The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, CobraCommander said:

You mean in the first round or just in the draft somewhere?

Depth of the draft and draft position largely determines that. Where has using firsts on DL gotten us?  

 

The year we properly went after a QB we grossly overpaid to move up and then drafted a 2nd QB IN THE SAME draft. And then the 2nd one is decent yet let him leave for nothing. You almost cannot screw up any worse than that.

[SkinsFTW]

36 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Depth of the draft and draft position largely determines that. Where has using firsts on DL gotten us?  

 

The year we properly went after a QB we grossly overpaid to move up and then drafted a 2nd QB IN THE SAME draft. And then the 2nd one is decent yet let him leave for nothing. You almost cannot screw up any worse than that.

 

And all they had to do was keep playing Beck and lose a couple more games to get Luck. Some of us were all for that scenario. The rest thought it was a good deal to pick RG3acl's for 3 firsts. 

 

But we "coulda been a contenda!!!"  

[RandyHolt]

Now I am pissed. We belabor every year about having to take BPA vs need. If you go BPA and end up with too many players at a certain position you have to trade them otherwise they are riding the pine too much and won't reach peak value. Or just walk as a free agent because the team cannot over commit too much money to a rotational piece.  All as the organization sinks to new lows year after year.

[goskins10]

37 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

To think there is no talent to be had in the 10-17 range is part of the problem.

 

Give me the 1st pick this year and I’ll turn it into 3 starting lineman and a starting CB prospect. 
I would redo Wentz contract, drop his number in half. Sign a couple of LB in FA.

 

This is how we move forward. Blowing the whole thing up again is just wasting more time. The big difference is not letting Ron pick anything.

 

 

And we would be still stuck in pergatory again and for the forseeable future. And I never said you could not find talent - I specifically said not transformational talent. You can get "very good" players and again I stated that very clearly. And yes every once in a whle you hit someone who is the top at thier postion. But what you described is exactly what I said in terms of talent. Good solid players but nothing transformational. 

 

And the part that every one of the people with your arguement completely ignores is you have to have someone trade with you. Several times the team has wanted to move down but people are not willing to give up what the pick is worth. But I digress. 

 

As for resigning Wentz, with all due respect that is ridiculous. I said before that is the worst possible outcome. For me, right from the very beginning, the biggest benifit of the trade for him was the team could walk away after a year if he didn't work out. Yea, the oline is ****. But Carsons' demons have shown themselves even when he has had protection. I did not like the trade but then warmed up to it even getting hopeful Carson could be the guy. I liked his numbers and he has that rifle for an arm that was despertately missing from TH. And most imporrtantly as I said, they can walk away after 1 season and sell out for the QB they want in what appears to be a much better draft for QBs than last year was. It's celar to me he is done. Yea, he has a bunch of yds. But he makes poor decisions when it matters most. Add to that he starts very slow - like the offense stinks to high heaven the first half and it's time to move on. Any plan that includes Carson Wentz next year, unless he makes some magical and historic turn around is doomed to failure. That entire front office and coaching staff need to be shown the door. 

 

We have never actually blown the whole thing up. Not ever under Dan. Closest was Marty and a little bit under Joe. But niether was a true blow it up and rebuild. I would like to see us actually blow it all up for real, just once. Get rid of everyone and make all players available. Hire a true GM and let him hire a coach and they can build a team together, from scratch. Yes, there is some talent on this team but right now it shows no cohesion, no identity.  

 

I realize he will go out tomorrow and likely light the Bears up for 400 yds and a few TDs. However, it's ****ing the Bears. They are the one team that is probably worse than us, well maybe also the Panthers. But the bears are aweful. They should beat them. But to me it will be fools gold unless he can start a string of good games. 

 

I would be getting Howell ready for the following game after the minibye no matter how Carson plays against the bears. But that's not going to happen. He will have as good game and everyone on the team will declare it fixed. And so it goes under danny boys ownership. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

To think there is no talent to be had in the 10-17 range is part of the problem.

 

Give me the 1st pick this year and I’ll turn it into 3 starting lineman and a starting CB prospect. 
I would redo Wentz contract, drop his number in half. Sign a couple of LB in FA.

 

This is how we move forward. Blowing the whole thing up again is just wasting more time. The big difference is not letting Ron pick anything.

[RandyHolt]

Sure the OL got wrecked and that is crushing the offense and Wentz in particular but do think we overpaid for him out of desperation. I would have loved to see Indy have to release him instead of us paying to make their headache go away. 3rd team in 3 years are huge red flags even to fantasy managers. I find solace in knowing the picks used on Wentz would have been used on Alabama DL who just end up rotational players and then walk for nothing since we cannot overpay at the position we continually overdraft.

 

I think Wentz is on the clock and not sure how many crappy games he has left. The first thing that comes to mind is usually the correct one in ones mind and Ron blamed Wentz for our issues. Turner is a factor but not in Rons eyes. Ron is clearly a mess right now so that will likely buy Wentz an extra ****ty half or a left handed INT.  I don't think he will remain starter for the entire year and its fine regardless if Ron wants to address no pass pro by trying a more mobile QB. And lick his wounds and limit the snaps to get a better pick.

Edited October 13, 2022 by RandyHolt

[DJHJR86]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34778123/washington-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-claims-dirt-nfl-owners-roger-goodell

 

The least surprising thing ever written.  With regards to the QB:

"Current and former team executives say Snyder is still far more involved running the club than most realize, imploring football decision-makers last March to trade for quarterback Carson Wentz -- despite a deal he made with Goodell in July 2021, when he was also fined $10 million, to give up day-to-day management to his wife, Tanya."

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34778123/washington-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-claims-dirt-nfl-owners-roger-goodell

 

The least surprising thing ever written.  With regards to the QB:

"Current and former team executives say Snyder is still far more involved running the club than most realize, imploring football decision-makers last March to trade for quarterback Carson Wentz -- despite a deal he made with Goodell in July 2021, when he was also fined $10 million, to give up day-to-day management to his wife, Tanya."

 

Yep.  I buy it 100%.  For one reason -- John Keim is their Washington source for the article.  John is one of the more conservative least flame throwing reporters who cover this team -- especially with Dan.  As Cooley liked to joke once, Keim is almost never wrong because some reporters go with 1-2 sources but Keim won't say it unless he has 7 sources.

[RandyHolt]

32 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34778123/washington-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-claims-dirt-nfl-owners-roger-goodell

 

The least surprising thing ever written.  With regards to the QB:

"Current and former team executives say Snyder is still far more involved running the club than most realize, imploring football decision-makers last March to trade for quarterback Carson Wentz -- despite a deal he made with Goodell in July 2021, when he was also fined $10 million, to give up day-to-day management to his wife, Tanya."

 

You just know Dan became enamored with Carson when he broke a few tackles in the pocket and emerged out of no where to break our backs that one game vs Philly long ago.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Snyder has for years told people close to him that both a new stadium and a true franchise quarterback are silver bullets. "All my problems will be solved if I can just get a marquee quarterback," he told an associate last winter. This past March, Washington traded second-, third-, and conditional third-round picks to the Colts for Carson Wentz, a quarterback who in 2017 appeared to be on the verge of being a superstar but whose fortunes have since sunk. It was a stiff price for a soft-market quarterback -- all familiar marks of Snyder's penchant for overpaying and negotiating against only himself. Sources familiar with the deal say that it was Snyder who pushed for Wentz -- and Commanders football staffers have told people around the league as much. "It was 100% a Dan move," says a source with knowledge of the inner workings of the deal. But in the team's statement to ESPN, Rivera insisted that he had brought the idea of acquiring Wentz to Dan and Tanya, who supported it. "They love this game and this team," Rivera said.

Hearing that Snyder hopes a marquee quarterback will chase away all his problems, an owner laughed: "Carson Wentz?"

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34778123/washington-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-claims-dirt-nfl-owners-roger-goodell

[CommanderInTheRye]

Right bicep tendon injury for Wentz.

 

With his future as an NFL starter clearly on the line this season, and his coach one day pointing to quarterback as the reason for the team's poor record and the next day doing a public "I was misconstrued"/mea culpa he intends to gut it out.

 

We shall see how effective he will be.

 

.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[DJHJR86]

At least this gives Rivera an excuse to bench him if he struggles.  

[Riggodrill44]

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

And we would be still stuck in pergatory again and for the forseeable future. And I never said you could not find talent - I specifically said not transformational talent. You can get "very good" players and again I stated that very clearly. And yes every once in a whle you hit someone who is the top at thier postion. But what you described is exactly what I said in terms of talent. Good solid players but nothing transformational. 

 

And the part that every one of the people with your arguement completely ignores is you have to have someone trade with you. Several times the team has wanted to move down but people are not willing to give up what the pick is worth. But I digress. 

 

As for resigning Wentz, with all due respect that is ridiculous. I said before that is the worst possible outcome. For me, right from the very beginning, the biggest benifit of the trade for him was the team could walk away after a year if he didn't work out. Yea, the oline is ****. But Carsons' demons have shown themselves even when he has had protection. I did not like the trade but then warmed up to it even getting hopeful Carson could be the guy. I liked his numbers and he has that rifle for an arm that was despertately missing from TH. And most imporrtantly as I said, they can walk away after 1 season and sell out for the QB they want in what appears to be a much better draft for QBs than last year was. It's celar to me he is done. Yea, he has a bunch of yds. But he makes poor decisions when it matters most. Add to that he starts very slow - like the offense stinks to high heaven the first half and it's time to move on. Any plan that includes Carson Wentz next year, unless he makes some magical and historic turn around is doomed to failure. That entire front office and coaching staff need to be shown the door. 

 

We have never actually blown the whole thing up. Not ever under Dan. Closest was Marty and a little bit under Joe. But niether was a true blow it up and rebuild. I would like to see us actually blow it all up for real, just once. Get rid of everyone and make all players available. Hire a true GM and let him hire a coach and they can build a team together, from scratch. Yes, there is some talent on this team but right now it shows no cohesion, no identity.  

 

I realize he will go out tomorrow and likely light the Bears up for 400 yds and a few TDs. However, it's ****ing the Bears. They are the one team that is probably worse than us, well maybe also the Panthers. But the bears are aweful. They should beat them. But to me it will be fools gold unless he can start a string of good games. 

 

I would be getting Howell ready for the following game after the minibye no matter how Carson plays against the bears. But that's not going to happen. He will have as good game and everyone on the team will declare it fixed. And so it goes under danny boys ownership. 

So you think if we just had that 1 QB like Peyton manning it would fix 30 years of dysfunction?

 

We need to build the team the right way. We need to lose the right way. When Ron got here, he said all the right things about team building. Then he abandoned them in 4-5 weeks, this is where we are. We need to add talent especially on the lines and secondary. Qb isn’t fixing those holes.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34778123/washington-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-claims-dirt-nfl-owners-roger-goodell

 

The least surprising thing ever written.  With regards to the QB:

"Current and former team executives say Snyder is still far more involved running the club than most realize, imploring football decision-makers last March to trade for quarterback Carson Wentz -- despite a deal he made with Goodell in July 2021, when he was also fined $10 million, to give up day-to-day management to his wife, Tanya."

I know this is awful to say because it's not his fault he was traded here, but this kind of makes me be OK if Wentz doesn't do well.

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

At least this gives Rivera an excuse to bench him if he struggles.  

Question is...Who comes off the bench??

[DJHJR86]

3 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Question is...Who comes off the bench??

 

Depends on if Howell is active or not.  

[bowhunter]

38 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Depends on if Howell is active or not.  

Yep exactly. I'm assuming Sam is running the scout team and has minimal prep. I hope that changes soon however

[RandyHolt]

12 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Yep exactly. I'm assuming Sam is running the scout team and has minimal prep. I hope that changes soon however

I would say no way its Howell coming off the bench active or not esp with our OL in shambles.

 

NFL coaches go with the vet if they have one and its Heiny. I would be stunned to see Heiny just designated permanent backup status.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by RandyHolt

[NoCalMike]

Oh man you just know they are shooting up Wentz with all sorts of painkillers and numbing meds so he can play tonight.  One of Wentz's strengths is his arm, so the prospect of him not being able to throw the deep ball or have a ton of velocity on his throws is not promising.  Maybe the strain is very minor going into the game, but playing with it can't be good for it either.

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Will Jackson had a "back". Wentz now has a bicep. Color me skeptical when I say that we should trust everything the leagues most dysfunctional organization for the past 2+ decades says.

 

Opening a door to yank an ineffective Carson and blame the injury to controversy?  Maybe Ron will yank him to piss off Dannyboy - timing would be perfect to say he wasn't my guy to start with get fired and cash out of this ****hole organization.

 

Tanya can move down to the sideline to run the team like Jerruh did. Or maybe that was George McPee and the Caps.

Edited October 13, 2022 by RandyHolt

[ThomasRoane]

7 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34778123/washington-commanders-owner-dan-snyder-claims-dirt-nfl-owners-roger-goodell

 

The least surprising thing ever written.  With regards to the QB:

"Current and former team executives say Snyder is still far more involved running the club than most realize, imploring football decision-makers last March to trade for quarterback Carson Wentz -- despite a deal he made with Goodell in July 2021, when he was also fined $10 million, to give up day-to-day management to his wife, Tanya."

 

I knew the Wentz signing smelled like Sleezy Snyder!!!  Every stupid QB mistake made in the past has his stench all over it.  The only hope for any success is to hope the owners "do the right thing" and kick Snyder out of the herd!

[Koolblue13]

[wit33]

The dude isn’t a bad QB, must play hardball with the cap moving forward relating to his contract and he’ll have to transition to his job not being guaranteed moving forward. 
 

I’d 100% be okay with Wentz at 12-15mil with performance escalators for next two seasons while hunting for the next great QB. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by wit33

[Riggodrill44]

18 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

And we would be still stuck in pergatory again and for the forseeable future. And I never said you could not find talent - I specifically said not transformational talent. You can get "very good" players and again I stated that very clearly. And yes every once in a whle you hit someone who is the top at thier postion. But what you described is exactly what I said in terms of talent. Good solid players but nothing transformational. 

 

And the part that every one of the people with your arguement completely ignores is you have to have someone trade with you. Several times the team has wanted to move down but people are not willing to give up what the pick is worth. But I digress. 

 

As for resigning Wentz, with all due respect that is ridiculous. I said before that is the worst possible outcome. For me, right from the very beginning, the biggest benifit of the trade for him was the team could walk away after a year if he didn't work out. Yea, the oline is ****. But Carsons' demons have shown themselves even when he has had protection. I did not like the trade but then warmed up to it even getting hopeful Carson could be the guy. I liked his numbers and he has that rifle for an arm that was despertately missing from TH. And most imporrtantly as I said, they can walk away after 1 season and sell out for the QB they want in what appears to be a much better draft for QBs than last year was. It's celar to me he is done. Yea, he has a bunch of yds. But he makes poor decisions when it matters most. Add to that he starts very slow - like the offense stinks to high heaven the first half and it's time to move on. Any plan that includes Carson Wentz next year, unless he makes some magical and historic turn around is doomed to failure. That entire front office and coaching staff need to be shown the door. 

 

We have never actually blown the whole thing up. Not ever under Dan. Closest was Marty and a little bit under Joe. But niether was a true blow it up and rebuild. I would like to see us actually blow it all up for real, just once. Get rid of everyone and make all players available. Hire a true GM and let him hire a coach and they can build a team together, from scratch. Yes, there is some talent on this team but right now it shows no cohesion, no identity.  

 

I realize he will go out tomorrow and likely light the Bears up for 400 yds and a few TDs. However, it's ****ing the Bears. They are the one team that is probably worse than us, well maybe also the Panthers. But the bears are aweful. They should beat them. But to me it will be fools gold unless he can start a string of good games. 

 

I would be getting Howell ready for the following game after the minibye no matter how Carson plays against the bears. But that's not going to happen. He will have as good game and everyone on the team will declare it fixed. And so it goes under danny boys ownership. 

If I’m understanding you, you’re hoping that Wentz doesn’t play outstanding football , so we can move on to our next QB, is that right?

Instead of helping the QB we have let’s actively sabotage him so we can get a better draft pick.

I mean I’ve seen this franchise do this to several QB over the years. Didn’t work then, it’s not going to work now.

Cant we do this better this time?

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: