The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[philibusters]

Howell is fairly young.  He is 27 months younger than Kenny Pickett, 20 months younger than Matt Corral, 16 months younger than Malik Willis, and 13 months younger than Desmond Ridder.   So he is at least a year younger than the other top 5 QB picks from this draft.  Howell only played three years in college (granted he was the starter for all three seasons so he does have game seasoning).   But Howell just needs to develop.  Hopefully going into next year he is the backup.   

Wentz's contract works out that he is under contract for three more years, but only has guaranteed money this year.  That said, despite not having guaranteed money next year, I think it would be a pretty big surprise if he is not the starter next year.   It will be interesting if we extend him this offseason.  The advantage of extending him is that you can free up some cap room.  The downside to extending him is you are going to have to give him guaranteed money, so that if you wanted to move on to Howell in 2024, that is a lot harder if you gave Wentz an extension in 2023, so not extending leaves you flexible, but extending him could free up some immediate cap room.

Edited September 1, 2022 by philibusters

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Heinicke will be gone after this year.  But what if Wentz doesn't work out?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not saying I don't think Howell could eventually be the guy.  Local reporters and the head coach have made it abundantly clear that that is a ways away, however.  

 

 

If Wentz doesn't work out they'll have a few options:

 

They think Howell could be the guy so they roll with him.

Draft a QB in the 1st if they really like a guy...might cost a bunch to move up depending on our record.

Try and trade for an established QB again.

 

I guess it depends on how we define Wentz not working out. Obviously if he completely bombs or gets seriously injured we won't roll with him, but what if he's decent but not great? We'd have to decide whether he was good enough to extend or not.

 

[HigSkin]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sam-howell-washington-commanders-preseason/

 

Impressive wouldn’t be a strong enough word to illustrate QB Sam Howell’s preseason slate. In fact, some would say it was expected if you studied him at North Carolina. 

 

A fifth-round rookie and third quarterback on the Washington Commanders’ depth chart, Howell’s trio of performances this summer showcased a talent the burgundy gold should feel awfully confident about as they enter 2022.

 

A quarterback whose 2021 production—in my mind—provided a true window into the talent he was in the year prior with the slew of NFL talent around him, Howell’s ability to carry the Tar Heels last fall showcased a gamer that competes his tail off no matter the situation around him. 

 

Long story short, a Ron Rivera guy.

 

 

The NFL’s preseason leader in passing yards, while it was the preseason and it must be taken with a grain of salt, Howell was excellent in the significant amount of time that he saw in three outings. 

 

In an NFL debut that saw him provide a jolt of energy into the Commanders’ offense during the second half of their loss to the Carolina Panthers, Howell’s first impression was as good as it could possibly have been. Pumping throws into tight windows, confidence amongst chaos, creating outside of structure with his legs, Howell looked the part in leading an offense—an uncommon sight in the nation’s capital. 

 

Look, I get it, his success during three games came against opposing teams’ second and third-string defenders, but it’s the NFL and everyone is getting paid to suit up. No, he wasn’t throwing against Jaycee Horn against Carolina or lofting nine balls down the boundary against Marlon Humphrey, Marcus Peters, and Marcus Williams in Baltimore, but you produce against the 11 in front of you, and Howell did that—and then some.

 

 

 

It’s throws like this that get you excited—outside the numbers to a spot only his guy has a chance is textbook quarterbacking. A lot of the time, we see young signal-callers enter the league as throwers, not quarterbacks—understand that there is a definitive difference. For Howell, while he has the ability to create outside the pocket and play sandlot ball when the time calls for it, his ability to consistently sit calmly under center with unfamiliar bodies around him are key movement skills to hone in on from his performances this summer. No, it wasn’t always easy as his 60 minutes of action against Baltimore saw him get knocked around more than he would have liked to, but it’s how you bounce back after negative yardage or a missed shot play that writes the narrative for guys in the NFL. 

 

Like it was at North Carolina in 2020, it was peaches and cream when Howell was able to sit back and target Dyami Brown, Dazz Newsome, and the tandem of Javonte Williams and Michael Carter out of the backfield. But how did he perform when they were gone? Well, how’s 3,000-plus yards through the air, a 24:9 touchdown-to-interception ratio, and 828 yards and 11 touchdowns on the ground last fall? Howell modified his game to further heighten the performance ceiling of the Tar Heels’ offense in 2021, and from Washington’s standpoint, presented a quarterback whose dual-threat ability will push for snaps every single day.

 

While we won’t see Howell in uniform to start the season as Carson Wentz and Taylor Heinicke take hold of the reins of Scott Turner’s offense, waiting in the wings is a player that looked every bit of a talent to watch moving down the line.

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Of course, Ron is gonna say that TH is our backup QB. It protects Howell, it supports Wentz, and it satisfies TH.

 

Howell is gonna take TH’s before midpoint in the season.

 

We finally drafted a QB that could be a legit starter in this league and a lot of you are scared to play him? Come on, now. Put the man out there as QB 2 and let him get some live bullets. I will live with the mistakes. 

Unless Wentz gets hurt, I don't think, no matter what, we hear about TH or Howell again until after our season is over in mid-February.  

 

Also, Howell is about to start running the scout team and not even getting backup reps.

 

There is absolutely no way in November, Ron flips Howell and TH if Wentz is healthy.  None.  Nada.  Not going to happen.  It would create a story where there wasn't one.  With multiple angles.  And the idiotic Thom Lovero's (aka squeaky) would squeak on and on about how this means Rivera is getting ready to replace Wentz with Howell.  Our media market is such **** that there is no way Ron would do it.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

I guess it depends on how we define Wentz not working out. Obviously if he completely bombs or gets seriously injured we won't roll with him, but what if he's decent but not great? We'd have to decide whether he was good enough to extend or not.

 

We have at least 2 seasons before you need to decide whether to extend him or not, and 3 seasons in total on his contract.

 

I quantify it this way:

- If he's approximately the same as last year or better he stays no matter what.  

- If he is somewhere less than last year, but not awful, let's say, 25 TDs, 12 INTs, 3400 yards, team goes 6-11...  THAT's the tough call.  You'd have to look into the "why" a bit more.  Was it just him?  Were there massive OL injuries and he was under duress all the time?  Did the WRs all get hurt?  Both?  None?  If "none" then you have to move on.  If "both" then you have to try again.  

- If he's just terrible, like 2020 terrible, then it's a "gots to go" situation.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

 

This is the type of throw which opens up the entire field.  This is the type of throw a franchise QB in the NFL has to be able to make, and make consistently.

 

This is the type of throw only Haskins of our QBs from 2019-2021 even had the ability to make.  Case Keenum, Colt McCoy, Peg-Leg Alex Smith, Fitz, Kyle Allen, Taylor Heinicke, Gilbert, and I might be forgetting one.  None of them could make that throw consistently.  Not even Fitz or Keenum, both of whom had started in the league.  ** Alex BEFORE leg injury could make the throw.  After, he couldn't.  

 

We now have 2 guys on our team who can make that throw, Wentz and Howell.  

 

What does that mean in the end?  It means the entire playbook and field is open.  You don't have to shrink it down to a shoebox because of physical limitations. Beyond that, who knows. 

[Darth Tater]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

If Wentz doesn't work out they'll have a few options:

 

They think Howell could be the guy so they roll with him.

Draft a QB in the 1st if they really like a guy...might cost a bunch to move up depending on our record.

Try and trade for an established QB again.

 

I guess it depends on how we define Wentz not working out. Obviously if he completely bombs or gets seriously injured we won't roll with him, but what if he's decent but not great? We'd have to decide whether he was good enough to extend or not.

 

If Wentz is a fail, we will probably be in the coaching market in 2023.  If he is a fail, I don't see the defense bailing us out to at least a 9-10 win season minimum that Ron needs to keep his job (7 or 8 might but more because we can't find a new HC).                                                                                                                                                                                                            

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Unless Wentz gets hurt, I don't think, no matter what, we hear about TH or Howell again until after our season is over in mid-February.  

 

Also, Howell is about to start running the scout team and not even getting backup reps.

 

There is absolutely no way in November, Ron flips Howell and TH if Wentz is healthy.  None.  Nada.  Not going to happen.  It would create a story where there wasn't one.  With multiple angles.  And the idiotic Thom Lovero's (aka squeaky) would squeak on and on about how this means Rivera is getting ready to replace Wentz with Howell.  Our media market is such **** that there is no way Ron would do it.  

TH is probably Wentz's backup if Wentz is healthy going into the game.  I also would not be surprised to see TH start if Wentz is only going to be out a game of two. If Wentz goes down for the season, TH probably plays out the current game but I think Howell would quickly become the starter.  Further, if Wentz is benched, I suspect it would be for Howell.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I understand the takes on sitting Howell. I truly do. But…players play.

 

I bet that Howell plays so well in practice that he earns the backup job and gets reps as our number 2 this season. It’s certainly okay to disagree with me. 

I liked the Wentz trade. I think he will be a big upgrade for us. At the same time, I think he will be the guy he’s always been. Solid with some frustrating games/moments.

 

I’m certainly not worried about what Wentz thinks of Howell as a backup. And I’m not worried about some storyline in the papers. And I’m one hundred percent not worried about Howell’s psyche if he takes a few hits and throws some picks. The dude is a warrior. Unflappable.

 

TLDR: I don’t think Wentz is the long term solution, and I think Howell gets reps as our backup this season (not necessarily because Wentz is awful or injured) because he will earn it.
 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I bet that Howell plays so well in practice that he earns the backup job and gets reps as our number 2 this season. It’s certainly okay to disagree with me. 

It's not that I disagree, I don't think he's going to get the opportunity.  

 

3rd team QBs run the scout team, they don't even get reps to show what they can do.  They ARE in meeting rooms, and things like that.  But the 3rd string QB doesn't really get any snaps in regular practice. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

It's not that I disagree, I don't think he's going to get the opportunity.  

 

3rd team QBs run the scout team, they don't even get reps to show what they can do.  They ARE in meeting rooms, and things like that.  But the 3rd string QB doesn't really get any snaps in regular practice. 

I understand all of that as well. 
 

But…life finds a way. We shall see.

[Voice_of_Reason]

30 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

If Wentz is a fail, we will probably be in the coaching market in 2023.  If he is a fail, I don't see the defense bailing us out to at least a 9-10 win season minimum that Ron needs to keep his job (7 or 8 might but more because we can't find a new HC).                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Absent a 3-4 win season, Ron's job is not in jeopardy.  There might be changes made to the coaching or front office staff with a sub-par season, but Ron will get 4 years at minimum.

 

Jay got 6 (granted, he was fired in the 6th)

Shanahan got 4

Zorn got 2

GIbbs got 4 (and then retired again)

Spurrier got 2 (and then quit)

Marty got 1 (big mistake)

 

Dan has only fired 2 coaches with less than 4 years:  Zorn and Marty.  Which is interesting given the number of coaches he's had.  But the narrative he has a short fuse on coaches is actually not really true.  The only time it was really true was Marty in 2001.  THAT was a huge, colossal, massive mistake.  It was also 21 years ago.  

2 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I understand all of that as well. 
 

But…life finds a way. We shall see.

Yeah, I hear you.  There is a saying I use at work, "work finds the worthy." 

 

So, I totally get it.  But I think there would have to be some type of cosmic interference (ie: somebody gets hurt) in order for it to happen this year.  If Wentz doesn't get hurt, I'd assume TH won't get hurt because he's not playing, therefore the situation doesn't change.

 

If Wentz gets hurt, and misses significant time, I think you would absolutely see Howell at some point.  

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, I totally get it.  But I think there would have to be some type of cosmic interference (ie: somebody gets hurt) in order for it to happen this year.  If Wentz doesn't get hurt, I'd assume TH won't get hurt because he's not playing, therefore the situation doesn't change.

 

You again greatly underestimate the abilities of TH.

 

All that is needed is one day where he forgets his keys and locks himself out of the house and *BOOM* instant Howell QB2.

Edited September 2, 2022 by FootballZombie

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

But…life finds a way. We shall see.

 

I see your point on this one and I can see a pathway where it happens w/o injuries.

 

If at any point during a stretch in the season, Wentz provides room for doubt that he is not the QB of the future I can see the wheels on this car turning.

 

Keep in mind the threshold for doubt here is much easier to achieve as compared to: "Oh no, he is crashing and burning and must be benched." Its is instead just "he is not running away with the opportunity"

 

If coach's see the likelyhood of a Wentz-less future increase, they will need to see what Sam has and how he is developing in order to determine how viable a future he has and that will require reps in our offense. There is no way Sam can be a serious option for us next season if he only has 3 pre-season outings and a year of scout team work under his belt. They will want to get looks at the work in progress.

[Koolblue13]

Heinikie stinks of elderberries.

[Skinsinparadise]

SAM HOWELL STANDING OUT AS PART OF THE WASHINGTON COMMANDERS' FUTURE

 

By Ralph Vacchiano
FOX Sports NFC East Writer

For a change, there is no quarterback controversy in Washington. 

The Commanders are fully committed to Carson Wentz. They've invested in him financially and emotionally. He is their unquestioned starter. And last year's starter, Taylor Heinicke, is the clear No. 2.

But that's for this year.

Lurking behind both of them is a quarterback one college scout described to FOX Sports as "one of the steals of the draft," and he could end up impacting the Commanders' future plans. According to league sources, some NFL teams had a second-round grade on then-North Carolina quarterback Sam Howell before he slipped all the way to the top of the fifth round. That's when the Commanders, who weren't even looking for another QB at the time, pounced.

And this summer, they haven't been disappointed with that decision at all.

"He has a very bright future in this league," Washington coach Ron Rivera said after Howell played the entire preseason finale, a 17-15 loss in Baltimore. "He has a lot of growing to do. I know [offensive coordinator Scott Turner and quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese] will go through this with a fine-tooth comb and emphasize the things that he could've done better.

"But he was exciting to watch."

In that preseason finale, surrounded by mostly backups and players who won't make the final roster, Howell completed 24 of 35 passes for 280 yards and a touchdown. He looked like he had command of the offense and didn't seem flustered at all.

That's likely the last time anyone will see Howell in a game for a long time, though. The Commanders are Wentz's team. They made that clear when they acquired him from the Indianapolis Colts and agreed to take on his $28.3 million cap hit this season. And Rivera quickly designated Heinicke, who started 15 games for Washington last season, as the primary backup. Rivera even called Wentz on Day 3 of the NFL Draft to tell him the Howell pick was "all about developing a young guy more so than anything else."

But the question is: For when? Wentz is only 30 years old, and the Commanders are hoping he can be their starter for years to come. But he notably didn't get a contract extension when Washington traded for him, and he has no guaranteed money left in either of the final two years of his current deal after this season.

 

That means the Commanders can cut him or trade him after 2022 if they decide they want to move on. And while they could turn to Heinicke if that happens, they've already moved on from him once, and his contract ends after this year.

Who knows what would happen if the Commanders decided to switch quarterbacks again in 2023? In this era where quarterback movement seems to dominate the offseason, anything — and anyone — is possible.

But there's no doubt that Washington lucked into an intriguing future option in Howell.

 

"With his talent, he should have never lasted that long in the draft," said another NFL scout. "That happens with quarterbacks. You don't take them high if you don't need them. But he was also inconsistent [in his final year at North Carolina]. There wasn't a lot [of talent] around him, but the knock on him was that the tools were there, but he just didn't look ready."

Howell didn't exactly light up the scoreboard during the preseason for the Commanders, but he certainly looked like he belonged in the league all summer long. He finished with decent stats — 43-of-69 (62.3%), 547 yards, one touchdown and one interception, while running 13 times for 94 yards. One scout who watched him complete 24 of 35 passes for 280 yards and a touchdown against the Ravens said he looked "generally comfortable" but held the ball in the pocket a little too long at times. 

"That's something all young quarterbacks go through," the scout said.

"I think I'm pretty poised in the pocket," Howell said after the game. "But it's just going to come with more reps and work."

Unfortunately for him, the time for more work is over. With the regular season looming, Howell will be limited to mostly scout-team reps in practice, like all third-string quarterbacks. He'll be inactive on game days, too, unless Wentz or Heinicke gets hurt. And even then, there's no guarantee the Commanders won't look to sign a veteran to dress for the games instead of him.

But the door is wide open for 2023 and beyond, especially if the Commanders' risky move to acquire Wentz doesn't pay off. Had the team been looking for a quarterback on draft day, even Rivera conceded that Howell "would've been somebody we considered very seriously" in earlier rounds. To get him with the 144th overall pick in the draft, Rivera said, was "a home run for us."

 

They're just not ready to circle the bases yet. The Commanders are playing a long game with Howell, who could be anything for them from a career third-stringer, to a future backup, to their quarterback of the future. A lot of things have to happen before his future in Washington becomes clear.

But based on how Howell performed this summer and how the Commanders seem to feel about their "steal," he's clearly a nice insurance policy for the franchise.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/sam-howell-standing-out-as-part-of-the-washington-commanders-future

Edited September 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

I'm feeling good about our QB and WR rooms for the first time in a while.  We've got a mix of continuity and upside that is exciting again.  And I like our OT group well enough that I think they'll be able to sustain blocks for long developing pass plays.

 

When B Rob gets back from his wounds, the RB group will be really nice and complimentary too.  This is the best I've felt about the offense in years, and I think we will finally get some good leadership from the group and score some points this season.

 

High upside starter with several seasons of veterancy + proven back up + talented youngster in the pipeline is a good formula.  Everyone is hungry, including the coaches, who are palpably excited about the potential of this QB room.

[mhd24]

21 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I'm feeling good about our QB and WR rooms for the first time in a while.  We've got a mix of continuity and upside that is exciting again.  And I like our OT group well enough that I think they'll be able to sustain blocks for long developing pass plays.

 

When B Rob gets back from his wounds, the RB group will be really nice and complimentary too.  This is the best I've felt about the offense in years, and I think we will finally get some good leadership from the group and score some points this season.

 

High upside starter with several seasons of veterancy + proven back up + talented youngster in the pipeline is a good formula.  Everyone is hungry, including the coaches, who are palpably excited about the potential of this QB room.

 

Assuming the offense hums, next year's draft has got to focus on IOL & back 7.  Maybe Paul develops.

[DJHJR86]

18 hours ago, mistertim said:

I guess it depends on how we define Wentz not working out. Obviously if he completely bombs or gets seriously injured we won't roll with him, but what if he's decent but not great? We'd have to decide whether he was good enough to extend or not.

 

IMO, if Wentz is a complete and total failure, Rivera & Co. should be fired.  If Wentz gets the team to close to a .500 record but misses the playoffs while having the statistical season he had last year with the Colts, I'd say that buys Rivera another year but you still move on from Wentz.  Unless of course, the reason why our record is the way it is was because the defense couldn't stop a nose bleed.  I am optimistic about Howell.  Dude looks like he can play in the NFL, even if it was just against backups and nobodies.  Other quarterbacks we have drafted recently looked completely lost in the preseason.  Howell didn't.  That's a good sign.  But it's also obvious that Rivera wants to take things slowly with him.  

 

It will be interesting to see if Wentz has to miss games for a significant amount of time if they make the switch to Howell.  I would.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

IMO, if Wentz is a complete and total failure, Rivera & Co. should be fired.  If Wentz gets the team to close to a .500 record but misses the playoffs while having the statistical season he had last year with the Colts, I'd say that buys Rivera another year but you still move on from Wentz.  Unless of course, the reason why our record is the way it is was because the defense couldn't stop a nose bleed.  I am optimistic about Howell.  Dude looks like he can play in the NFL, even if it was just against backups and nobodies.  Other quarterbacks we have drafted recently looked completely lost in the preseason.  Howell didn't.  That's a good sign.  But it's also obvious that Rivera wants to take things slowly with him.  

 

It will be interesting to see if Wentz has to miss games for a significant amount of time if they make the switch to Howell.  I would.

None of this makes a lot of sense.

 

1. Ron chose Wentz because he was basically the only option on the table, other than going into the draft and probably over-drafting a rookie.  

2. If Wentz goes for 3,000+ yards, 27 TDs and 7 INTs, like he did last year, it would be the best statistical QB performance since Kirk.  You would move on from that for what? If you wanted to, you could draft a guy and still keep Wentz another year.  But that seems silly.

3. I agree that Howell looked good, but he also, at the moment, has a real tendency to stare down his primary WR.  That has to be coached out of him before he is anything more than a backup.  

 

For injury purposes, if Wentz goes down, you can basically write off the season, so at that point, assuming Howell is competent enough to run the offense, I would assume they would go with him at some point.  Though probably not immediately.  

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Heinikie stinks of elderberries.

 

This proves how little you know about elderberries. Elderberries boost your immune system. I was coming down with the common cold yesterday and I eat like 10 black elderberries gummies (total in a day and not at one time). Woke up today and feeling great and no symptoms!

 

Caution: Do not take elderberries if you have an autoimmune disease though. 

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

This proves how little you know about elderberries. Elderberries boost your immune system. I was coming down with the common cold yesterday and I eat like 10 black elderberries gummies (total in a day and not at one time). Woke up today and feeling great and no symptoms!

 

Caution: Do not take elderberries if you have an autoimmune disease though. 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Hopefully someone told wentz to stay away from waterparks this holiday weekend……

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

<The insulting Frenchman>

Your mother was a hamsters always gets me.  EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.  Most people like "I fart in your general direction."  But the hamster thing always got me.

 

I have used "go away or I [will] taunt you a second time" at work from time to time.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Hopefully someone told wentz to stay away from waterparks this holiday weekend……

??

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

??

Im referencing the rumors of Fitzmagic being seen at a water park Labor Day weekend hurting his hip on a water slide