The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Chump Bailey]

I know we're not too keen on any 'project' type QB's this draft but Syracuse's Garrett Shrader & Purdue's Aidan O'Connell seem interesting to me. 

[TMK9973]

5 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

When you say Top 5 QB, do you mean the entire league? So go after Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, and Lamar Jackson? Noble strategy, but it appears none are available. Even Jackson, there seems to be a 99.9% chance he is franchised.

Yes. That is exactly what I mean.

Call em up, see if anyone is interested in a major trade.

This is assuming you can even Resign TH.

 

If Rivera stays and I'm TH I go to anyone who would give me a honest chance to play, even as a backup, and not look for a excuse to pull me.

 

If that happens then you need to look at a Jimmy G, Carr, or Mayfield.

[justice98]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It’s not any of that. It’s that we’ve seen 7th rounders come in and play successfully this year. The fifth round stuff just doesn’t hold weight. Especially considering what Howell was considered to be prior to his junior year when he… played arguably better.

 

We've seen A guy do it and even then, in an extremely small sample size though.  And he's got Kyle Shanahan coaching him up, there's only one of him and we dont have a guy like that. There's just not enough evidence Purdy can sustain this level of play over the long term.  Gardner Minshew started out looking pretty good, then eventually people figure out he's more backup than starter.

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

We could have kept our two 3rd rounders and had Kenny Pickett at 16. But small hands and all that.....

I know right, so frustrating.  And the money we just spent on Wentz could've went towards Payne extension or rollover to 23. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, TMK9973 said:

If Rivera stays and I'm TH I go to anyone who would give me a honest chance to play, even as a backup, and not look for an excuse to pull me.

Every head coach will be looking for excuses to pull him and they won’t have to look hard.

 

Of all the weird allegiances the QB purgatory we reside in breeds, Heinicke easily takes the cake.  I know it’s not just you, I heard the chants yesterday.  I understand it’s related to our record with him at the helm.  But as someone who watched every game he’s played, and absorbed a ton of analysis after each game, it’s mind boggling to me the fixation our fanbase has on him.  I totally get why folks like him and his story on a personal level, but I’ll never understand the glorification of his actual play on the field.

[justice98]

13 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Yes. That is exactly what I mean.

Call em up, see if anyone is interested in a major trade.

This is assuming you can even Resign TH.

 

If Rivera stays and I'm TH I go to anyone who would give me a honest chance to play, even as a backup, and not look for a excuse to pull me.

 

If that happens then you need to look at a Jimmy G, Carr, or Mayfield.

 

Mayfield gonna mess around and dupe somebody into giving him another crack.

 

[goskins10]

11 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Yes. That is exactly what I mean.

Call em up, see if anyone is interested in a major trade.

This is assuming you can even Resign TH.

 

If Rivera stays and I'm TH I go to anyone who would give me a honest chance to play, even as a backup, and not look for a excuse to pull me.

 

If that happens then you need to look at a Jimmy G, Carr, or Mayfield.

 

I am sorry, but you think TH has a reason to be pissed at Ron R just becasue Wentz ALSO **** the bed? TH is lucky to be in the NFL. Ron R and Scott T were the ones who felt they could get some NFL miliage out of him. And they miraculously got some wins with thed guy despite his clear weaknesses. 

 

He needs to take the best offer for him and his family but to say Ron was looking for a reason to pull him when most other NFL HCs would not have even had him on the roster so he should leave no matter what as some kind of revenge is crazy talk. He had no choice. I would have put in Howell but I get the Wentz decision. The decision blew up but it was no slight to TH. Again, that's just crazy talk. 

[TMK9973]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Every head coach will be looking for excuses to pull him and they won’t have to look hard.

 

Of all the weird allegiances the QB purgatory we reside in breeds, Heinicke easily takes the cake.  I know it’s not just you, I heard the chants yesterday.  I understand it’s related to our record with him at the helm.  But as someone who watched every game he’s played, and absorbed a ton of analysis after each game, it’s mind boggling to me the fixation our fanbase has on him.  I totally get why folks like him and his story on a personal level, but I’ll never understand the glorification of his actual play on the field.

 I have watched every snap he has taken and every snap he hasn't taken with this team.

He is not great. He will not be single handed taking us to the promise land.

 

But the analytics are flat wrong. Wentz arm strength, build, etc meet nothing. He was 2-5.

 

TH doesn't have what is on paper but there was not a game he played where they looked as bad as they did yesterday!

 

In fact, the team being so bad yesterday shows your how important TH actual was to their success.

 

It was the same coaching. The same OL, the same Defense and it was the worst performance since, well, since the last game Wentz started.

 

With the season on the line, looking at the 6 games Wentz had started vs the 9 TH had started, 90% of the NFL coaches would have started TH and the 10% that would have gone Wetnz, would have made a change in the 3rd qtr.

 

TH will get offers to be a backup with the promise that if he goes in and wins, they won't make a change simply because of a contact.

 

To be honest, anyone after yesterday who is still arguing that TH should not have started is telling you not to believe your eyes.

 

 

[KillBill26]

32 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

32 NFL GMs passed Tom Brady five times, Dak Prescott four times and Jalen Hurts once

In hindsight, it's amazing.  

 

So is the fact that while Brady was riding the pine behind Bledsoe his rookie year, expectations for him (as a 6th round pick) were lower than the expectations people had for EJ Manuel, Christian Ponder, Kyle Boller, and all the other 1st round QBs who eventually flamed out.  Crazy to think about now considering Brady is the GOAT.

 

That's what I alluding to when I said expectations for Richardson, if we drafted him in the 1st, would be higher, and in turn the temptation/pressure to start an obviously raw QB before he was ready would be higher, than a 5th round sam Howell, no matter where anyone personally feels Howell deserved to be drafted.

[TMK9973]

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am sorry, but you think TH has a reason to be pissed at Ron R just becasue Wentz ALSO **** the bed? TH is lucky to be in the NFL. Ron R and Scott T were the ones who felt they could get some NFL miliage out of him. And they miraculously got some wins with thed guy despite his clear weaknesses. 

 

He needs to take the best offer for him and his family but to say Ron was looking for a reason to pull him when most other NFL HCs would not have even had him on the roster so he should leave no matter what as some kind of revenge is crazy talk. He had no choice. I would have put in Howell but I get the Wentz decision. The decision blew up but it was no slight to TH. Again, that's just crazy talk. 

When wentz was healthy Rivera said that whoever he picked as his QB would have his full commitment.

But after 2 turnovers (one def not his fault) against the #1 defense in the league, despite having one of his best games, he got pulled.

 

Meanwhile 3 turnovers, a terrible performance against the worst defense in the league and Wentz stayed in the game.

 

TH should be pissed at Rivera.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, TMK9973 said:

When wentz was healthy Rivera said that whoever he picked as his QB would have his full commitment.

But after 2 turnovers (one def not his fault) against the #1 defense in the league, despite having one of his best games, he got pulled.

 

Meanwhile 3 turnovers, a terrible performance against the worst defense in the league and Wentz stayed in the game.

 

TH should be pissed at Rivera.

Heinike had back to back chances against the Giants to cement his place as the starter and failed miserably both times. He is an NFL backup. And a middle of the pack backup at that. 

[ntotoro]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Heinike had back to back chances against the Giants to cement his place as the starter and failed miserably both times. He is an NFL backup. And a middle of the pack backup at that. 

 

Not to mention being unable to seal the deal on multiple occasions against the Falcons the week before that. The team won because the Falcons were inept and the Defense took advantage.

[Bigmuss1]

Any chance Howell starts this week?  It’s the only way I will watch the game 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@TMK9973 You are just further solidifying what I said.  Saying he’s not great and won’t single handedly take us to the promise land as if that makes your take rational when that’s actually an incredibly complimentary take.  Then comes the deflection - Wentz, Wentz, Wentz.  Congratulations, Wentz stinks, stank, stunk.  Then add a splash of percentages of what NFL coaches would do based on absolutely nothing.  The cherry on top, you thinking that he will dictate where he goes as a backup with the stipulation he won’t get pulled if the team wins.  
 

Sheesh.

 

I’m all for you guys that thrashed Wentz taking a victory lap today.  You were right.  He cannot be redeemed.  
 

But Wentz being awful doesn’t make Taylor Heinicke good, or as you would put it - not great.

[Bigmuss1]

Is there something mentally wrong with Howell that he cannot pick up the offense?  That’s a serious question by the way….

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

In hindsight, it's amazing.  

 

So is the fact that while Brady was riding the pine behind Bledsoe his rookie year, expectations for him (as a 6th round pick) were lower than the expectations people had for EJ Manuel, Christian Ponder, Kyle Boller, and all the other 1st round QBs who eventually flamed out.  Crazy to think about now considering Brady is the GOAT.

 

That's what I alluding to when I said expectations for Richardson, if we drafted him in the 1st, would be higher, and in turn the temptation/pressure to start an obviously raw QB before he was ready would be higher, than a 5th round sam Howell, no matter where anyone personally feels Howell deserved to be drafted.

Buffalo drafted Josh Allen who was raw as hell and they suffered for a year under his play.

 

And then it clicked. 
 

If you draft a raw player like Richardson, it’s my opinion that he needs to play and take his lumps. 
 

A more polished player that needs refinement can sit and get those small details worked in.

 

Now, playing doesn’t necessarily mean every single snap. Packages like SF with Lance works to get that guy some experience. 
 

There’s no guarantee any QB works. Or doesn’t. But you have to see them to know.

[MonkFan8]

Wentz is a statue that does not fit the offense at all. Still baffled that he's even on the team let alone given a start with the playoffs on the line. Heinicke is a backup at best, but clearly the better QB for this offense. What a sad state of affairs (par for the course). 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Bigmuss1 said:

Is there something mentally wrong with Howell that he cannot pick up the offense?  That’s a serious question by the way….

Why do you say that he can’t pick up the offense?

[ntotoro]

1 minute ago, MonkFan8 said:

Wentz is a statue that does not fit the offense at all. Still baffled that he's even on the team let alone given a start with the playoffs on the line. Heinicke is a backup at best, but clearly the better QB for this offense. What a sad state of affairs (par for the course). 

 

Truly sad. It's like comparing two forms of VD and saying which is less bad.

[TMK9973]

16 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Heinike had back to back chances against the Giants to cement his place as the starter and failed miserably both times. He is an NFL backup. And a middle of the pack backup at that. 

Just to be clear.

His "failure" in both games included a 101 and a 98 QBR against a 9-6 team fighting for playoffs that included two game tying drives of over 80 yards in the final 2 mins (one of which didn't punch it in do to a bad call)

Vs Wentz, what was it? 38 QBR against a 6-10 team playing out the string.

Even not playing 20/20 hindsight most of Wentz games to start the year were not as good as TH "Blown games"

 

Again, not arguing TH is a top 10, or even top 20 qb.

 

But anyone who has eyes and not just going on "analytics" knew that TH gave the team a better chance to win going into the game. And even if you thought Wentz could come out strong, by the 1st drive in the 3rd qtr it was painfully clear that TH was the teams only chance va leaving Wentz in there. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by TMK9973
Typos

[Bigmuss1]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Why do you say that he can’t pick up the offense?

Pure speculation - please tell me he’s not seeing the field because the other two are just flat out better….

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Bigmuss1 said:

Pure speculation - please tell me he’s not seeing the field because the other two are just flat out better….

Ah. Could be.

[TMK9973]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@TMK9973 You are just further solidifying what I said.  Saying he’s not great and won’t single handedly take us to the promise land as if that makes your take rational when that’s actually an incredibly complimentary take.  Then comes the deflection - Wentz, Wentz, Wentz.  Congratulations, Wentz stinks, stank, stunk.  Then add a splash of percentages of what NFL coaches would do based on absolutely nothing.  The cherry on top, you thinking that he will dictate where he goes as a backup with the stipulation he won’t get pulled if the team wins.  
 

Sheesh.

 

I’m all for you guys that thrashed Wentz taking a victory lap today.  You were right.  He cannot be redeemed.  
 

But Wentz being awful doesn’t make Taylor Heinicke good, or as you would put it - not great.

But it does mean that TH was the best chance to win yesterday.

And I know you wm fall back in "we lose with TH as well" but that is based on ignoring that TH never looked that bad and ignoring that TH never lost to a non playoff team this year.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Start Sam this week and if we keep Rivera, TH is not back anyway.

[mojo]

20 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Heinike had back to back chances against the Giants to cement his place as the starter and failed miserably both times. He is an NFL backup. And a middle of the pack backup at that. 

Last 4 games, Heinicke 7 TDs 2 interceptions 100 QB w/ arguably the worst O line and play calling in the league. 

[FootballZombie]

Can't wait for us to let TH walk.

 

Dude was not just bad, but historically bad...

 

Limit your playbook bad

Ranked 60 something on PFF bad

2nd worst in the low red zone since the year 2000 bad

Couldn't even adjust your gameplan to include more passing vs the #1 rush D bad.

 

Man was a walking abomination to the position. Only chance he gave you is whatever the rest of the team brought to the table. TH gets you as far as the team drags you and not an inch further.