of little nuances that we see and that we look at and get to review. There are some inaccuracies, but it’s nothing that we are overly concerned about.”

 

The problem, Rivera argued, is circumstantial. Wentz is still adjusting to a new scheme with new terminology and new progressions, as well as a fast group of receivers who resemble “a 4x100 track team.” Give him enough reps, Rivera said, and the offense will be good.

[wit33]

Wonder what spectrum the local reporter uses to establish an opinion whether the QB is doing below or above average, bad or good. 
 

Does it sometimes come down to two impressive throws or 8 check downs or an impressive throw on the run. What’s the matrix?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

Wonder what spectrum the local reporter uses to establish an opinion whether the QB is doing below or above average, bad or good. 
 

Does it sometimes come down to two impressive throws or 8 check downs or an impressive throw on the run. What’s the matrix?

 

From my own watchings of camp, and seeing how reporters report it -- its mostly just accuracy.  Does the QB hit the target or not?

 

I recall 2 years ago watching about 6 practices and noticing (and posted about it) how streaky hot and cold Heinicke and Fitz were.  They would look like Joe Montana then all of a sudden have a spell where they looked awful.     Kirk was fairly consistent.  So was Colt.  Impossible not to compare what you see to other QBs you've watched.

 

1 practice is too little to judge a QB, so I don't feel like i have a good handle on Howell.  He wasn't accurate that day but also as I mentioned he was under duress just about every play.

[wit33]

55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

From my own watchings of camp, and seeing how reporters report it -- its mostly just accuracy.  Does the QB hit the target or not?

 

I recall 2 years ago watching about 6 practices and noticing (and posted about it) how streaky hot and cold Heinicke and Fitz were.  They would look like Joe Montana then all of a sudden have a spell where they looked awful.     Kirk was fairly consistent.  So was Colt.  Impossible not to compare what you see to other QBs you've watched.

 

1 practice is too little to judge a QB, so I don't feel like i have a good handle on Howell.  He wasn't accurate that day but also as I mentioned he was under duress just about every play.

Accuracy is king.

 

Curious what a Rodgers or Mahomes practice maps out statistically compared to Howell.
 

Imagine if we had stats much like the season lol

[FootballZombie]

I think they are gathering as much info as they can on Howell, but if he struggles against some of the bigger and better evaluation periods, like preseason, you could certainly see a shift to Jacoby.

 

Sam is gonna have to go out there and show he can set up his protections and make the simple passes that preseason games demand.

 

[Going Commando]

Put it this way, if Ron doesn't give a healthy Sam Howell a real shot this season, then he deserves to be fired ASAP.

 

Sam Howell panning out is the one single shot that Ron keeps his job here.  There is no world where Sam gets benched and Ron stays HC.

[Hooper]

I'm more worried about Eric B than Howell. Has a ton to prove IMO. So far all we know for sure is that he yells a lot. I get why we hired him, but there's a scenario where he's a disaster. He has been before. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Hooper

[wit33]

19 minutes ago, Hooper said:

I'm more worried about Eric B than Howell. Has a ton to prove IMO. So far all we know for sure is that he yells a lot. I get why we hired him, but there's a scenario where he's a disaster. He has been before. 

For sure, it’s not a slam dunk the Reid influenced offense works. 
 

Not to say this isn’t the case for many offenses, but many times where I watch a Reid led offense struggle, then Mcnabb or Mahomes make a few great plays through playmaking to save the day. 
 

My belief in the dink and dunk scheme heavily influenced by west coast that Reid employs the QB MUST be given supreme power to create and play make. If the power of the QB is governed or harnessed in any way the offense can struggle. 

[KDawg]

This fanbase has literally lost its collective mind.

 

What amounts to a rookie QB is having a medium camp against what is supposedly one of the best defenses in the league and has no OL and we are already beginning to turn on the guy. Surreal. 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

This fanbase has literally lost its collective mind.

 

What amounts to a rookie QB is having a medium camp against what is supposedly one of the best defenses in the league and has no OL and we are already beginning to turn on the guy. Surreal. 

I’m not really seeing people turn on him. People want to believe. I’m more so seeing people question more and more if he’s able to succeed, if he’s even been set up to succeed. Almost exclusively because of the OL. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’m not really seeing people turn on him. People want to believe. I’m more so seeing people question more and more if he’s able to succeed, if he’s even been set up to succeed. Almost exclusively because of the OL. 

It’s starting. Media is stirring the pot and people are starting.

 

We’ll see if it continues. I think he’ll shut them up. But it’s beginning.